Vilma walks out of appeal with Goodell - NFL
 

Saints linebacker Jonathan Vilma walked out of a hearing with the NFL on appeal of his year long suspension saying, "the process is not fair."

Vilma's attorney, Peter Ginsberg, says the NFL requested an adjournment to Monday afternoon, but he and Vilma refused. Ginsberg says Commissioner Roger Goodell failed to present the evidence on which he based his decision to impose the player's suspension.

Vilma says he doesn't know how he can get a fair hearing when Goodell is "judge, jury and executioner."

From WWL.com

UPDATE FROM USA TODAY - The three other suspended players Scott Fujita, Anthony Hargrove and Will Smith arrived at roughly 10 a.m. with NFLPA lawyers Tom DePaso and Richard Smith. The three players hustled past media without comment but issued a statement via email 10 minutes prior to arriving:
From USA TODAY

Saints bounties: Vilma hearing breaks up - NFL - SI.com

NEW YORK (AP) - Suspended Saints player Jonathan Vilma left an appeals hearing with NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell after about an hour Monday, denying he had a role in New Orleans' bounty program and saying the process is unfair.

The linebacker's attorney, Peter Ginsberg, said the NFL requested an adjournment to Monday afternoon, but he and Vilma refused. Ginsberg called the hearing "a sham'' and said Goodell failed to present the evidence on which he based his decision to impose Vilma's season-long suspension.

"Roger Goodell has taken three months to tear down what I built over eight years. It's tough to swallow. I have been linked to a bounty and it simply is not true,'' Vilma said.

"I don't know how I can get a fair process when he is the judge, jury and executioner. You're assuming it will be fair, but it's not.''

Three other players were scheduled to have their appeals heard Monday afternoon: Saints defensive end Will Smith, docked for four games; Green Bay defensive end Anthony Hargrove, suspended for eight games; and Cleveland linebacker Scott Fujita, set to miss three games.

Those players and Vilma all were on the Saints roster when then-defensive coordinator Gregg Williams, by his own admission, ran a pay-for-pain operation that handed out cash bonuses for big hits on targeted opponents.

Lawyers for all the players and the NFL Players Association were on hand for Monday's hearing. The union recently lost two grievances challenging Goodell's authority to hand out discipline for the bounty system.

Smith, Hargrove, and Fujita and their attorneys all arrived together. Vilma and his lawyer showed up separately.

Smith, Hargrove and Fujita issued a joint statement saying they were attending the hearing not because they were admitting to being part of the bounty program - or because they believed Goodell had the right to punish them - but because they felt the league "would attempt to publicly mischaracterize our refusal to attend.''

"Shame on the National Football League and Commissioner Goodell for being more concerned about `convicting' us publicly than being honorable and fair to men who have dedicated their professional lives to playing this game with honor,'' the three players said.

The NFL turned over evidence to the four players and the union on Friday, as required by the collective bargaining agreement. That information included some 200 pages of documents, with emails, power-point presentations, even handwritten notes, plus one video recording. But a ledger that reportedly documents payments of $1,000 for plays called "cart-offs'' and $400 for "whacks,'' as well as $100 fines for mental errors, was not in the material.

Previously, Goodell suspended Saints coach Sean Payton for the season and assistant coach Joe Vitt for six games. Saints general manager Mickey Loomis got eight games, while Williams - now with the St. Louis Rams - was suspended indefinitely.

The NFL's investigation of the Saints found Williams ran a system for three years under which payouts were set on specific opponents, including Brett Favre and Kurt Warner. The program was in effect from 2009, when New Orleans won the Super Bowl, until last season.

---

AP Sports Writer Brett Martel in New Orleans contributed to this story.

Read more: Saints bounties: Vilma hearing breaks up - NFL - SI.com

I still contend that the problem is Greg Williams. He confessed after being beat up with a phonebook that things took place, but the league cant find any evidence to support those claims...

The missing piece of all of this puzzle is "what has Greg Williams actually been telling the league to support his reinstatement."

I find it extremely difficult to believe that Greg has not steered the league on possible places they can find what they are looking for. That dude wants his career back.

It just looks like they will will be seeking justice through the courts.

Give 'em hell Jon. I wish my support was worth something dude, because I'm behind you 1000 percent.

Is it wrong for me to pray that this comes back to bite Roger in the ass in the future?

A lot of this will bite Goodell in the ass sooner or later. Kind of interested to see the blowback large or small down the road.

Hey Roger, see you in court... bring your checkbook.

I sure as hell hope this is how it plays out.

What is there to take up in the courts? Besides defamation and slander?

Stephen Burbank already upheld Goodells power to suspend as he sees fit.

I do not see any legal court deciding otherwise. The CBA gave that power to Goodell.

Yes. Very wrong. You need to pray this comes back lots sooner, and bites much more than just ass.

"We have purportedly been disciplined by the Commissioner for alleged activities that the National Football League has grossly misrepresented to the public.

We are in attendance today not because we recognize the Commissioner's jurisdiction to adjudicate regarding these specious allegations, but because we believe the League would attempt to publicly mischaracterize our refusal to attend. We will not address the substance of the NFL's case because this is not the proper venue for adjudication, and there has been no semblance of due process afforded to us.

As veteran players of 11, 9 and 9 years in this League, we are profoundly disappointed with the NFL's conduct in this matter. We know what the NFL has publicly said we did, and the Commissioner has chosen to try to punish us and disparage our characters based on semantics, not facts. Words are cheap and power is fleeting.

Shame on the National Football League and Commissioner Goodell for being more concerned about 'convicting' us publicly than being honorable and fair to men who have dedicated their professional lives to playing this game with honor."

The USA Today quote is a good one with respect to how it should be properly characterized. Goodell is digging a deeper hole for himself.

Talk about truth! Not attending and Roger would have made them to look like murderers, oh wait we're already to that point :doh:

The issue is that it makes all the difference in the world between a bounty to injure and a pay for performance.

Pay for performance would likely fall under a salary cap violation which would be handled totally differently then a bounty to injure.

What Goodell is doing is injuring everyone assoicated with the Saints from the coaching staff to the average fan.

I was born & raised in New Orleans till I joined the Navy in the 70's. I had season tickets from day one while I lived there. I currently live in Denver and will be fortunate enough to go the Saints vs Broncos game here in October 2012. Should I fear for my safety especially if the Saints win?

Is this the type of atmosphere that is being created? Goodell better make the appropriate moves with regards to bounty vs salary cap. Particulary since it is sounding more & more like they do not have enough evidence to make the bounty charges stick.

I think the city of New Orleans should file a class action lawsuit against Goodell.

If anyone out there is going to be attending the game in Denver, please let me know. Perhaps we can all meet outside the stadium prior to the game so we can walk in together.

An update from NOLA.com...

"We had two fundamental issues that have come to the forefront today," Vilma attorney Peter Ginsberg said. "One is a question about how we ended up in a place, at a proceeding, where the commissioner has so unilaterally and in such a draconian fashion believes that he can take over control of a proceeding like this. Putting aside how we got here, even with regard to the few fundamental rules that should govern these proceedings he cannot abide by them. For an example, the commissioner was obligated to produce the documents to us within 72 hours before the proceeding. The NFL didn't produce any of their documents 72 hours before the proceedings. When you look at those documents it's clear the commissioner whas withheld from us thousands of pages that he gathered during the course of his supposed investigation. He was also unwilling to present any witnesses to us. So we got upstairs and the commissioner has tried to regroup by adjourning today's hearing after we presented our position with regard to the process and with regard to the merits. We're not willing to participate in that kind of sham. The commissioner had legal obligations, procedural obligations. He failed in those obligations and as far as we're concerned these proceedings are over."


The NFL, for it's part, insists it complied with the language of the collective bargaining agreement by turning over some 200 out of tens of thousands of pages it amassed last Friday, three calendar days before the hearing. It was the players side that requested the adjournment, according to the NFL, to give it more time to review what has already been produced.

But it is what has not been produced that is telling, according to Ginsberg. Vilma stands accused of offering $10,000 to any teammate who took out an opposing quarterback in the 2009 playoffs, a chilling allegation he and Ginsberg say is untrue. There was no evidence in Friday's offering to support that charge, according to people favorable to the players who have reviewed it, and Ginsberg contends the massive files the NFL has thus far kept hidden would prove the falsity of the accusation.

"(Goodell) attempted to adjourn it, we closed the record," Ginsberg said. "For more abuse of the process and of Jonathan's rights? No, we've decided enough is enough. (Goodell) knows what the evidence is and if he chooses to ignore the evidence then we have to proceed as best we can to reclaim Jonathan's reputation."

Ginsberg thus left open the possibility, which he declined to address, that Vilma may seek additional recourse through the courts. Vilma has already filed a defamation lawsuit against Goodell personally in federal court in New Orleans.

"I'm an eternal optimist," Ginsberg said. "Perhaps the commissioner will rethink what he's doing."

read more

This poses an interesting wrinkle .... the league, or Goodell, according to Ginsberg, did not comply not only in a timely manner but also in terms of the actual evidence. So it looks like that Vilma now has yet another recourse upon which he can pounce on the NFL and the commissioner.

:popcorn:

As much as I hate it, I'm fearful that you're correct.

The bottom line is, Goodell has basically been granted absolute power, and here's what the NFLPA got for their trouble. This is what happens when there are no checks & balances ...

Yes. And this is why I think the NFLPA should gather everyone on a conference call and say something like this:

"We believe the Union should strike because, as has been seen, Roger Goodell will stop at nothing to further the league's agenda that it cares about player safety. We submit that he has lied to congress, personally supported the doctor, paid for by the NFL, who boldly stated that you, the players are at no greater risk for head trauma because you play in the NFL than any other person, has a history of destroying evidence, over-the-top fines and penalties, and that each of you are subject to this extremely unfair 'system of justice' simply by stepping onto the field. The ONLY way we can exercise any control over this system which has proven to be completely unfair to you, the players, is to Strike with these two demands: 1) Roger Goodell must step down as Commissioner of the NFL and 2) a system of checks and balances that spreads the decision making power among fair, impartial persons, be put in place immediately."

Now I know it will never happen, but I swear to all that is holy if I were in a position to influence players in the NFL I would do everything in my power to make it happen.

The issue of whether Goodell has the authority, through the CBA, to issue punishment on players is an internal matter between the NFL and the NFLPA interpreted through the CBA. The arbitrator's read the CBA and interpreted that Goodell has the authority to punish players for anything.

The lawsuit is completely separate from the CBA and the aribtrators assigned by agreement from the NFL and NFLPA.

The lawsuit is NOT about the CBA and a completely different matter - it's about SLANDER - false, misleading statements made by Goodell without just reason to say them (ie. using Vilma as a scapegoat) that hurt Vilma's career financially, and Vilma's reputation.

Trust me brother... I hate it as much as 1/2 the board combined... Goodells power is just another example of empty suits being paid to do a job and being ill equipped to do it correctly.

DeMaurice Smith is incapable of managing the NFLPA as it needs to be managed. He is a combination of two career paths that are on their own not considered either transparent or remotely honest. He is a lawyer with a Bachelors in Political Science. Lawyer/politician. (no disrespect to any of the lawyers here)... ambulance chasing scum has ruined the names of the good.

I understand he was elected unanimously... by a group of people not exactly known for intelligent choices... If they were, there wouldn't be all the whining from once millionaires that are now broke.

Especially when I read that the Union awarded him a $1M bonus LOL
Union awards $1 million bonus to DeMaurice Smith - The Washington Post

So the NFLPA has the money to give Smith a $1M bonus but not to give retired players investment advice?

So in essence... DeMaurice Smith was given $1,000,000.00 to give complete control to Roger Goodell. I smell something fishy...

Sure Goodell has absolute power... in the NFL Kangaroo court, but Goodell cannot break the law. The CBA gives Goodell the power to punish players by handing down suspensions, but it does NOT give Goodell is the ability to make false public statements aimed at players to intentionally hurt their reputation and career.

Goodell will get away with whatever he wants in his kangaroo courtroom at the NFL offices, the CBA gives him that power. But when Goodell is called into a federal courtroon, when the plaintiff (Vilma) asks for evidence, a powerpoint will probably not suffice and Goodell will pay $$$$$ proportional to his arrogance and lack of understanding and vision.

Wait a second. Isn't the CBA just a larger scale of a contract? If a contracted company doesn't uphold its end of the contract, legal recourse is ABSOLUTELY an option, and a damned good one if you ask me. Courts won't be able to reinstate Sean Payton or 51, but they can order that ALL 50,000 pages be turned over in which case, it will be open source. Then Goodell will have no choice but to step down. Then, politically speaking, the next guy would have to reinstate those suspended because the evidence is out and everyone knows the truth. This is absolutely a breach of contract. That's a thing in America. There's blood in the water!

I'm having a real hard time wrapping my head around something in all this since it started. I am in no way a supporter of Goodell. At first I liked his hard stance on some of the trouble makers in the league but as time went on the fines and suspensions for on the field actions became excessive. Now I would be willing to give Goodell and the NFL the benefit of the doubt with the excessive punishments based on the fact that they "say" they have evidence. The reason I would do this is becuase you supposedly have educated people in positions of great authority here. What perplexes me is could Goodell and the NFL be so stupid as to think that he could just arbitrarily hand down excessive punishment without having sufficient evidence to justify it and say I have the evidence and I don't have to show it because I have the power to do what I want? If it's a safety issue and he's making an example then why isn't James Harrison suspended for the year. How many times was he fined for lowering the boom on opponents and kept on doing it with contempt for the league not caring about the fines? Why isn't Suh suspended for the year. Heck, he is on tape stomping on an opponents arm and that certainly wasn't his first occurrance. Here we have guys suspended who spent a lot of time injured themselves and we have no tape, except the high-low on Favre, showing where any of them went after players without regard for that player's safety. Unlike the likes of Suh, Harrison, etc. I'm sorry, I'm rambling but I just find it hard to believe that Goodell could actually be that stupid. But then again, maybe it's not such a stretch. :confused:

That's exactly what I was relaying earlier.... Goodell has painted himself into a corner!

http://jeffreyhill.typepad.com/.a/6a...0b66970b-800wi

Good for him. I'm absolutely sick of Goodell and his petty bs. He embraces the players on draft night then bones them mercilessly the rest of their careers.

So what happens now?

we wait...

The federal trial might move quickly as Civil courts move fast. Could be weeks, but I'm sure the defense (Goodell) will try everything in it's power to extend the case until after the season begins because when football starts, people forget.

Let's see...

Yes... but it is in the fifth district of federal courts. That means New Orleans. So things could be expidited.

Man I wish the NFLPA was a stronger union. MLBPA fights and wins. Look at Braun last year. Do you think he would have succeeded in having his suspension overturned if he was an NFL MVP? NOPE. Sounds like today Vilma knew he had NO shot at legitimately fighting his case. Like he said Judge, Jury, and Executioner. I sure hope Vilma fights this as far as he can, and maybe we can reel in some of these dictator tactics.

No not at all. It will.

Yes it is... and that contract (agreement between all the players collectively and the NFL) granted Goodell the power to be "Judge, Jury, and Executioner".

That is the problem... Had the very players that are claiming he does not have that power not given it to him, they would have a legal case. So far there is no breach of contract, only an execution of powers granted.

At this point, all they can pursue with any realistic expectation of success are personal cases for slander and deformation of character.

They can also go on strike. Hell, they should at least threaten to go on strike. Again, "you signed the deal now live with it" just doesn't fly with me, because who in their right mind could have foreseen Roger going bat **** crazy like that?

The NFL isn't operating in good faith. So yeah, the players are 'stuck', right up and until the either strike and threaten to strike. If they are truly appalled by this whole thing the strike card is their best bet.