MLB - Jeremiah Trotter a Saint? John Clayton says....

SaintShreve · 06-03-2004, 04:54 PM

well, since we\'re into predictions around here...

Will Tbuck be the guy we pay him to be or just a tackle-missing highlight reel again?

I think our safety play will be much improved this year. Tebucky tried to do too much last year and misjudged way too many plays on the Dome turf. He\'ll settle in with Mitchell or Bellamy and be more effective this year. I also expect Haslett to use him in some CB situations against some of our more freakishly-sized WR opponents, e.g. T.O., Moss and use Bellamy as FS with Mel at SS

Is Mitchell healthy?

Yes. He\'ll be fine. If he gets injured this year, it won\'t be because of his knee. His knee should be 100% going into Summer.

Can Bellamy play that well again or was last year a fluke?

Fluke I think. I\'d love to say it was real, but he stunk it up for so long at his \"natural\" FS position. I think his numbers looked better because more tackle opportunities were coming his way - see last year\'s Run D numbers for evidence.

Do we have enough depth at safety?

With zero or one major injuries, yes. Two plus and we\'re hosed. Gleason is a special teams animal, but a downfield landmine.

Does Fred Thomas have enough left - especially against the ever-larger and faster WRs?

He\'s got gas in the tank and the heart of a lion, but he can\'t give up 6-8 inches of height and still make the plays we need. See my above Tebucky comments for what I think Haslett may try in these situations.

Is Craft worthy of starting or just another might be?

Well, he\'s faster than Ambrose, but it remains to see what his instincts will be. Plus he\'s only an inch taller than Freddie T. I think \"might be\" will be his eventual category.

What happens if one of them gets hurt? Is Ambrose up to the task?

As a nickle back, yes. As a starting corner, nope. If Craft or Fred go down and we don\'t make a major personnel move, start counting on dem Tigers for post-season fun.

Will Grant or Watson emerge as a capable starting NFL MLB?

This may be the big question for our D. If one of them does (and I think both of them eventually will) we will see major improvement. If not, prepare to watch lots of footage of Ruff and D. Smith jogging up to help Tebucky/Fred/Mel out of tackle piles.

Who is going to play outside?

Sedrick Hodge at SLB. I don\'t think he\'s big enough, and he\'s probably better suited at WLB, but Haz seems hell-bent on putting him on the strong side. I think Cie Grant and Watson stand a real chance of snookering the WLB spot away from Rodgers (whoever doesn\'t win the MLB that is).

Does Rodgers have enough left to keep playing at even an average level?

No. Too old, too slow.

Will Allen or Hodge ever play up to expectations?

I think so with Hodge. I think he\'d do better at WLB where he can run guys down from behind and blind-side rush, a-la LT, but I think if he continues to bulk up and adds the strength to throw off the OL in the second-tier, he\'ll give us what we drafted him for. Allen, on the other hand, is a bust. Pure and simple.

Can Howard stay healthy?

Yes. Last year\'s injury was a total fluke deal.

Can Sully slim down and buck up or was he a 2 first rounder bust?

He\'d better slim down, or he\'ll watch Leslie, Kenny Smith, Young and the 2 LSU boys take his snaps. I often question our personnel logic, but I like the willingness to jettison dead weight (no pun intended).

Is Young disruptive or just undersized?

I think he can be disruptive enough. He\'ll do o.k. for a year or two, but in the larger plan, he\'s a stop gap and not the eventual answer.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Well, that\'s it for now. So sayeth SaintShreve...

no_cloning · 06-03-2004, 04:57 PM

The topic still is if the Saints should go after Trotter, right? I\'m all for it. Like Bise I would rather see a veteran at the MLB spot.
If the coaches were NOT saying how well Watson and Grant look in practice, that would really surprise me. We will know when we see them on the field. Basically starting two rookies as linebackers is risky. If nothing else Trotter would serve as an insurance.

Now to the other subject at hand (just weighing in with my opinion): Why I am more optimistic now than I was in June 2003:
1. A relatively young team has matured one year
2. Defensive players know their teammates
3. New defensive line coach
4. McCarthy may have learned something from last season
5. No important free agent/retirement losses, added some interesting players through the draft

SaintShreve · 06-03-2004, 05:08 PM

Cie Grant\'s no rookie. He\'s technically a \"veteran\" now

GumboBC · 06-03-2004, 05:11 PM

I don\'t know that he see\'s it so much differently. I don\'t think he would ever be so positive as to assume we\'d win the division (I don\'t remember seeing him type that), but he did say 9-7...sneak into the playoffs...and how frustrating that would be cause it\'d buy Haz another year.

Did I just defend Whodat? Looks like I\'m drinkin\' too much these days!

:P

saintfan -- Never doubt me.

When I tell you WhoDat picked us to win the division, you can take it to the bank. If I tell you a flea can pull a wagon, hitch him up... :P

I enter into evidence:

Originally Quoted By WhoDat:
Tough, tough, tough. At this point it is hard to tell. I think Carolina won a lot of close games last year, it was the textbook cinderella story. I imagine their LUCK (ha ha) will run out this year and they, like most Super Bowl teams of recent, will fall to mediocrity.

Their passing attack improved steadily throughout the year, but everyone knows the story. Stack the line, stop Davis and Foster, and then put pressure on Delhomme and keep Steve Smith in front of you. Their defense will still be tough, but I think they will be around .500.

Atlanta will get much better simply by bringing Vick back into the fold. Plus, I think Mora Jr. will have their defense playing well by year\'s end. Atlanta will improve the most. How much is another question. My guess is they end up around .500 also but play really well down the stretch (which is bad b/c that\'s when we play them twice).

Tampa seems unimpressive to me. Gruden is a great coach, but that team is just devoid of playmakers. Rice and Brooks are about it. With Charles Lee and now Clayton, their passing game should get better. They still won\'t be able to run the ball and their defense will not be what it was, or has been.

Honestly, if I had to pick a favorite right now, I would have to say our Saints. We\'re the most talented, we need the fewest big changes to help our team improve. Don\'t get me wrong, we might only hang around .500 too, but...

This is all subject to change, of course, but I really think the difference b/w first and last in our division might be two or three games this year. You might see 10-6, 9-7, 8-8, 7-9.

Screw it - in my new attempt to be more upbeat about the 04 season, I\'ll say:

1. Saints
2. Falcons
3. Carolina
4. Bucs

Go Saints!

[Edited on 4/6/2004 by GumboBC]

SaintShreve · 06-03-2004, 05:14 PM

1. A relatively young team has matured one year
2. Defensive players know their teammates
3. New defensive line coach
4. McCarthy may have learned something from last season
5. No important free agent/retirement losses, added some interesting players through the draft

I agree with #1 and #2. And I don\'t think Clancy was the problem last year as much as Big Wiggle\'s Wings and K-Paul\'s for # 3. I hope McCarthy learned (dear Lord, please let him learn). And I think we may find Terrell Smith a bigger loss than you think. Gash is a solid guy, but he\'s no spring chicken. T. Smith canceled a lot of OL mistakes last year but bustin\' heads.

All in all, I agree with you though. We should do better, but should and will get along as well as Kobe and Shaq.

For what it\'s worth, I\'d grab Trotter, put him in the middle and Grant/Watson at WLB.

no_cloning · 06-03-2004, 05:23 PM

In defense of WhoDat ...
\"Oh, he\'s such an optimist right now, he has turned 180 degrees from the same time last season, now he\'s even predicting a winning season at 9-7. Unbelievable, is that still the same WhoDat we know?\"
Perception, all about perception ...
WhoDat, May 30th 2003 :
\"Sorry guys, call me the pessimist but I say 9-7\"

GumboBC · 06-03-2004, 05:28 PM

In defense of WhoDat ...
\"Oh, he\'s such an optimist right now, he has turned 180 degrees from the same time last season, now he\'s even predicting a winning season at 9-7. Unbelievable, is that still the same WhoDat we know?\"
Perception, all about perception ...
WhoDat, May 30th 2003 :
\"Sorry guys, call me the pessimist but I say 9-7\"

LMAO :P Too funny.

Now I admit, WhoDat isn\'t exactly what I\'d call an optimist!! :P He\'s probably one of the guys that\'s got a basement full of bottled water and canned goods and is waiting on the world to come and end :P :P

But, never the less. He said we would win the NFC South. From WhoDat, that\'s optimisim folks. I\'m sure he just forgot he said it. Probably worried about paying off his bookie...

[Edited on 3/6/2004 by GumboBC]

[Edited on 4/6/2004 by GumboBC]

WhoDat · 06-04-2004, 09:43 AM

Billy, Billy, Billy.

You got called out again, and again you\'re wrong. It\'s funny, it just keeps happening and you can\'t see it.

We very well may have a different STARTER at safety, corner, two linebacker positions, and DT. That\'s FIVE positions. Almost half. Still, my prediction was 8-8 or 9-7. I will admit that I never settled on either. So this year, when I say 9-7, I guess that I don\'t view this team so differently.

Now Billy, if you want to think I believe this team will win the division b/c of one post when I was trying to be a little optimistic, go right ahead. Shall I dig up posts when you said that Haslett deserves to be fired and Brooks deserves to be benched? They DO exist. I will be happy to find them.

In any case, your style of argument remains:
1. Whodat thinks things will be much different with the SAME team. Why?
2. Whodat predicted 9-7 last year and 9-7 this year... see that different... er... right?

So which is it Billy? Is the \"perception\" of me wrong? Or am I so up on what equates to the same team?

My tune hasn\'t changed Billy. It\'s been the same for a while. This team is way too talented not to be in the playoffs. The Saints almost have the players in place to make a SB run. They generally need upgrades at a few key spots. Year in and year out the coaches address those position INADEQUATELY (i.e. with the wrong players). Further, this team continues to underachieve, mainly b/c Haslett is outcoached time and again. They are talented but undisciplined and constantly underachieve.

I stand behind that view. Maybe they win the SB this season and Haslett and some key players prove me totally wrong. OK. Until that time, I stick by my guns.

Shall we discuss how your opinion has changed over the last year or so? We\'re going 13-3, Haslett deserves to get fired, we\'ll be 10-6 and make the playoffs. The model of consistency - no wonder you like AB so much.

WhoDat · 06-04-2004, 09:44 AM

PS - Saintfan - WHAT? Amazing. Keep the WhoTang flowing my friend. The post was dually noted...

saintfan · 06-04-2004, 09:49 AM

I\'m just trying to build up points for later use. Don\'t get too excited. LMAO

06-03-2004, 04:54 PM	#31
SaintShreve Rookie Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Shreveport, LA Posts: 16	MLB - Jeremiah Trotter a Saint? John Clayton says.... well, since we\'re into predictions around here... Will Tbuck be the guy we pay him to be or just a tackle-missing highlight reel again? I think our safety play will be much improved this year. Tebucky tried to do too much last year and misjudged way too many plays on the Dome turf. He\'ll settle in with Mitchell or Bellamy and be more effective this year. I also expect Haslett to use him in some CB situations against some of our more freakishly-sized WR opponents, e.g. T.O., Moss and use Bellamy as FS with Mel at SS Is Mitchell healthy? Yes. He\'ll be fine. If he gets injured this year, it won\'t be because of his knee. His knee should be 100% going into Summer. Can Bellamy play that well again or was last year a fluke? Fluke I think. I\'d love to say it was real, but he stunk it up for so long at his \"natural\" FS position. I think his numbers looked better because more tackle opportunities were coming his way - see last year\'s Run D numbers for evidence. Do we have enough depth at safety? With zero or one major injuries, yes. Two plus and we\'re hosed. Gleason is a special teams animal, but a downfield landmine. Does Fred Thomas have enough left - especially against the ever-larger and faster WRs? He\'s got gas in the tank and the heart of a lion, but he can\'t give up 6-8 inches of height and still make the plays we need. See my above Tebucky comments for what I think Haslett may try in these situations. Is Craft worthy of starting or just another might be? Well, he\'s faster than Ambrose, but it remains to see what his instincts will be. Plus he\'s only an inch taller than Freddie T. I think \"might be\" will be his eventual category. What happens if one of them gets hurt? Is Ambrose up to the task? As a nickle back, yes. As a starting corner, nope. If Craft or Fred go down and we don\'t make a major personnel move, start counting on dem Tigers for post-season fun. Will Grant or Watson emerge as a capable starting NFL MLB? This may be the big question for our D. If one of them does (and I think both of them eventually will) we will see major improvement. If not, prepare to watch lots of footage of Ruff and D. Smith jogging up to help Tebucky/Fred/Mel out of tackle piles. Who is going to play outside? Sedrick Hodge at SLB. I don\'t think he\'s big enough, and he\'s probably better suited at WLB, but Haz seems hell-bent on putting him on the strong side. I think Cie Grant and Watson stand a real chance of snookering the WLB spot away from Rodgers (whoever doesn\'t win the MLB that is). Does Rodgers have enough left to keep playing at even an average level? No. Too old, too slow. Will Allen or Hodge ever play up to expectations? I think so with Hodge. I think he\'d do better at WLB where he can run guys down from behind and blind-side rush, a-la LT, but I think if he continues to bulk up and adds the strength to throw off the OL in the second-tier, he\'ll give us what we drafted him for. Allen, on the other hand, is a bust. Pure and simple. Can Howard stay healthy? Yes. Last year\'s injury was a total fluke deal. Can Sully slim down and buck up or was he a 2 first rounder bust? He\'d better slim down, or he\'ll watch Leslie, Kenny Smith, Young and the 2 LSU boys take his snaps. I often question our personnel logic, but I like the willingness to jettison dead weight (no pun intended). Is Young disruptive or just undersized? I think he can be disruptive enough. He\'ll do o.k. for a year or two, but in the larger plan, he\'s a stop gap and not the eventual answer. --------------------------------------------------------------- Well, that\'s it for now. So sayeth SaintShreve...
	Every man knows he is a sissy when compared to Johnny Cash... - U2\'s Bono

06-03-2004, 04:57 PM	#32
no_cloning 100th Post Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 249	MLB - Jeremiah Trotter a Saint? John Clayton says.... The topic still is if the Saints should go after Trotter, right? I\'m all for it. Like Bise I would rather see a veteran at the MLB spot. If the coaches were NOT saying how well Watson and Grant look in practice, that would really surprise me. We will know when we see them on the field. Basically starting two rookies as linebackers is risky. If nothing else Trotter would serve as an insurance. Now to the other subject at hand (just weighing in with my opinion): Why I am more optimistic now than I was in June 2003: 1. A relatively young team has matured one year 2. Defensive players know their teammates 3. New defensive line coach 4. McCarthy may have learned something from last season 5. No important free agent/retirement losses, added some interesting players through the draft
no_cloning 100th Post Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 249

06-03-2004, 05:08 PM	#33
SaintShreve Rookie Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Shreveport, LA Posts: 16	MLB - Jeremiah Trotter a Saint? John Clayton says.... Cie Grant\'s no rookie. He\'s technically a \"veteran\" now

06-03-2004, 05:11 PM	#34
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	MLB - Jeremiah Trotter a Saint? John Clayton says.... I don\'t know that he see\'s it so much differently. I don\'t think he would ever be so positive as to assume we\'d win the division (I don\'t remember seeing him type that), but he did say 9-7...sneak into the playoffs...and how frustrating that would be cause it\'d buy Haz another year. Did I just defend Whodat? Looks like I\'m drinkin\' too much these days! :P saintfan -- Never doubt me. When I tell you WhoDat picked us to win the division, you can take it to the bank. If I tell you a flea can pull a wagon, hitch him up... :P I enter into evidence: Originally Quoted By WhoDat: Tough, tough, tough. At this point it is hard to tell. I think Carolina won a lot of close games last year, it was the textbook cinderella story. I imagine their LUCK (ha ha) will run out this year and they, like most Super Bowl teams of recent, will fall to mediocrity. Their passing attack improved steadily throughout the year, but everyone knows the story. Stack the line, stop Davis and Foster, and then put pressure on Delhomme and keep Steve Smith in front of you. Their defense will still be tough, but I think they will be around .500. Atlanta will get much better simply by bringing Vick back into the fold. Plus, I think Mora Jr. will have their defense playing well by year\'s end. Atlanta will improve the most. How much is another question. My guess is they end up around .500 also but play really well down the stretch (which is bad b/c that\'s when we play them twice). Tampa seems unimpressive to me. Gruden is a great coach, but that team is just devoid of playmakers. Rice and Brooks are about it. With Charles Lee and now Clayton, their passing game should get better. They still won\'t be able to run the ball and their defense will not be what it was, or has been. Honestly, if I had to pick a favorite right now, I would have to say our Saints. We\'re the most talented, we need the fewest big changes to help our team improve. Don\'t get me wrong, we might only hang around .500 too, but... This is all subject to change, of course, but I really think the difference b/w first and last in our division might be two or three games this year. You might see 10-6, 9-7, 8-8, 7-9. Screw it - in my new attempt to be more upbeat about the 04 season, I\'ll say: 1. Saints 2. Falcons 3. Carolina 4. Bucs Go Saints! [Edited on 4/6/2004 by GumboBC]
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

06-03-2004, 05:14 PM	#35
SaintShreve Rookie Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Shreveport, LA Posts: 16	MLB - Jeremiah Trotter a Saint? John Clayton says.... 1. A relatively young team has matured one year 2. Defensive players know their teammates 3. New defensive line coach 4. McCarthy may have learned something from last season 5. No important free agent/retirement losses, added some interesting players through the draft I agree with #1 and #2. And I don\'t think Clancy was the problem last year as much as Big Wiggle\'s Wings and K-Paul\'s for # 3. I hope McCarthy learned (dear Lord, please let him learn). And I think we may find Terrell Smith a bigger loss than you think. Gash is a solid guy, but he\'s no spring chicken. T. Smith canceled a lot of OL mistakes last year but bustin\' heads. All in all, I agree with you though. We should do better, but should and will get along as well as Kobe and Shaq. For what it\'s worth, I\'d grab Trotter, put him in the middle and Grant/Watson at WLB.
	Every man knows he is a sissy when compared to Johnny Cash... - U2\'s Bono

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06-03-2004, 05:23 PM	#36
no_cloning 100th Post Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 249	MLB - Jeremiah Trotter a Saint? John Clayton says.... In defense of WhoDat ... \"Oh, he\'s such an optimist right now, he has turned 180 degrees from the same time last season, now he\'s even predicting a winning season at 9-7. Unbelievable, is that still the same WhoDat we know?\" Perception, all about perception ... WhoDat, May 30th 2003 : \"Sorry guys, call me the pessimist but I say 9-7\"
no_cloning 100th Post Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 249

06-03-2004, 05:28 PM	#37
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	MLB - Jeremiah Trotter a Saint? John Clayton says.... In defense of WhoDat ... \"Oh, he\'s such an optimist right now, he has turned 180 degrees from the same time last season, now he\'s even predicting a winning season at 9-7. Unbelievable, is that still the same WhoDat we know?\" Perception, all about perception ... WhoDat, May 30th 2003 : \"Sorry guys, call me the pessimist but I say 9-7\" LMAO :P Too funny. Now I admit, WhoDat isn\'t exactly what I\'d call an optimist!! :P He\'s probably one of the guys that\'s got a basement full of bottled water and canned goods and is waiting on the world to come and end :P :P But, never the less. He said we would win the NFC South. From WhoDat, that\'s optimisim folks. I\'m sure he just forgot he said it. Probably worried about paying off his bookie... [Edited on 3/6/2004 by GumboBC] [Edited on 4/6/2004 by GumboBC]
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

06-04-2004, 09:43 AM	#38
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	MLB - Jeremiah Trotter a Saint? John Clayton says.... Billy, Billy, Billy. You got called out again, and again you\'re wrong. It\'s funny, it just keeps happening and you can\'t see it. We very well may have a different STARTER at safety, corner, two linebacker positions, and DT. That\'s FIVE positions. Almost half. Still, my prediction was 8-8 or 9-7. I will admit that I never settled on either. So this year, when I say 9-7, I guess that I don\'t view this team so differently. Now Billy, if you want to think I believe this team will win the division b/c of one post when I was trying to be a little optimistic, go right ahead. Shall I dig up posts when you said that Haslett deserves to be fired and Brooks deserves to be benched? They DO exist. I will be happy to find them. In any case, your style of argument remains: 1. Whodat thinks things will be much different with the SAME team. Why? 2. Whodat predicted 9-7 last year and 9-7 this year... see that different... er... right? So which is it Billy? Is the \"perception\" of me wrong? Or am I so up on what equates to the same team? My tune hasn\'t changed Billy. It\'s been the same for a while. This team is way too talented not to be in the playoffs. The Saints almost have the players in place to make a SB run. They generally need upgrades at a few key spots. Year in and year out the coaches address those position INADEQUATELY (i.e. with the wrong players). Further, this team continues to underachieve, mainly b/c Haslett is outcoached time and again. They are talented but undisciplined and constantly underachieve. I stand behind that view. Maybe they win the SB this season and Haslett and some key players prove me totally wrong. OK. Until that time, I stick by my guns. Shall we discuss how your opinion has changed over the last year or so? We\'re going 13-3, Haslett deserves to get fired, we\'ll be 10-6 and make the playoffs. The model of consistency - no wonder you like AB so much.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

06-04-2004, 09:44 AM	#39
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	MLB - Jeremiah Trotter a Saint? John Clayton says.... PS - Saintfan - WHAT? Amazing. Keep the WhoTang flowing my friend. The post was dually noted...
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

06-04-2004, 09:49 AM	#40
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	MLB - Jeremiah Trotter a Saint? John Clayton says.... I\'m just trying to build up points for later use. Don\'t get too excited. LMAO