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I told ya, yes I did...

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; PS - The dead horse thing was pretty dang funny! PPS - I hate this debate too....

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Old 06-18-2004, 02:09 PM   #31
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I told ya, yes I did...

PS - The dead horse thing was pretty dang funny!

PPS - I hate this debate too.
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Old 06-18-2004, 08:58 PM   #32
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I told ya, yes I did...

Straight up WOULD IT SHOCK ANY OF YOU IF JAKE WERE TO PLAY GREAT AGAIN NEXT YEAR?
Gatorman --

You are from the same area as Jake Delhomme and obviously you are a big supporter of his. There\'s nothing wrong with that. But, I want to be honest and up front about my feelings towards Delhomme.

I\'m not going to be like some of the Brooks bashers and claim to pull for him only to spew hate in every other breath. I call it like I see it and rightly or wrongly that\'s the way I see it.

So, as far as Delhomme is concerned. I don\'t like him. Can\'t stand the guy. It really has nothing to do with Delhomme personally. It has to do with MOST Delhomme supporters are Brooks bashers. Being that I\'m a Brooks supporter it puts me at odds with the Delhomme supporters.

You see, Brooks has been placed under the microscope by you and all the rest of the guys that are going around proclaiming Jakes greatness.

The way I see it is Brooks is cut no slack and Delhomme isn\'t held to the same standard.

Am I suppose to support Jake because he\'s a nice guy or because he\'s from Louisiana? Or maybe because he used to play for the Saints? Well, I don\'t. As a matter of fact he plays for a division rival and I wish nothing but the worst for him. I would hope that all Saints fans feel the same way.

Edit: To answer your question, Jake didn\'t play great last year and it would surprise the hell out of me if Jake played great this year.




[Edited on 19/6/2004 by GumboBC]
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Old 06-19-2004, 01:41 AM   #33
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Originally posted by Gatorman:
How would you respond to members who wrote this: I wish nothing but the worst for (Arron Brooks). I would hope that all Saints fans feel the same way. It would surprise the hell out of me if (Arron Brooks) played great this year.
I would feel like they weren\'t Saints fans. Since Aaron Brooks is the starting QB for the Saints.

Originally posted by Gatorman:
NARROW MINDED
1. having or showing a prejudiced mind, as persons or opinions; biased.
2. not receptive to new ideas; having a closed mind.
3. extremely conservative and morally self-righteous


Prejudiced?
Prejudiced? Yes, I am prejudiced against Jake. But, at least I\'m honest. Which is more than I can for say for___________________. You fill in the blank.

Originally posted by Gatorman:
So open yourself up to the idea all Jake supporters are not AB bashers and all AB bashers may not be Jake supporters. Thats a false assumption that leads to AB being inserted into a Jake D. post.
NEVER did I say all Delhomme supporters are Brooks bashers. I said MOST. And I stand by that statement. Do I have proof? NOPE!! But, that\'s my opinion.

So, open yourself up to the FACT that YOU and a lot of other folks are using different scales to judge AB and Delhomme. You know, having an open mind works well for other folks too.

Originally posted by Gatorman:
Again best of luck to Jake except when we are playing the Panthers.
There\'s some of that crazy logic again. So, you want the Panthers to win every game except the 2 they play against us? That means Carolina will finish 14-2. Or at least that\'s what you\'re hoping. Are you sure you\'re not too much of a Panther fan? That\'s going to be mighty hard for the Saints to match.

Maybe you might not should wish the Panthers so much success?
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Old 06-19-2004, 02:20 AM   #34
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Alright, I can\'t help myself now.

(1) Gator is right about part of this: \"Jake wiil prove to be a great NFL QB regardless of what Brooks does. \" Jake and Aaron are totally different people - and it is obvious to me that the success of one has NOTHING to do with the success of the other. Which QB is better - doesn\'t that require MUCH MORE evidence than we have? I\'d say.

(2) Would it surprise me that Jake would do great again next season? Well, sorta yeah. This idea of \"great\" \"again\" puzzles me. It is not clear that he was \"great\" last season, so \"again\" seems out of place. It is not clear to me that on the basis of one season where a clear running team did well that the QB should get that much praise, let alone a prediction of future \"greatness\". If Jake has a solid season this year, then I think we will have some good evidence about how good he is. Until then it surprises me that people are willing to say that he will definitely be great - on those grounds we ought to still be saying how great Haz is after he lead us to the playoffs a total of ONE time. What Jake did last year is no more or no less than what Haz (or AB for that matter) did for us that year (as far as evidence of goodness goes)! Now, there is no one here who is going to say that AB or Haz are GREAT based on that one year - why would we say this of Jake after ONE such performance? That seems strange.

(3) To go with BnB on this, why are we talking about this? It seems to me that we have some idea of how good AB is, but we have very little evidence about how good Jake is - one season does not make for a reasonable induction (i.e. prediction) about the future greatness of any player - just look at any of the leagues \"one hit wonders\".

"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks :cool:
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Old 06-19-2004, 08:14 AM   #35
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I disagree... I think you are going to see Jake unravel. He is a solid QB a great 2nd string but when he is going to have to win a game instead of luck his time will run out. Now don\'t get me wrong Jake I like but as far as a stud qb... he isn\'t in the top 10 that I would draft first out of the starting qb\'s in the NFL.

DB\'s - we have ample... people keep saying we don\'t have depth because we don\'t have that Shut down corner...
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Old 06-19-2004, 09:21 AM   #36
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Man, Gator and Billy going head to head, BnB talking about ripping new azzholes, this is getting fun.

I\'ve got a couple of things I need to get out on this.

1. Props to Saintfan. I\'m big enough to admit I was wrong and he was right on this one. I knew that the Panthers would sign Jake to a long term deal, but I really didn\'t expect them to throw $40 mill at the guy. Saintfan said they would, and he was right.

2. Billy, you just keep on doing it.
I rank Jake Delhomme in the bottom 10 of QB\'s in the NFL. I\'m glad Jake is in our division, cause he doesn\'t scare me NONE. I think Jake is the weak link to that team. I wish every team had a Jake Delhomme.
Ha ha ha. So in your mind, Jake Delhomme\'s year last year was worse that these other starting QBs last season:
Doug Johnson
Jeff Blake
Tommy Maddox
Kordell Stewart
Vinny Testeverde
David Carr
Joey Harrington
Patrick Ramsey
Drew Brees
Rich Gannon
Tim Couch
Kelly Holcomb
Jay Fiedler

And that\'s just off the top of my head. Jake Delhomme\'s year as a first year starter was as good or better than Brooks\' first year as a starter considering EVERYTHING that goes into the equation, not just TD passes and Yards. But like Saintfan said, tkae Brooks out of the equation. Delhomme, in his first year as a starter, played better all year long than a lot of other veteran QBs. He also did one very important thing - he got better every week.

I think the problem here is that you cannot seperate Delhomme from Brooks. You must hate Delhomme to support your love for Brooks. Why is that? In any event, you\'ve given us another bold statement, the accuracu of which I will enjoy tracking over the next season.

Well, he must be better than Peyton Manning too, right? If not, then quit bringing up the super bowl!! That\'s just crazy logic to try and justify Delhomme\'s contract.
Of course he is. I mean, I equate the word Manning with the word loser. But I\'d still trade Jake with Peyton straight up. LMAO!! I\'d stay away from Peyton comparisons from now on Billy.


Frankly, I wouldn\'t be surprised either way with Delhomme this season. The way he progressed last year was impressive. He very well may continue that trend. He may also hit the sophomore slump that many young QBs face, like uh, I don\'t know, Aaron Brooks had.

To me the point is and has always been value. Unless Jake breaks at least into the top 10 QBs in the league then the Panthers are overpaying. I\'m not sure that\'s the kind of guy Delhomme is. He seems better fit to be a Trent Dilfer to me than to be a Peyton, Culpepper, or even a throw back to Montana (though there are some similarities there).

Either way, I\'m happy that the guy made it and I think given his ability and work ethic, he will do well and will probably prove that he deserves it.

\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse


\"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\"
he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"
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Old 06-19-2004, 10:30 AM   #37
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I think the problem here is that you cannot seperate Delhomme from Brooks. You must hate Delhomme to support your love for Brooks. Why is that? In any event, you\'ve given us another bold statement, the accuracu of which I will enjoy tracking over the next season.
Hey, I\'m on record as saying I don\'t like Delhomme. At least I\'m tellin\' ya straight up where I stand. Unlike you on Aaron Brooks -- I don\'t ride the fence on the issue.

In my mind you can\'t stand Brooks. The proof is there. You just won\'t admit it. For whatever reason.

It\'s a pretty well know fact that MOST Brooks bashers are staunch Delhomme supporters and that has turned me on Delhomme. Sure, it might be silly, but call me silly. :P

For me, it\'s a game within the game. I have my teams and players I pull for and against. It\'s just something that makes every Sunday a little more enjoyable. I think we all do that to a certain degree.

You and some others here have just made me not like Delhomme. Ya know what I mean?
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Old 06-19-2004, 10:55 AM   #38
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Silly!
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Old 06-19-2004, 11:07 AM   #39
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Fine Euph, we\'ll discuss this.

I say we have no depth at CB, and it has nothing to do with this silly concept of a \"shut down corner\" whatever the fudge that is. Here is why:

(1) Depth defined: having at least one vetran who can step up and start for a few games if the starter is out - taken from an earlier discussion.
(2) Vetran defined: has more than 3 years NFL experience and has started at the position in question at least on occassion - ok that is mine, but sounds reasonable to me.

Our CBs:
Starters: Craft, Thomas
Nickle: Ambrose
Backups: Brown, Brooks, Craver, and some other guys that I can\'t think of off the top of my head - which is probably a bad sign.

Depth? Ambrose is the only one who even comes close to qualifying, and I\'m pretty sure the second game he has to start teams go after him with quicker WRs and beat him (I really like Ambrose, but in a foot race, his best days have passed).

Thus, we are not deep at CB.

What the heck is a \"shut down corner\" anyway? Are these two examples of shut down corners? Deon Sanders and Champ Bailey? There can\'t be too many guys like that, so it would be ridiculous to say that a team needed such a guy to be deep at CB. Also, who really wants a Deon - he is a scheme nightmare, you have to protect him so he doesn\'t have to stop the run! A burden and not a boon, I\'d say.

Would it make me happy if we had a guy who could take away a #2 WR? Heck yeah - that\'s what I think could make our defense dominant! However, do we need such a guy? No. Do I think we need another guy who can start at corner (even if he makes us a little nervous) to play behind Thomas, Craft, Brown, and Ambrose? Damn straight we do.

"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks :cool:
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Old 06-19-2004, 12:13 PM   #40
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Who\'s better when the game is on the line? Brooks or Delhomme? Check this out....


Passer Rating by Down:
FIRST DOWN 93.2 -Jake
FIRST DOWN 95.0 - Aaron

SECOND DOWN 76.7 - Jake
SECOND DOWN 79.9 - Aaron

THIRD DOWN 65.3 - Jake
THIRD DOWN 93.7 - Aaron




Passer Rating by Quarter:
1ST QUARTER 68.8 - Delhomme
1ST QUARTER 81.7 - Brooks

2ND QUARTER 69.3 - Delhomme
2ND QUARTER 98.9 - Brooks

3RD QUARTER 97.5 - Delhomme
3RD QUARTER 77.5 - Brooks

4TH QUARTER 88.2 - Delhomme
4TH QUARTER 92.8 - Brooks

FOURTH QUARTER WITHIN 7 -- 91.3 - Delhomme
FOURTH QUARTER WITHIN 7 -- 93.5 - Brooks

OVERTIME 23.8 - Delhomme
OVERTIME 118.8 - Brooks

On critical 3rd downs, Dehomme is terrible with a paser rating of 65.3. Brooks is great with a passer rating of 93.7.

In the crtical 4th quarter Delhomme is very good with a passer rating of 88.2. But, Brooks is better with a passer rating of 92.8.

In overtime when everything is on the line. Delhomme is terrible with a QB rating of 23.8. Brooks is fantastic with a QB rating of 118.8.

Who do you want for your QB?







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