Grady slimmer then Sullivan - It's Official

WhoDat · 05-06-2004, 03:26 PM

Wow, this one is about to spiral out of control. I\'ll try to be as diplomatic as possible.

Sunshine (BC)

Kyle Turley I don\'t think was a cancer, but he was very hot-headed.

I hope this is a joke. Turley was sent to anger management classes, he spoke out against the team while on it, and he attacked Brooks, which led to his eventual departure. Turley was a good player and he wasn\'t let go b/c he couldn\'t hack it. If Turley isn\'t the definition of a locker room cancer in NO, please name someone who was worse.

You don\'t like Haslett, I understand that. I know you are going to call him on anything that is questionable.

It has nothing to do with liking or disliking, it has to do with ability. I don\'t care about Jim Haslett one way or the other, but yes, I am pretty confident in my opinion that Jim Haslett is the wrong coach for the New Orleans Saints. I like my boss. She\'s a nice lady of relative intelligence. However, she is not very good at her job. I don\'t wish her ill-will. I don\'t disagree with her b/c of some personal grudge. But I would like to see her replaced b/c it would be better for my organization.

I think virtually everyone here falls into two camps on Haz (and I\'m sure I\'ll take some flack for saying this): (1) Haz blows, should a been gone last year, and (2) Haz pretty well blows, we\'ll still give him this last chance.

Well J, anyway you slice it Haslett still blows, so what are we talking about here? How much longer you give a coach you know to be bad a chance to further prove you right?

He got his mom flowers for her B-day - I support such a move, but I do not support his eating dirt (or many other things he does or represents).

Fine, not the point really. If your mom said she was going to let this dirt-eating nimrod manage her money would you protest?

What do you think these guys would say if Haslett was fired or had left for Buffalo for more money? Would they say he\'s a bum. Would they call him trash. Would they say he hurt our team. What if Deuce, AB, or Horn left? Same thing?

Absolutely. The thing I most wish for in relation to this board is to have been a member when Ditka was still the coach. I bet these guys loved him... up until the day he got fired. Then he became a bum, in that instant.

He surely does...the responsibility for signing Grady is all on Jim, but Gradys inability to get his fat act together is all on Grady.

Let me get this straight - Haslett hired a player who couldn\'t get his act together and said, we think he can get his act together here. He didn\'t. Now, I\'m supposed to be more disappointed in the player than in the coach?

And still, I have to disagree Saintfan - at least to some extent. When a company hires someone they don\'t show that person to his desk and say, \"OK, good luck and get to work.\" You have training, exercises, your co-workers help you get a feel. Yeah, you have to perform, but it\'s not all on you. If a kid falls behind at school do you kick him out or do you give him a tutor? Point is, if Grady was going to be a problem, Haslett either should never have signed him, or if he felt signing him was worth the risk and the aggrevation, he should have seen to it that Grady worked with a trainer or something. There is also the issue of player buy-in. You keep mentioning the Tuna. When he showed up in Dallas he said no one was safe. He made everyone earn their spot. He is very strict and limits the players freedoms compared to other teams. He also tells his players that if they listen to him and do what their asked, the team will win. Then he goes out and proves that. The players believe and work harder. Maybe the players don\'t believe enough in Jim Haslett to work harder. ???

If Jim made a mistake signing Grady then I suspect he\'s in good company. Name me ONE coach that has never had problems with players in a similar fashion.

Oh c\'mon Saintfan. You\'re so good at that game, but don\'t get into a numbers debate with me. It\'s not about IF it happens to a coach, we all know that it does. It\'s about HOW OFTEN it happens. It happens here with greater regularity than it does in, oh, say, New England.

Finally SF, I don\'t know why you keep bringing up Parcells. There is a coach who has always gone into a place and implemented his own plan. His players are disciplined and do it his way. He sticks to a plan and his teams tend to get better year over year. And he wins. This is not Jim Haslett we\'re talking about.

Can anyone on this board, anyone at all say that this team is consistent and disciplined? Not one player, the TEAM. I guess they\'re consistently mediocre. They consistently underachieve. They consistently bring in good talent at the wrong positions and it rarely materialized. Their play is consistenly inconsistent and undisciplined. I mean, who are you guys trying to fool?

[Edited on 6/5/2004 by WhoDat]

GumboBC · 05-06-2004, 03:48 PM

WhoDat --

I\'ve debated with you many times on this board. I KNOW you can give a FAIR assessment when you want to.

You are certainly entitled to feel however you want to about Haslett and this team. It\'s my opinion that for what ever reason you have no cofidence in Haslett to get the job done?

You point out all the mistakes you percieve that Haslett has made. You like to use your job sitution as a analogy. I understand that, and making such references is a good way of gettting a point accross.

But, there\'s some of us that do believe that Haslett can get the job done. I, for one, knows Haslett has made some mistakes, but I believe he has learned from his mistakes. He can\'t go back and correct those mistakes. I see your point. You think there\'s a pattern there and that the pattern is doomed to contiue????

Well, maybe, but, it\'s entirely possible that Haslett will succeed. He made NO mistakes this offsesaon. He might not have signed the players YOU wanted him to, but he made NO mistakes.

He signed CB\'s, LB\'s, WR, FB, DE, DT, etc, etc.......

Instead of living in the past, I perfer to look at this season. Is that unfair??

JKool · 05-06-2004, 03:56 PM

I think virtually everyone here falls into two camps on Haz (and I\'m sure I\'ll take some flack for saying this): (1) Haz blows, should a been gone last year, and (2) Haz pretty well blows, we\'ll still give him this last chance.

Well J, anyway you slice it Haslett still blows, so what are we talking about here? How much longer you give a coach you know to be bad a chance to further prove you right?

He got his mom flowers for her B-day - I support such a move, but I do not support his eating dirt (or many other things he does or represents).

Fine, not the point really. If your mom said she was going to let this dirt-eating nimrod manage her money would you protest?

It was worth it just for the reply, WhoDat. \"Dirt-eating nimrod\", priceless - I\'m still chuckling.

The only point I was trying to make (and probably failing) was that people keep saying things like \"so-and-so is supporting the coach at every turn\" and so on. It seems to me that this is not actually going on. Furthermore, I can\'t remember the last person here who said they were happy with Haz.

Some people need to relax about who agrees with whom, who usually says what, and so on. We need people from both groups (if there are indeed such groups at all) - \"pessimists\" and \"optimists\". This is the only way to get at what is true - sift through the shiznit. There is nothing wrong with 08 or SF\'s posts just because they have an \"agenda\" (even if they do). I don\'t see why everyone is getting so upset these days about who annoys them, who is trying to corrupt the innocent (who is getting corrupted by these posts, really), and who\'s method is better (at any point you end up making fun of a particular person, rather than their argument, your method stinks IMO), (perhaps it is the lack of anything better to talk about right now? The rivialries are fun, but not when they appear in every thread.

WhoDat · 05-06-2004, 04:11 PM

We need people from both groups (if there are indeed such groups at all)

Sounds like some tree-hugging granola eating queer-a$$ liberal talk to me! LMAO.

JKool · 05-06-2004, 04:17 PM

Mmmmm, granola.

Also, you\'ll notice that Billy just made me look dumb too by supporting Haz right after I said no one had done that for a long time.

I guess it\'s not my day; must be bad luck.

Mmmmm, trees.

GumboBC · 05-06-2004, 04:19 PM

We need people from both groups (if there are indeed such groups at all)

Sounds like some tree-hugging granola eating queer-a$$ liberal talk to me! LMAO.

LOL... That WAS funny.......... :P

In all seriousness though, where\'s the good FOOTBALL debates? Did ya\'ll get away from breaking down things, both from a positive and negitive perspective?

Instead for just saying \"a player is UPROVEN and until he shows me something, then I\'m going to assume he can\'t get it done.\" Why not talk about both the upside and downside for that player? It sure would help me to learn more about our team if we debated the good and the bad about EVERYTHING...

Haz08 · 05-06-2004, 04:42 PM

Gumbo is right. We need to be fair about the players we got and talk about what they give us to work with. I cant hardly figure how no matter what move Jim makes a whole bunch of folks is ready to run him off for doing the dumest thing ever in football. We may be looking at the best year the Saints has ever had coming up and a bunch of yall is acting like Jim has gone and cancelled Christmas.

WhoDat · 05-06-2004, 05:00 PM

Instead of living in the past, I perfer to look at this season. Is that unfair??

Not unfair at all. And let me be clear. I DOUBT Haslett\'s ability. I further DOUBT a turnaround at this point, but I have NOT ruled it out. I hope the man proves me wrong. I truly truly truly do. My heart says yes, but my head\'s saying hell no!

It is funny that you said you were unhappy about the coaches minutes ago and now you\'re back to saying Haslett can get it done.... or shall I post some old comments?

05-06-2004, 03:26 PM	#31
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Grady slimmer then Sullivan - It's Official Wow, this one is about to spiral out of control. I\'ll try to be as diplomatic as possible. Sunshine (BC) Kyle Turley I don\'t think was a cancer, but he was very hot-headed. I hope this is a joke. Turley was sent to anger management classes, he spoke out against the team while on it, and he attacked Brooks, which led to his eventual departure. Turley was a good player and he wasn\'t let go b/c he couldn\'t hack it. If Turley isn\'t the definition of a locker room cancer in NO, please name someone who was worse. You don\'t like Haslett, I understand that. I know you are going to call him on anything that is questionable. It has nothing to do with liking or disliking, it has to do with ability. I don\'t care about Jim Haslett one way or the other, but yes, I am pretty confident in my opinion that Jim Haslett is the wrong coach for the New Orleans Saints. I like my boss. She\'s a nice lady of relative intelligence. However, she is not very good at her job. I don\'t wish her ill-will. I don\'t disagree with her b/c of some personal grudge. But I would like to see her replaced b/c it would be better for my organization. I think virtually everyone here falls into two camps on Haz (and I\'m sure I\'ll take some flack for saying this): (1) Haz blows, should a been gone last year, and (2) Haz pretty well blows, we\'ll still give him this last chance. Well J, anyway you slice it Haslett still blows, so what are we talking about here? How much longer you give a coach you know to be bad a chance to further prove you right? He got his mom flowers for her B-day - I support such a move, but I do not support his eating dirt (or many other things he does or represents). Fine, not the point really. If your mom said she was going to let this dirt-eating nimrod manage her money would you protest? What do you think these guys would say if Haslett was fired or had left for Buffalo for more money? Would they say he\'s a bum. Would they call him trash. Would they say he hurt our team. What if Deuce, AB, or Horn left? Same thing? Absolutely. The thing I most wish for in relation to this board is to have been a member when Ditka was still the coach. I bet these guys loved him... up until the day he got fired. Then he became a bum, in that instant. He surely does...the responsibility for signing Grady is all on Jim, but Gradys inability to get his fat act together is all on Grady. Let me get this straight - Haslett hired a player who couldn\'t get his act together and said, we think he can get his act together here. He didn\'t. Now, I\'m supposed to be more disappointed in the player than in the coach? And still, I have to disagree Saintfan - at least to some extent. When a company hires someone they don\'t show that person to his desk and say, \"OK, good luck and get to work.\" You have training, exercises, your co-workers help you get a feel. Yeah, you have to perform, but it\'s not all on you. If a kid falls behind at school do you kick him out or do you give him a tutor? Point is, if Grady was going to be a problem, Haslett either should never have signed him, or if he felt signing him was worth the risk and the aggrevation, he should have seen to it that Grady worked with a trainer or something. There is also the issue of player buy-in. You keep mentioning the Tuna. When he showed up in Dallas he said no one was safe. He made everyone earn their spot. He is very strict and limits the players freedoms compared to other teams. He also tells his players that if they listen to him and do what their asked, the team will win. Then he goes out and proves that. The players believe and work harder. Maybe the players don\'t believe enough in Jim Haslett to work harder. ??? If Jim made a mistake signing Grady then I suspect he\'s in good company. Name me ONE coach that has never had problems with players in a similar fashion. Oh c\'mon Saintfan. You\'re so good at that game, but don\'t get into a numbers debate with me. It\'s not about IF it happens to a coach, we all know that it does. It\'s about HOW OFTEN it happens. It happens here with greater regularity than it does in, oh, say, New England. Finally SF, I don\'t know why you keep bringing up Parcells. There is a coach who has always gone into a place and implemented his own plan. His players are disciplined and do it his way. He sticks to a plan and his teams tend to get better year over year. And he wins. This is not Jim Haslett we\'re talking about. Can anyone on this board, anyone at all say that this team is consistent and disciplined? Not one player, the TEAM. I guess they\'re consistently mediocre. They consistently underachieve. They consistently bring in good talent at the wrong positions and it rarely materialized. Their play is consistenly inconsistent and undisciplined. I mean, who are you guys trying to fool? [Edited on 6/5/2004 by WhoDat]
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

05-06-2004, 03:48 PM	#32
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Grady slimmer then Sullivan - It's Official WhoDat -- I\'ve debated with you many times on this board. I KNOW you can give a FAIR assessment when you want to. You are certainly entitled to feel however you want to about Haslett and this team. It\'s my opinion that for what ever reason you have no cofidence in Haslett to get the job done? You point out all the mistakes you percieve that Haslett has made. You like to use your job sitution as a analogy. I understand that, and making such references is a good way of gettting a point accross. But, there\'s some of us that do believe that Haslett can get the job done. I, for one, knows Haslett has made some mistakes, but I believe he has learned from his mistakes. He can\'t go back and correct those mistakes. I see your point. You think there\'s a pattern there and that the pattern is doomed to contiue???? Well, maybe, but, it\'s entirely possible that Haslett will succeed. He made NO mistakes this offsesaon. He might not have signed the players YOU wanted him to, but he made NO mistakes. He signed CB\'s, LB\'s, WR, FB, DE, DT, etc, etc....... Instead of living in the past, I perfer to look at this season. Is that unfair??
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

05-06-2004, 03:56 PM	#33
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Grady slimmer then Sullivan - It's Official I think virtually everyone here falls into two camps on Haz (and I\'m sure I\'ll take some flack for saying this): (1) Haz blows, should a been gone last year, and (2) Haz pretty well blows, we\'ll still give him this last chance. Well J, anyway you slice it Haslett still blows, so what are we talking about here? How much longer you give a coach you know to be bad a chance to further prove you right? He got his mom flowers for her B-day - I support such a move, but I do not support his eating dirt (or many other things he does or represents). Fine, not the point really. If your mom said she was going to let this dirt-eating nimrod manage her money would you protest? It was worth it just for the reply, WhoDat. \"Dirt-eating nimrod\", priceless - I\'m still chuckling. The only point I was trying to make (and probably failing) was that people keep saying things like \"so-and-so is supporting the coach at every turn\" and so on. It seems to me that this is not actually going on. Furthermore, I can\'t remember the last person here who said they were happy with Haz. Some people need to relax about who agrees with whom, who usually says what, and so on. We need people from both groups (if there are indeed such groups at all) - \"pessimists\" and \"optimists\". This is the only way to get at what is true - sift through the shiznit. There is nothing wrong with 08 or SF\'s posts just because they have an \"agenda\" (even if they do). I don\'t see why everyone is getting so upset these days about who annoys them, who is trying to corrupt the innocent (who is getting corrupted by these posts, really), and who\'s method is better (at any point you end up making fun of a particular person, rather than their argument, your method stinks IMO), (perhaps it is the lack of anything better to talk about right now? The rivialries are fun, but not when they appear in every thread.
	"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks

05-06-2004, 04:11 PM	#34
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Grady slimmer then Sullivan - It's Official We need people from both groups (if there are indeed such groups at all) Sounds like some tree-hugging granola eating queer-a$$ liberal talk to me! LMAO.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

05-06-2004, 04:17 PM	#35
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Grady slimmer then Sullivan - It's Official Mmmmm, granola. Also, you\'ll notice that Billy just made me look dumb too by supporting Haz right after I said no one had done that for a long time. I guess it\'s not my day; must be bad luck. Mmmmm, trees.

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05-06-2004, 04:19 PM	#36
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Grady slimmer then Sullivan - It's Official We need people from both groups (if there are indeed such groups at all) Sounds like some tree-hugging granola eating queer-a$$ liberal talk to me! LMAO. LOL... That WAS funny.......... :P In all seriousness though, where\'s the good FOOTBALL debates? Did ya\'ll get away from breaking down things, both from a positive and negitive perspective? Instead for just saying \"a player is UPROVEN and until he shows me something, then I\'m going to assume he can\'t get it done.\" Why not talk about both the upside and downside for that player? It sure would help me to learn more about our team if we debated the good and the bad about EVERYTHING...
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

05-06-2004, 04:42 PM	#37
Haz08 Rookie Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 22	Grady slimmer then Sullivan - It's Official Gumbo is right. We need to be fair about the players we got and talk about what they give us to work with. I cant hardly figure how no matter what move Jim makes a whole bunch of folks is ready to run him off for doing the dumest thing ever in football. We may be looking at the best year the Saints has ever had coming up and a bunch of yall is acting like Jim has gone and cancelled Christmas.
Haz08 Rookie Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 22

05-06-2004, 05:00 PM	#38
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Grady slimmer then Sullivan - It's Official Instead of living in the past, I perfer to look at this season. Is that unfair?? Not unfair at all. And let me be clear. I DOUBT Haslett\'s ability. I further DOUBT a turnaround at this point, but I have NOT ruled it out. I hope the man proves me wrong. I truly truly truly do. My heart says yes, but my head\'s saying hell no! It is funny that you said you were unhappy about the coaches minutes ago and now you\'re back to saying Haslett can get it done.... or shall I post some old comments?
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631