Saints' former first-rounder Sullivan overweight
 

NEW ORLEANS (AP) -- It's a familiar problem for the New Orleans Saints -- a defensive lineman struggling to get his weight under control.

Former first-round draft pick Johnathan Sullivan has ballooned by about 35 pounds. It's something the Saints went through with Norman Hand and Grady Jackson before getting rid of them.


"He's got to get his weight down again," said Saints defensive coordinator Rick Venturi


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Saints' former first-rounder Sullivan overweight
 

In the end it will all come down to the simplest of things ..... The failure of the coaching staff to impress upon the players the need to keep themselves in shape in the off season .

Off season conditioning programs not working , staff not maintaining their players at a certain level , divide the blame how you want in the end the Head coach sets the tempo .... ;)

Saints' former first-rounder Sullivan overweight
 

I know, I heard Michael Lewis has ballooned up to 178 lbs.
Damm Haslet McCarthy, Loomis, and Benson. Get rid of them all.

Saints' former first-rounder Sullivan overweight
 

hes a fat kid we drafted him to be a fat kid in the middle. aint no reason to freak when he shows up fat.

Saints' former first-rounder Sullivan overweight
 

That\'s a shame - he must be a person of poor character. I guess La\'Roi Glover was the only Saint DT to be of high character since Haslett got here - he\'s the only one that never got too fat.

Man, Haslett sure has bad luck. What is that now? 6 DTs who have struggled and failed to keep their weight in check? Man, he is just really unlucky - all these good guys who just happen to degenerate into chicken-wing-guzzling bums in a single year. Man, 6 \"freak\" coincidences all at the same position in 3 years. That\'s REALLY bad luck.

Ridiculous.

Saints' former first-rounder Sullivan overweight
 

Maybe if Haz\'d stop wearin\' wing sauce as aftershave, we could eliminate this problem.

Saints' former first-rounder Sullivan overweight
 

Actually guys, naked chicken wings aren\'t that fattening. Its the breaded kind like from Hooters that are really bad.
I think buffalo wings are kinda like Aaron Brooks performance, its really not that bad but the uninformed keep harping on it.

Saints' former first-rounder Sullivan overweight
 

I will buy that one ....

You go there looking for the taste of real chicken and leave with only geting a bunch of scrap parts and the dressing up sauce ......... ;)

Buffalo Brooks , works for me ..... :P

Saints' former first-rounder Sullivan overweight
 

Aaron Brooks and chicken wings do seem to have about the same IQ.

Saints' former first-rounder Sullivan overweight
 

Wait a sec....

I get it. Wing sauce is slimy.... slimy hands can\'t hold on to things... Aaron Brooks is wings... fingers slimy... can\'t grip ball.... fumbles...

And my dad said those college classes wouldn\'t pay off.

June 1, please hurry along and rescue us!

Saints' former first-rounder Sullivan overweight
 

Think we can pull the wonderlic scores on both of them ???... :P

Saints' former first-rounder Sullivan overweight
 

Gator,

Here\'s what I think -- You got a young guy coming out of college that\'s never had any money to speak of and all of a sudden, he\'s a multi-millionaire. He\'s got the big house and the nice car and all the distractions that go along with having money.

The man thinks all of his hard work has paid off and he has arrived at the promised land. Now instead for working hard during the offseason, he kick backs and does his thing.

The coaches need to get Sully on the right path. It is troubling when a young guy with so much promise doesn\'t take it on himself to be the best player he can be. Maybe John Pease can get through to the guy and push the right buttons.....

Saints' former first-rounder Sullivan overweight
 

Let me get this straight - you\'re suggesting that not only can the coaches influence Sullivan\'s weight and conditioning, but it is their responsibility to do so (or at least something that they SHOULD do if Sullivan proves he can\'t take care of himself)????

Saints' former first-rounder Sullivan overweight
 

I guess what I should have said is they need to TRY to do everything in their power to get Sully on the right path. They can\'t make him and ultimately it\'s on Sully as to the kind of player he wants to be.

Now, I have a question for you WhoDat. What if Sully doesn\'t lose the weight? What do they do then?

Saints' former first-rounder Sullivan overweight
 

If Sully can\'t lose weight and it affects his play then he should be dealt to another team.

Back to you: It\'s Haslett\'s responsibility to TRY - what if he fails? What if he fails with more than one player over and over again? Should anything happen to him for these failures? What does that say about him as a coach? Anything?

Saints' former first-rounder Sullivan overweight
 

Maybe Bill Parcells can get Larry Allen\'s weight under control. He failed to do that last year. ;)

Saints' former first-rounder Sullivan overweight
 

If Haslett fails over and over again, to an extreme, then something is wrong and he probably needs to go. IMO, what you and others have been doing is lumping the players into a catagory and not evaluating each one on an idividual basis.

Heres\' the players that ya\'ll have brought up.

1. Joe Johnson -- Wasn\'t let go because he was a cancer. He was let go for money reasons.
2. Norman Hand -- Wasn\'t let go because he couldn\'t keep his weitht under control or because he was some kind of cancer. He was let go because they wanted to go another direction.
3. Albert Conell -- Was let go because he was a theif. Haslett gambled (although it was a very small gamble) and lost. But, he didn\'t run Conell out of town. Conell did that own his OWN.
4. Willie Roaf -- Roaf accused Joe Horn of sleeping with his wife. Roaf didn\'t want to stay here after that. Maybe bringing in Horn was a mistake. You have to decide that for yourself.
5. Kyle Turley -- The man was out of line. Totally out of control here in N.O. Haslett grew tired of it and shipped him off. I suppose Haslett could have kept him and worked things out. I don\'t miss Turley. Maybe some do.
6. Grady Jackson -- Haslett praised this guy and tried to work with him. Grady refused to lost weight and missed team meetings. Haslett fined him. Grady acted even worse. Haslett got rid or him. I don\'t blame him.

You call all of those problem players that had to be shipped out. But they weren\'t all shipped out because they were problem players. Also, this isn\'t unique to Haslett. Some coaches have way more serious problems with their players than Haslett. AND MORE.

Saints' former first-rounder Sullivan overweight
 

Oh really? Who?


I\'d like to see a coach who has had more overweight players, more cancers, more players who have underperformed or not developed, more off-the-field antics, more collapses, less disciplined play (on the field) AND STILL MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS.

C\'mon Billy, show me those other coaches who have more problems than Haslett that are successful. And then, if you can (which I seriously doubt), explain to me why they could be successful with so many problems but Haslett can\'t be despite all this talent and fewer problems. I can\'t wait to hear this.

Saints' former first-rounder Sullivan overweight
 

While I\'m all about a good debate. You keep adding more and more to your arguement that has nothing to do with the original arguement.

Here\'s what I said, WhoDat:

I can easily prove that. But then you wanted to add on to what I said, by saying this:

Where did that come from? Where did underperforming, not developed, and collapsed seasons get brought into it? You are getting off the subject of \"cancerous players.\"

The bottom line is that Haslett is about a .500 coach over a four year period. I can find a lot of coaches, who have been successful, but have a .500 record over a four year period.

Saints' former first-rounder Sullivan overweight
 

Do all of those things not factor in Billy? Your view is far too myopic. You look at players being overweight and blame the players. You look at sloppy play one game and blame the o-line for jumping off-sides too much and not being focused. You look at players speaking out about the team and blame the player for being a loud mouth. You look at collapses, missed opportunities, poor off-season decisions, etc. etc. etc. and never seem to want to blame Haslett (although you have been better of recent I will admit). My point is simple - it\'s real easy to make your case when you are looking at only one thing. But when you step back and look at the big picture you see that these things are all connected. I won\'t say they all have the same source, but they are all brought back to ultimately being Haslett\'s responsibility (or at least failure in that area will have to be handled by him first and foremost).

Listen Bill, if this happened every once in a while, it might be different. If we were winning, I might be less critical, i admit that also. But when a team is overweight, undisciplined, and has the same needs at the same positions every single year over and over again it\'s more than a coincidence. It\'s a trend. Now who is responsible for that trend and what can be done to correct it?

[Edited on 10/5/2004 by WhoDat]

Saints' former first-rounder Sullivan overweight
 

WhoDat --

I\'m not trying to defend the win/loss record of Haslett. All I was saying is I think you are being unfair about the \"cancerous\" players thing.

If you want to look at the \"BIG\" picture with Haslett, then he has failed us for 3-years and he has exceeded our expectations for 1-year.

I can\'t really argue with you on a lot of things. I even agree with you on most of them. It\'s just I see some things a little differently and I\'m not as critical as you are.

I still say that Haslett hasn\'t had anymore problems or more unusal problems than a lot of successful coaches. I think the only difference is some of those coaches have been more successful. Which I think is your point. AND ITS A GOOD POINT.

Saints' former first-rounder Sullivan overweight
 

Ultimately, as I have shown in another post, Haz has a record very similar, if not better, than the most recent coach to win the superbowl as well as Parcells, who is widely considered on of the \"elite\" coaches in the game. If you look as each coach through their first 4 years you won\'t find much difference. Some folks just want Haz gone...and it IS that simple.

[Edited on 10/5/2004 by saintfan]

Saints' former first-rounder Sullivan overweight
 

Personality conflict was more the issue. Allen was used to being coddled. Parcells coaches with a no-nonsense attitude. Allen will not be wearing blue and silver this fall.

Saints' former first-rounder Sullivan overweight
 

Agreed, but by the Standards some are trying to hold Haz to, getting rid of Allen wouldn\'t be an option... ;)

Saints' former first-rounder Sullivan overweight
 

Regardless of why he is overweight and out of shape, he is to blame and should be ashamed. Us giving up two number ones to move up and take him based on his potential magnifies the situation and brings our judgement into question. Staying put at 17 and 18 could have landed us two potential starters namely in Bailey and Whitten along with other DTs and CBs available there. Hindsight can be 20/20 or it can blind you. You have to move forward. This guy came out as a junior, young and immature, had Grady as a role model, failed to grasp the defensive scheme, was slightly injured, and therefore played sparingly but his play did improve toward the end of the year. We got almost the same production out of undrafted rookie Kendrick Allen. Huge value difference between those two not only in picks but in dollars. Hopefully Sully will work hard to get both physically and mentally conditioned to be the best player he can be.

On another note.......earlier in this thread Billy gave an account of why several players are no longer with us. Let me tell you what I know about a certain situation. Remember, I see you when you\'re sleeping (with someone elses wife). It was rumored that Joe Horn had slept with Willie Roafs wife. Joe Horn publicly denied it. Nobody said Joe was lying or that it was true, not even Roaf. The organization and players ceased commenting on the subject. The wrong Joe got called out. It in fact was Joe Johnson.

In the perfect world, the team would have liked both players to have gotten over it and finished their careers here. Real world had Roaf emotionally shredded in need of a change in environment, change of address, and change of marital status. One of the best left tackles to ever play the game, the Saints were faced with having to pay him huge bucks to continue his presence here. Thinking that his best days were behind him and a trade would accomodate him, the team moved him with the upside being a lot of salary cap space freed up to sign other free agents which they did. The team really wanted to keep Joe Johnson as he at the time was a pro bowl player, our best defensive lineman, still young and at the prime of his career. He was a free agent and commanded big bucks on the open market even though he had the muscle tear earlier that year that sidelined him for several games. The organization got outbid for his services by a small margin in offer by Green Bay and was dissapointed in losing him ( we moved Howard from left to right end and drafted Grant in the first round ). Two seasons have since gone by and lets look at where these two players are today.

Willie Roaf is still playing at a pro bowl level and was stolen for a mere 3rd round draft pick.

Joe Johnson reinjured the same muscle, has played little, has been a huge dissapointment on the feild and also had the Cheech and Chong incident with the police pulling him over with the cloud of weed smoke coming from this vehicle. He was not invited to mini camp last week as the Packers feared him being injured. It is their intention to release him June 1st. If he can stay healthy, he still is young enough to play at a high level in the league. If he wants, he will sign on with another team.

Saints' former first-rounder Sullivan overweight
 

I\'ll tell you what, if you were hired as the CEO of a company valued around $300 million dollars, and you beat expectations by producing higher than expected earnings in your first year, and then followed that up with three straight years of losses (when the street was predicting moderate gains), your a$$ would be in the unemployment line. Haslett\'s job requirements are easily measured and his purpose is very easy to define: WIN. That\'s it. It is the only reason he is here. Take the team to a Super Bowl, or at very least one step closer. At this point, I don\'t care of the roof of the dome collapses - NO MORE EXCUSES!

Saints' former first-rounder Sullivan overweight
 

I\'m assuming you\'re talking to saintfan, but I\'m going to throw this in anyway :P


Jim Haslett - First 4-seasons with Saints
| Reg. Season | Playoffs |
| Year TM | W L T | W L |
| 2000 nor 10 6 0 | 1 1 |
| 2001 nor 7 9 0 | 0 0 |
| 2002 nor 9 7 0 | 0 0 |
| 2003 nor 8 8 0 | 0 0
| TOTALS 34 30 0 | 1 1

Mike Holmgren - First 4-seasons with Seahawks
1999 sea 9 7 0 | 0 1 |
| 2000 sea 6 10 0 | 0 0 |
| 2001 sea 9 7 0 | 0 0 |
| 2002 sea 7 9 0 | 0 0 |
TOTALS 31 33 0 1

Bill Bellichick First 4-years coaching
| Year TM | W L T | W L |
+----------+--------------+----------+
| 1991 cle | 6 10 0 | 0 0 |
| 1992 cle | 7 9 0 | 0 0 |
| 1993 cle | 7 9 0 | 0 0 |
| 1994 cle | 11 5 0 | 1 1 |
TOTALS 31 33 1 1

Basically, no, Exactly what you are saying is would would have fired Bellichick and Holmgren --

[Edited on 11/5/2004 by GumboBC]

Saints' former first-rounder Sullivan overweight
 

I\'ve already tried that Billy...they just blow it off and go back to their beetchin\'. There is no way to level the playing field when the combatants don\'t WANT a level playing field.

You guys who are miffed by those of us (myself in particular) that tend to support Haz seem to think we/I don\'t hold him accountable -- and that\'s simply not the truth. The thruth is I saw a lot of reasons for the Saints 8-8 record last year and I could list \'em here, but why waste more HDD space on it. I\'ve done it before.

Whodat listed some coaches a few posts ago where he indicated people he\'d rather see coaching the Saints. How many of those coaches have done for their team what Whodat demands of Haz in the same time frame? Well, how many of \'em Whodat?

Some of you just don\'t like Haz...wonderful...but in your general dislike for the man you\'re failing to take everything under consideration...and you KNOW it.

Saints' former first-rounder Sullivan overweight
 

I know you did saintfan and I know it\'s frustrating to follow someone eles\'s logic only to have them dismiss it when you show them their reasoning is flawed.

I\'ve heard them say Haslett needs to be fired. then in the next breath they tell me this is the most talented team we\'ve ever had. Obviously, Haslett brought the players in that he wanted. I think Jim gets the credit there.

They tell me that it was luck that we won in Hasletts first year and then they tell me in the next breath that we can\'t blame last year on bad luck because their is no such thing as bad luck. Well, if there\'s such a thing as good luck, then doesn\'t there have to be such a thing as bad luck?

I\'m trying to be unbiased on Haslett. There have been some things that have happend that are Haslett\'s fault. But, there have been some things happen that were totally out of his control. I\'m sure Bellichick wasn\'t totally to blame when his team lost during his first 4 years of coaching. I\'m also sure that these folks that are criticising Haslett wouldn\'t have wanted to listen to reasoning had Bellichick been our coach during those losing seasons he had. By their logic, the only thing that counted was the wins/losses.

There have been great coaches that have been fired because fans got frustrated and ownership caved in to their demands. Bellichick is one example. IMHO, just because someone can point to a coach that has enjoyed more success early on in their career doen\'t mean that because Haslett has had problems that he is not a good coach.





[Edited on 11/5/2004 by GumboBC]

Saints' former first-rounder Sullivan overweight
 

Bellichick didn\'t have more success early in his career. ...and what is there to be said about the Patriots from year before last? What happened to \'em then?

Saints' former first-rounder Sullivan overweight
 

The argument WhoDat gave me is they have proved they can do it so they get the benefit of the doubt. So, until Haslett does it, then he\'s going have folks calling for his head. Used to, fans and ownership were much more patient with a coach and it usually paid off for them. Today coaches are fired at an alarming rate.

[Edited on 11/5/2004 by GumboBC]

Saints' former first-rounder Sullivan overweight
 

Billy, I may be mistaken but I thought WhoDat\'s argument regarding certain coaches (Jimmy Johnson was the example I recall) is not that they get the benefit of the doubt, rather that we have good evidence for their ability to do certain things that we do not have in Haz\'s case. While, in general, I\'m with you guys, I thought this was a decent argument:

1. All teams produce cancers.
2. Some coaches are able to succeed in the face of the cancers.
Therefore, 3. we have evidence that the successful coaches are doing something with the cancers that unsuccessful teams have not (namely controlling them well enought to succeed).

I imagine it follows that Haz has not displayed 2, but Bellichick has. Thus, we can cut Bellichick some slack, since we have reason to believe that either the cancers are too cancerous or he\'ll get it under control. In Haz\'s case, we have no reason to believe that claim. Thus, it is not that Haz has done a bad job here, it is that we cannot evaluate it.

I think after that part of the argument, which I find pretty good, WhoDat will add a list of other things that Haz is failing at and say that we have no evidence that Haz is doing well, but we do have evidence he is doing poorly. This last bit must be what you and Saintfan are criticizing, right?

Saints' former first-rounder Sullivan overweight
 

JKool --

That was another arguement. First of all, I think this \"cancerous\" player thing has been TOTALLY blown out of porportion by a few members here in an attempt to discredit Haslett. The bottom line is we\'ve had no more problem players shipped out than most other teams.

I do agree with WhoDat on some things. It\'s troubling to me that some areas of need haven\'t been properly addressed. To me, that\'s really the only thing of importance that Haslett has failed at. I think Haslett has failed to bring in the right players on defense and I think that\'s the reason we haven\'t been back to the playoffs the last few years. I\'m going to give Haslett the benefit of the doubt this year, but if our defense fails us, then I\'m going to join those folks in calling for Hasletts job.

What I will NOT do is use just ANY ol\' thing to bash Haslett with. They can keep right on using whatever they come up with, but I\'m going to remain unbiased.

[Edited on 11/5/2004 by GumboBC]

Saints' former first-rounder Sullivan overweight
 

Actually - this whole debate started with OVERWEIGHT players, not CANCEROUS players. I look at the two differently. Saintfan has blamed the players themselves entirely for weight problems in the past. While I don\'t deny that a large part of the responsibility is on them, when a coach has holes at DT for 3 years b/c 6 different DTs he brings in develop weight problems, then he uses two first rounders to draft a DT that promptly blimps up, that MAY be a sign of a problem, and it is on Haslett to keep every DT we bring in from turning into some 350 or 400 pound blob of fat.

If your car starts leaking oil, and you open the hood and thing that you\'ve got a busted hose, you replace it. If after you replace it the problem isn\'t fixed, maybe you try a new oil line one more time, in case the original was defective. After that, you try to address the problem by looking for other root causes, you don\'t just keep replacing the oil line and suggesting that each previous hose was defective. That\'s my point. It\'s about time Haslett looks to address the overweight DT problem in some other way than bringing in new ones and hoping that they stay slim in the offseason.

Saints' former first-rounder Sullivan overweight
 

WhoDat --

Isn\'t it true that the ONLY player to have a real weight problem was Grady Jackson? Not Normand Hand, Kenny Smith, or any of the other defensive tackles. Isn\'t it true that we didn\'t get rid of Norman Hand because of a weight problem? Isn\'t it true that we got rid of Hand because we wanted to go in a different direction?

Isn\'t it also true that it isn\'t unusual for defensive tackles to gain some weight during the off-season? Isn\'t it true that a lot of \'em usually lose that weight by the time training camp rolls around? Isn\'t it also true that training camp hasn\'t even started yet and the media and YOU are making much more of this than what it is?

[Edited on 11/5/2004 by GumboBC]

Saints' former first-rounder Sullivan overweight
 

For starters, Hand was shipped out of town b/c he gained weight which made him less effective. The official reason can be classified as poor play, but it resulted from his weight gain. You think those guys were nicknamed the \"Lunch Bunch\" for no reason?


Secondly Billy, you should have learned by now. Is this weight problem being inflated? Maybe... I might even say probably if you look at it only this year. Of course, when weight issues have been a concern for a long time now, maybe not. Maybe it\'s a sign that nothing has changed.

More importantly, how quickly you forget. Last off-season I made comments about the offense slipping, special teams not being so special, and the defense only getting slightly better. You called me insane. Remember how things turned out? Let me remind you.


Now, I\'m not suggesting that you take everything I say as fact. However, you might want to remember that I do know a thing or two about this team. Maybe I am inflating the issue - it certainly may turn out to be nothing. However, after years of weight problems, to suggest that a DT we spent two first rounders on in a year where we were totally revamping our defense showing up to camp overweight in his second year is no big deal seems either foolish or wishful. You\'re right Billy, it may turn out to be nothing. Of course, to dismiss it as nothing at this point seems pretty dumb to me.

Saints' former first-rounder Sullivan overweight
 

First of all, I hear you bashing Haslett about wanting to get bigger on D-line and then Haslett changing his mind that he wanted to get smaller. Now, you\'re saying that Haslett didn\'t get rid of Hand because he wanted to get smaller at the position, he got rid of Hand because he couldn\'t control his weight. Well, you can\'t ride both sides of the fence, WhoDat. Pick one side and criticize him for that. Which one is it? It seems to me that you\'ll use both if it helps promote your dislike for Haslett.

Second, I\'m not saying that Sullivans weight isn\'t an issue. It is. But, I\'m not going to get overly concerned about it before camp even starts and try to suggest this is a poor reflection on Haslett. I look at it like this, WhoDat -- Haslett found out about Sullivan\'s weight problem way before training camp started and is addressing it NOW to make sure Sully reports to camp in shape.

Thrid -- You were ONE of the few folks I heard last year that said our offense would struggle. Why did you think it would struggle and do you think it will struggle this year? You were right about the defense, I give you credit for that. I was optimisic about it myself, but I was wrong.

]

[Edited on 11/5/2004 by GumboBC]

Saints' former first-rounder Sullivan overweight
 

Billy, how you love to muddy the water.

1. Haslett got rid of Hand b/c his performance suffered after Hand\'s weight became a problem.

2. Haslett did not choose to get smaller at d-line. He chose to get faster (something most fat-a$$es aren\'t) on defense in general.

3. I didn\'t criticize Haslett\'s plan to get faster. It is a good one, as I have stated before.

4. I HAVE criticized the personnel that Haslett brought in to fulfill his plan to get faster. I have also criticized Haslett\'s seeming inability to stick to a plan for any great period of time. Criticizing execution of a plan is different than criticizing the plan itself Bill -- you\'re a smart guy I\'m sure you understand the difference.

As to this year, it\'s early and hard to tell at this point.

When I look at our talent I am optimistic. I think Deuce will have another good year, though maybe not as statistically good as last year. That will probably be a result of improved performance in the passing game. Brooks SHOULD be a Pro Bowler this year, and our receivers should be flat dangerous. Our offense should be better than last year - fewer stalled drives and more TDs.

On D I think we\'ll get better but still get beaten by teams with a solid running game that can keep us off balance. I hope that we attack more. If our D-line stays healthy they should be better. Our LBs can only go up. Corner and safety are concerns.

Special teams will get better if, and only if, Al Everest learns how to run a middle wedge. Lewis\' sideline to sideline returns last year weren\'t a function of his fear. They were called plays - just watch the tape and you will see the wedge always setup outside. That may have had something to do with how shallow we were at WR and the coaching staff\'s decision to protect one of its few remaining healthy receivers.

I think our team is talented but question marks and holes still, as of right now, exist at MLB, DT, and CB... and safety. Otherwise, we have great talent that is capable of going to the Super Bowl.

On the flip side, I think our schedule looks tough and I am not very impressed with our coaching staff. Another .500 season is not out of the question. While I do like our personnel, with the exception of a few spots, I am unhappy with our coach (shocker).

If I was forced to wager a guess right now I would say 10-6 and a wildcard spot for the upcoming season. Some might be happy with that; I am always happy when we make the playoffs. Still, I think given our current coaching staff that is about the best our team is capable of performing and at 10-6 they still may be underacheiving. I would love to see this team succeed. I would love to see Haslett prove me totally wrong. Until that happens, I will cheer on Sundays and continue to believe that given a better coach, this team could be Super Bowl bound in one year, if not this year.

Saints' former first-rounder Sullivan overweight
 

I think I\'ve been pretty unbiased in my assessment of Haslett. Maybe you FEEL or THINK Haslett needs to go. Maybe you have the answers Gator. I don\'t. I have some answers, but not all. I could be wrong and Haslett might fail. You could be wrong and Haslett might succeed? Of course, when you simply close your mind then you aren\'t willing to look at anyone\'s side but your own. I think WhoDat has made some very good points on Haslett and I\'ve taken everything he\'s said into consideration. He has changed my mind about some and some he hasn\'t. But, WhoDat doesn\'t simply say that Haslett sucks....Nuff said. He states very good reasons why he feels the way he does.

I\'ve said ON THIS THREAD that if Haslett fails this year that I\'ll be calling for him to go. I said I can even see a case where this team makes the playoffs and I\'d still want Haslett gone. In my eyes that\'s fair.

Saints' former first-rounder Sullivan overweight
 

Here\'s one example: If we go to the playoffs and lose the game against a less talented team. Or, if I feel coaching was the reason we lost the game.