Saints Cornerbacks. We're fine.

GumboBC · 05-06-2004, 04:27 AM

I heard some of the media experts around the league and even some Saints fans talk about how much trouble our defense was in because of our cornerbacks. Well, I'm a firm believer that it starts with the defensive line. Sure you need adequete CB's, but you certainly don't need shut-down corners.

Just to satisfy my own curiosity, I did a little research, and this is what I found.

1992 Saints - Record 12-4 (MADE PLAYOFFS)
Position - Cornerback
Jimmy Spencer
Cedric Mack
Tyrone Legette
Reginald Jones
Toi Cook
Vince Buck

2003 PANTHERS SUPER BOWL CORNERBACKS
Terry Cousin
Reggie Howard
Ricky Manning (5'-9" rookie drafted in the 3rd round)
Dante Wesley
William Hampton

2003 DOLPHINS CORNERBACKS (MISSED PLAYOFFS)
Patrick Surtain (PRO-BOWL CB)
Sam Madison (PRO-BOWL CB)
Terrell Buckley
Jimmy Wyrick
Jamar Fletcher

2003 RAIDER CORNERBACKS (FINISHED 4-12)
Phillip Buchanon - 1st round (17th pick)
Charles Woodson - PROBOWL CB
Terrance Shaw
Clarence Love
Nnamdi Asomugha

Now, looking at the cornerbacks of those teams, does anyone even recongize any of the Panthers CB's?? How comfortable would ya'll feel with the Panther's CB's on our team?? How 'bout the 92 Saints CB's?? Not exactly a comfortable feeling is it.

Yet, those CB's played for the only 2 teams that made it to the playoffs. Heck, Carolina even made it to the super bowl with their CB's. Notice any simularites between the 92 Saints and the 2003 Panthers? Yep, you guessed it. They both had good defensive lines.

On another note, the rest of those teams are loaded up at cornerback. Yet, none of 'em even made the playoffs.

Now, that's just a few examples. When I think great defenses, I think about the great defenses of Pittsburg, Chicago, Philly, and even our Saints. And when I think about those defenses, the thing I think about is their front 7, not their CB's.

I'm not saying that teams with great talent at CB haven't had great seasons. But, I think I have proved you certainly can do just fine without them.

I think MAYBE some are making a little too much over our CB situation. I guess everyone has to draw their own conclusions.

Bise · 05-06-2004, 07:58 AM

Wow,

Toi Cook and Vince Buck.... that brings back lots of good memories : )

no_cloning · 05-06-2004, 12:17 PM

The goal is to win it all. Let\'s take a look at the Champs:

2004 Super Bowl Champions New England Patriots, Starting CBs:
Ty Law - Pro Bowl starter that year
Otis Smith

2003 Super Bowl Champions Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Starting CBs:
Ronde Barber - Pro Bowl starter that year
Brian Kelly

2002 Super Bowl Champions New England Patriots, Starting CBs:
Ty Law - Pro Bowl injury replacement
Otis Smith

2001 Super Bowl Champions Baltimore Ravens
Okay, they had no CBs in the Pro Bowl

2000 Super Bowl Champions St. Louis Rams, Starting CBs:
Todd Lyght - Pro Bowl starter that year
Dexter McCleon
also on the Team: Dre Bly, future Pro Bowler

It all starts up front - no doubt about it. But once you have a solid front seven you better get that corner that will allow you to win the big one. CBs are an important part of the puzzle, don\'t underestimate it.

GumboBC · 05-06-2004, 12:35 PM

no_cloning --

You make a very good point. CB\'s are a VERY important part of a defense. Given 2 defenses, both with great defensive lines, but only one has great shut-down cornerbackes, then obviously the one with the great corners is better.

But, the only point I was trying to make is that our CB situation is being over-blown. We can have a dominant defense with the CB\'s we have. At least other teams has certainly proved it can be done.

From my perspective, stopping the run is where is starts. You can have the best cornerbacks in the world, but if you can\'t stop the run and get pressure on the QB, then you are going to lose. And if we can\'t put pressure on the QB, those pro-bowl CB\'s are going to get burned. There isn\'t but MAYBE one or two ciornerbacks in the league that are truly \"shut down\" guys. MAYBE.

Our defense wasn\'t a shut-down cornerback short of being good. Unless that cornerback was going to come up and stop the run or rush the passer.

[Edited on 6/5/2004 by GumboBC]

Boccal · 05-06-2004, 01:08 PM

Billy,.. we don\'t know each other yet but I\'m sure we will by the end of this season..You talk about the D-line, are you trying to say that we need no corner help at all....We would have already had a good line this year without Willie while I now lean more toward the LB position. I hope Watson plays like the player I drafted on madden...lol

WhoDat · 05-06-2004, 02:29 PM

Seeing the name Toi Cook just made me hurl. Oh lord, I\'m still cringing. Why subject me to that Billy? WHY?!?!

Listen, theoretically speaking, I would say that the farther you get from the line of scrimmage, the less important the player is... safety can be an exception to that.

Most important thing a defense can do, IMO, is to stop the run. Second, rush the passer. Third, defend the pass in the secondary. That being said, it\'s not like CBs are not very important. I remember in the late 80\'s and early 90\'s our defense\'s only weakness was its secondary. Our D could allow 27 yards rushing and get 5 sacks, but those 15 or so plays that the QB had to sit in the pocket and throw usually equated to 300 yards and 2 TDs.

No matter how good you are against the run, no matter how much pressure you can get, you can\'t do it every down. There are going to be a lot of times in any game that our CBs are going to have to earn their pay on their own. That\'s scary.

What\'s more scary is that we DO NOT have a great front 7. Our D-line is pretty solid, but with Sully overweight, young, and coming off a shaky rookie season, another rookie, and an undersized B Young, it\'s not like we\'re going to control the middle. Behind them, our LBs are anything but solid.

If we can shut down teams in the running game AND get good pressure on the QB, then our CBs would be less of a concern. However, if teams can run for 100 yards a game against us and keep the D off-balance, our CBs can get eaten up.

05-06-2004, 04:27 AM	#1
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Saints Cornerbacks. We're fine. I heard some of the media experts around the league and even some Saints fans talk about how much trouble our defense was in because of our cornerbacks. Well, I'm a firm believer that it starts with the defensive line. Sure you need adequete CB's, but you certainly don't need shut-down corners. Just to satisfy my own curiosity, I did a little research, and this is what I found. 1992 Saints - Record 12-4 (MADE PLAYOFFS) Position - Cornerback Jimmy Spencer Cedric Mack Tyrone Legette Reginald Jones Toi Cook Vince Buck 2003 PANTHERS SUPER BOWL CORNERBACKS Terry Cousin Reggie Howard Ricky Manning (5'-9" rookie drafted in the 3rd round) Dante Wesley William Hampton 2003 DOLPHINS CORNERBACKS (MISSED PLAYOFFS) Patrick Surtain (PRO-BOWL CB) Sam Madison (PRO-BOWL CB) Terrell Buckley Jimmy Wyrick Jamar Fletcher 2003 RAIDER CORNERBACKS (FINISHED 4-12) Phillip Buchanon - 1st round (17th pick) Charles Woodson - PROBOWL CB Terrance Shaw Clarence Love Nnamdi Asomugha Now, looking at the cornerbacks of those teams, does anyone even recongize any of the Panthers CB's?? How comfortable would ya'll feel with the Panther's CB's on our team?? How 'bout the 92 Saints CB's?? Not exactly a comfortable feeling is it. Yet, those CB's played for the only 2 teams that made it to the playoffs. Heck, Carolina even made it to the super bowl with their CB's. Notice any simularites between the 92 Saints and the 2003 Panthers? Yep, you guessed it. They both had good defensive lines. On another note, the rest of those teams are loaded up at cornerback. Yet, none of 'em even made the playoffs. Now, that's just a few examples. When I think great defenses, I think about the great defenses of Pittsburg, Chicago, Philly, and even our Saints. And when I think about those defenses, the thing I think about is their front 7, not their CB's. I'm not saying that teams with great talent at CB haven't had great seasons. But, I think I have proved you certainly can do just fine without them. I think MAYBE some are making a little too much over our CB situation. I guess everyone has to draw their own conclusions.
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

05-06-2004, 07:58 AM	#2
Bise 100th Post Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 154	Saints Cornerbacks. We're fine. Wow, Toi Cook and Vince Buck.... that brings back lots of good memories : )
Bise 100th Post Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 154

05-06-2004, 12:17 PM	#3
no_cloning 100th Post Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 249	Saints Cornerbacks. We're fine. The goal is to win it all. Let\'s take a look at the Champs: 2004 Super Bowl Champions New England Patriots, Starting CBs: Ty Law - Pro Bowl starter that year Otis Smith 2003 Super Bowl Champions Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Starting CBs: Ronde Barber - Pro Bowl starter that year Brian Kelly 2002 Super Bowl Champions New England Patriots, Starting CBs: Ty Law - Pro Bowl injury replacement Otis Smith 2001 Super Bowl Champions Baltimore Ravens Okay, they had no CBs in the Pro Bowl 2000 Super Bowl Champions St. Louis Rams, Starting CBs: Todd Lyght - Pro Bowl starter that year Dexter McCleon also on the Team: Dre Bly, future Pro Bowler It all starts up front - no doubt about it. But once you have a solid front seven you better get that corner that will allow you to win the big one. CBs are an important part of the puzzle, don\'t underestimate it.
no_cloning 100th Post Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 249

05-06-2004, 12:35 PM	#4
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Saints Cornerbacks. We're fine. no_cloning -- You make a very good point. CB\'s are a VERY important part of a defense. Given 2 defenses, both with great defensive lines, but only one has great shut-down cornerbackes, then obviously the one with the great corners is better. But, the only point I was trying to make is that our CB situation is being over-blown. We can have a dominant defense with the CB\'s we have. At least other teams has certainly proved it can be done. From my perspective, stopping the run is where is starts. You can have the best cornerbacks in the world, but if you can\'t stop the run and get pressure on the QB, then you are going to lose. And if we can\'t put pressure on the QB, those pro-bowl CB\'s are going to get burned. There isn\'t but MAYBE one or two ciornerbacks in the league that are truly \"shut down\" guys. MAYBE. Our defense wasn\'t a shut-down cornerback short of being good. Unless that cornerback was going to come up and stop the run or rush the passer. [Edited on 6/5/2004 by GumboBC]
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

05-06-2004, 01:08 PM	#5
Boccal 100th Post Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Mobile Posts: 139	Saints Cornerbacks. We're fine. Billy,.. we don\'t know each other yet but I\'m sure we will by the end of this season..You talk about the D-line, are you trying to say that we need no corner help at all....We would have already had a good line this year without Willie while I now lean more toward the LB position. I hope Watson plays like the player I drafted on madden...lol

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05-06-2004, 02:29 PM	#6
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Saints Cornerbacks. We're fine. Seeing the name Toi Cook just made me hurl. Oh lord, I\'m still cringing. Why subject me to that Billy? WHY?!?! Listen, theoretically speaking, I would say that the farther you get from the line of scrimmage, the less important the player is... safety can be an exception to that. Most important thing a defense can do, IMO, is to stop the run. Second, rush the passer. Third, defend the pass in the secondary. That being said, it\'s not like CBs are not very important. I remember in the late 80\'s and early 90\'s our defense\'s only weakness was its secondary. Our D could allow 27 yards rushing and get 5 sacks, but those 15 or so plays that the QB had to sit in the pocket and throw usually equated to 300 yards and 2 TDs. No matter how good you are against the run, no matter how much pressure you can get, you can\'t do it every down. There are going to be a lot of times in any game that our CBs are going to have to earn their pay on their own. That\'s scary. What\'s more scary is that we DO NOT have a great front 7. Our D-line is pretty solid, but with Sully overweight, young, and coming off a shaky rookie season, another rookie, and an undersized B Young, it\'s not like we\'re going to control the middle. Behind them, our LBs are anything but solid. If we can shut down teams in the running game AND get good pressure on the QB, then our CBs would be less of a concern. However, if teams can run for 100 yards a game against us and keep the D off-balance, our CBs can get eaten up.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"