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-   -   Breaking News: NFLPA files suit in bounty matter (https://blackandgold.com/saints/45211-nflpa-files-suit-bounty-matter.html)

TXGSP 07-05-2012 09:02 AM

NFLPA files suit in bounty matter
 
1 Attachment(s)
It started early this morning....

The NFL Players Association has filed a lawsuit against the NFL on behalf of three players suspended in connection with the league's bounty investigation.

The lawsuit was filed in federal court in New Orleans on Thursday. It says NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell violated the collective bargaining agreement by showing publicly he had determined Will Smith, Anthony Hargrove and Scott Fujita had participated in a bounty system even before serving as an arbitrator at their hearing.

The lawsuit asks a judge to set aside earlier arbitration rulings and order a new arbitrator to preside over the matter. The suit comes two days after Goodell denied appeals by four players. The other player, Jonathan Vilma, has sued the NFL and Goodell separately.

Vilma is suspended for a season, Hargrove for eight games, Smith four and Fujita three.

TheOak 07-05-2012 09:56 AM

Hummmm interesting angle.... I do not recall any verbiage that was violated..

burningmetal 07-05-2012 09:59 AM

The NFLPA really annoys me. This is about the 12th time they've tried to sue the NFL, and each time they use the most vague reasoning. I'm absolutely all for suing the league, but the NFLPA continuously fails to attack the weakest points of Goodell's arguments.

If you keep complaining about language in the CBA being misinterpreted and violated, you're gonna keep getting the same result. Nothing. It's been proven that no arbitrator wants to look at the CBA, as they have repeatedly sided with the commissioner. I've said it before and I'll say it again, every time they question whether Roger has jurisdiction it makes it seem like they're admitting guilt and hoping for a way around punishment.

The players themselves have been vehemently denying any involvement, and so the question is not whether he has jurisdiction, but rather does he have reason, or just cause to punish our team. I keep hearing Goodell, after each time he denies our appeals, saying "you haven't shown me any evidence to reverse my rulings". Huh? What exactly do you want them to show you, Roger? You have zero proof that the Saints ever tried to hurt anyone... That seems like evidence in favor of the players to me. You talk about some ledger of which no one knows it's origin, and not surprisingly there are no links between players on the ledger and any actual injury to said players.

This man is the perfect definition of a dictator.

Halo 07-05-2012 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burningmetal (Post 416422)
If you keep complaining about language in the CBA being misinterpreted and violated, you're gonna keep getting the same result. Nothing. It's been proven that no arbitrator wants to look at the CBA, as they have repeatedly sided with the commissioner. I've said it before and I'll say it again, every time they question whether Roger has jurisdiction it makes it seem like they're admitting guilt and hoping for a way around punishment....

This man is the perfect definition of a dictator.

I totally agree with everything you said.
I think the NFLPA is in a MUST SUE situation to backup the players suing or about to sue.

The "unfairness" they are discussing is whether dictator Goodell who handed down the punishment should have stepped back and allowed other arbitrators to work on the appeal.

And they are correct, it's almost like players careers are in the hands of a school principle dictator in Goodell.

All we know is this.... the flood gates of litigation have been opened by ROGER GOODELL and he has only one person to blame and that's himself!!!!

Bad for football?? Yes, horrible.

Who is to blame? Don't blame Vilma! Look no further than Goodell. Tough job or not he needs to give players and coaches a fair shake, which he is not doing.

SmashMouth 07-05-2012 10:21 AM

Sucks to be Goodell right now!

burningmetal 07-05-2012 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halo (Post 416437)
I totally agree with everything you said.
I think the NFLPA is in a MUST SUE situation to backup the players suing or about to sue.

The "unfairness" they are discussing is whether dictator Goodell who handed down the punishment should have stepped back and allowed other arbitrators to work on the appeal.

And they are correct, it's almost like players careers are in the hands of a school principle dictator in Goodell.

All we know is this.... the flood gates of litigation have been opened by ROGER GOODELL and he has only one person to blame and that's himself!!!!

Bad for football?? Yes, horrible.

Who is to blame? Don't blame Vilma! Look no further than Goodell. Tough job or not he needs to give players and coaches a fair shake, which he is not doing.

Oh yeah, definitely. He absolutely should step back and allow an unbiased set of eyes and ears look at it. But it seems like the NFLPA has tried this before, with no success. I want the NFLPA to really attack him in court and call him out for all the loose "documents" he keeps throwing around that, for one, nobody ever seems to know where they came from, and secondly, don't show anything but names and holds no proof of any wrong doing.

But you're right, these players deserve a real chance, and we all know they haven't had it yet.

Srgt. Hulka 07-05-2012 10:41 AM

Gentlemen, I believe we are witnessing the end of football as we know it. We have reached a point in the NFL from which there is no turning back. Ten years from now, we won't even recognize the NFL. This is a sad time to be a NFL fan imo. Thanks NFLPA and Comrade Goodell. You are both equally guilty of destroying an American institution. :(

TXGSP 07-05-2012 10:53 AM

The bias angle due to the release of information and public statements could be an interesting angle. Could bring into question ethics surrounding the "Judge, Jury, Executioner" view of the appeals process.

The court could be a good venue to pull more information regarding the investigation and any involvment by the Kommisar's office leading it.

I know the arbitrator is supposed to be impartial, but didn't the MLB fire an arbitrator after he overturned a suspension? Not sure if it was the same arbitrator or not.

Beastmode 07-05-2012 10:55 AM

I think the NFLPA has a stronger case than most believe. One thing I noticed is that Roger was on lock down after the March ESPN interview. Other than general statements, he hasn't opened his mouth since.

burningmetal 07-05-2012 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXGSP (Post 416451)
The bias angle due to the release of information and public statements could be an interesting angle. Could bring into question ethics surrounding the "Judge, Jury, Executioner" view of the appeals process.

The court could be a good venue to pull more information regarding the investigation and any involvment by the Kommisar's office leading it.

I know the arbitrator is supposed to be impartial, but didn't the MLB fire an arbitrator after he overturned a suspension? Not sure if it was the same arbitrator or not.

Yep, the arbitrator who overturned Ryan Braun's drug suspension before this season was almost immediately fired thereafter.

Cruize 07-05-2012 10:59 AM

Goodell is taking a stance he HAD to take. Unfortunately, it's against our beloved Saints, who in many ways have ONLY themselves to blame. Regardless of whether your agree with the punishments or not, which I absolutely don't in regards to severity, the whole situation really could not have played out any other way. Goodell, with the full backing of the owners, has taken a firm stance on player safety. Partly due to the fact that it needed to happen, but mostly because of looming litigation that could cut into everyones piece of the pie. Then, the Saints have an active bounty program in place that they refused to end and refused to cooperate with the league and Goodell's office in any way. It really doesn't matter how you and I see the bounties. It doesn't matter that these programs have always been in the NFL. It doesn't matter if we agree that the punishment doesn't fit the crime. My guess is if this had happened to the Falclowns, Saintsnation would be 90% on bashing them and wishing for the league to drop the hammer on them. It hurts and is disappointing but you have to take a step back and look at it objectively. The bottom line is Goodell had no choice but to decide things as he did and the Saints only have themselves to blame. I don't like it. But, it is what it is.

burningmetal 07-05-2012 11:10 AM

Friend, I am looking at this as objectively as I can and I don't see how this is in any way a statement for player safety. The league accused the Saints of intentionally hurting players. This has nothing to do with standard pay for performance "big plays". The NFL knew that type of thing was going on and had a rule against it, but never seriously enforced it. If it were about that, and the league had a history of consistency in enforcing that rule, I would agree with you that the Saints got what they deserved. But what they told the Saints to stop, is exactly what the Saints are saying they were never doing in the first place... Know what I mean?

If someone in your neighborhood got beat up and the cops showed up at your house and told you to stop beating people up, without any evidence that you beat that person, how do you stop doing something you didn't do in the first place? That's what this is about. And until Goodell comes up with anything other than hearsay, we're not going to leave him alone.

TXGSP 07-05-2012 11:27 AM

With a 3-year investigation only 176 pages of ducuments were provided and most contained nothing to prove/disprove what was accused. A 3-year investigation of the league as a whole probably would have had more than 176 pages discovered regarding pay-for-performance and more than one team involved.

If ANY team had a 3-year investigation the league should be able to provide more than circumstancial evidence for what was presented in the press as overwhelming and implicating 22-27 people.

I don't care what team/player is involved, I want to know the next team/player/coach implicated will get an impartial person to deal with whatever the situation is - on/off the field.

saintfan 07-05-2012 11:59 AM

This didn't have to play out this way people. It shouldn't have. The league has to change how it is viewed, and that's a tall task because the violent culture of the NFL has been marketed - BY the NFL - that way for decades.

Enter the lawsuits. The NFL is all of a sudden (and don't be fooled, they don't care otherwise) interested in player safety. It's the motivation to make a public display of their shift in morality that has caused all the drama.

Roger could have done the right thing. He could have dealt with the Saints employees in a respectful way, acknowledging the fact that what they were doing was historically part of the game - the pay for performance jockeying that goes on between players. They broke a rule, and yes, we all know other players on other teams are guilty of the same. But they broke the rule, so pull them aside, explain the situation to them like men, make the fines/suspensions reasonable, and this was over 3 months ago.

But that's not what Roger wanted. He wanted this to be just a public as he could make it. His actions from the very beginning are transparent. This is likely why he and the NFL defended so vigorously the Commissioner's "all powerful" position while negotiating the latest CBA - because they knew then this was coming. Remember the players tried (to some degree) to whittle away at Roger's power tree but were turned back during negotiations. Maybe they didn't try hard enough...that's debatable...but to be fair to them, nobody has ever abused the power of that office the way Roger has. Nobody. Ever.

I believe Roger could have had a group meeting and told the players and coaches this: "Look guys. The NFL is in a tight spot. The culture has to change. I need to guys to, in essence, take one for the team here."

Had he done that I'm willing to bet we'd be talking football right now and not pretending we know a damn thing about the law. But he DIDN'T do that, and he never considered doing that. His plan from the beginning was to spin this in the worst way possible and use his media whores to broadcast it and sway public opinion.

As Halo said (I think it was Halo), how can Roger expect the players to defend themselves against something he hasn't proved they have done? Goodell isn't stupid, but clearly his approach to the players and to the Union is as if he believes THEY are stupid. They're not stupid. They're between a rock and a hard place.

I'm willing to bet Roger saw that much drama would unfold - but I'm also willing to bet he never saw Vilma's lawsuit coming. And once he finally was force (and believe that - he WAS forced, otherwise he would have destroyed everything by now) to reveal what little he had the NFLPA rightfully has fallen in line right behind Jon. What else can they do?

Because it's NOT about player safety from the NFLPA, at least not about on the field safety. It's about protecting the players from the power drunk commissioner on a mission to save the league's ass in court. Any player(s) thinking they aren't in his cross-hairs is an idiot. The man has established that he will do any and everything - there are no limits on who he will throw under the buss, based on facts or not, to further his agenda. The player's association HAS to act, and they have to do it now.

I've had conversations with 626 about why the players cannot strike, and I confess that I don't fully understand his reasoning on why they can't. Clearly he has more knowledge than do I. Still, collateral damage be damned, I think the players should not pick up another football until Roger is dealt with.

Right now, the biggest threat to players in the NFL is not head trauma, it's Roger Goodell. They best get wise to that if they aren't already, because he's insane with power and threatens their ability to earn money. That's just accurate. They have to force him to come out from behind the CBA and deal with them as equals and as men...respectfully...by whatever means is necessary.

Rugby Saint II 07-05-2012 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beastmode (Post 416452)
I think the NFLPA has a stronger case than most believe. One thing I noticed is that Roger was on lock down after the March ESPN interview. Other than general statements, he hasn't opened his mouth since.

Yeah, we ain't heard anything from him since. His advisors must have told him to STFU!!!! I can see the judge looking at interview after interview when he called us scum even before he hand handed down his vengence err....... uhm........sentence(yeah that's it) :rolleyes:

CheramieIII 07-05-2012 06:05 PM

It's just fun watching Goddell squirm over this bull

TheOak 07-06-2012 06:55 AM

This is a stall tactic....

What really needs to happen is that those 4 players need to check all the boxes before lawsuits are filed... At this point they have not followed through with the Leagues dispute resolution program..

A recap:
1. CBA gives Goodell the power on this.
2. Goodells right to rule over this case was upheld by an appellate that was not Goodell.
3. Goodell's rulings were upheld by the appellate outlined in the CBA.
4. The CBA dictates that the NFL's dispute resolution program be used.. The players have not used that program and refuse to meet with Goodell.
5. Goodell has asked to meet with the players and said he would consider what the players lay out on the table in regards to reduced sentences.... The players refuse.



Point:
Roethlisberger - Met with Goodell and his punishment was reduced.
Vick - met with Goodell and punishment was reduced.


Everyone need to understand that "there is no evidence of guilt" means absolutely nothing... let it go...

Case: Ben Roethlisberger, Never convicted, never Tried, Never charged, never even arrested... Punished by Goodell.

burningmetal 07-06-2012 01:32 PM

And the fact that Goodell punished Ben Roethlisberger for something that he wasn't convicted of and didn't even have anything to do with football is another example of his abuse of power.

Why should players continue to accept this? With all due respect, letting it go is the worst answer. They need to fight, and perhaps they'll lose, but they have to try. This is out of control.


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