Hartley or Kasay?
 

Tough choice, Kasey has had such a great career and is money on anything within 35 yds or so, the kicks that Hartley seems to have problems with but he is getting up there in age and will probably only be good for another year or two. Hartley on the other hand while he scares me, he has the potential to nail one over 50 yds every time and I would hate to let him go for another team to pick up and then have to address our kicker needs in another year or two when Kasey is done.

Hartley Super Bowl winning kicker.

He is my pick too. Kasey has had one hell of a career, almost a Morton Anderson, but is close to being put out to pasture.

Agreed, I think Kasey is great and you know it's really got to bug Carolina fans that he's kicking for the Saints, but if only one could make the roster, I'd have to go with Hartley. He should be a round for another decade.

Kasay.

REally? And address the position in another year or two when there likely won't be anyone better than Hartley anyway?

Harley's leg has healed. His leg is much stronger. He'll probably win the starting job.

Kasey isn't going anywhere. He'll be on staff as a coach and ready to backup Kasey in case of an injury.

With Morstead kicking off, there's no way we keep 3 kickers.... but a starter and a "mentor coach" has worked well for us.

So Hartley on the roster as a starter and Kasey could be coach and then sign on to the roster if Hartley is injured?

That's my prediction. Doesn't sound like Kasey is going anywhere.... Would you?
Kasey's last hurra, even as a consultant/kicking coach, at the Saints!

Last hope of finally getting that Superbowl ring. And Kasey could be around another 3 years.

Nope not at all. Wish they would have done that with Sharper.

Hartley needs to settle down on the kicks 30 yards or closer

He tries to smash them like he's trying to make a 60 yarder and ends up shanking it wide

He's money from long range as evidenced in the superbowl, but doesn't need to treat a 20 yarder like a 50 yarder

Kasay is MONEY

Hartley is ... well... You say Super bowl (answer question at bottom please)... I say Atlanta Falcons.... The boy has been on the decline since the start of his career. At a position where consistency is EVERYTHING, Hartley is not.
2008 100%
2009 81.8%
2010 80%

I know what your saying... Thats 80%!!! If drew completed 80% of his passes he would be immortalized!!!!! and you are correct, but for FG kickers.... Hartley's 80% puts him 28th in the league in 2010

How he stands in the 2010 season

1-19 yards -100%
20-28 yards 67%---38th in the LEAGUE!!! With only 32 teams some second string kickers are more consistent than he is.
30-39 yards 78% 33rd in the LEAGUE!!!!
40-49 yards 86% 10th
50+ yards 100% 2-2 <----- The importance of game winning 50+ yard FGs for us is not that high.. Brees and Co. can get the ball down the field. Also with the change in the over time rules the 50+ yard field goal in OT is no longer needed.

Kasay has not been under 81.5 since 2006.

I always have to ask this question.. What frikken Super Bowl did Hartley win? We won by 14 points!!!! Hartley kicked 3 field goals.. that only 9 points, leaving a 4 point victory. Even if he missed both of his extra points we still win by 2.

Btw, it's spelled Kasay, not Kasey.

Hartley has missed two field goals so far during training camp, one of them a 25 yarder wide left! SOUND FAMILIAR??? Kasay, on the other hand, hasn't missed anything.

He had a magical run in the 2009 season, but Hartley is going to give us all chest pains. And even during that 2009 season, he botched a kick wide left from short distance against the stupid Buccaneers.

If not for Hartley, we would not have been in the Superbowl... He's still at the beginning of his career and Kasay is at the end of his... The answer is obvious

If I remember correctly Hartley is under contract with us for some years to come. Does not make sense for him to ride the bench.

I'm with Mitch on this one.

It was the timeliness of the kicks, when we needed something, anything to keep us close, and to give us "something" he did it. 3 from over 50, no one else has done it in a Super Bowl. Although outcome was more, I believe it was a clutch, huge performance. Timeliness is everything.

It's a tough call because Hartley was brought in specifically to be THE GUY, who was going to solve all of Payton's kicking problems that the Saints had early in his time here, and really even before Payton was here. Gramatica and all that. Payton got burned by kickers early on, it really bit him BAD, and Hartley was supposed to be "the fix." Which is why Payton said "you deserve to be here" before the famous kick, and why Payton is so willing to stand behind him, long term.

I can't corroborate this, but the story I heard through the grapevine was that Hartley's bad slump back there in 2010 where he missed a bunch of kicks, the Falcons game that everybody hates him for, the wobbly kicks and and all that, I heard it was caused by personal problems he was having, emotional problems, just general success and girlfriend type problems,24 year old kid who is suddenly rich and famous, those type problems. He's definitely a "head case" kicker, but supposedly that has all been fixed now.

I am aware that is all just sorta water cooler talk and rumor, but the same guy who told me this has been right about a bunch of other stuff before. In local politics, when a scandal breaks, he usually knows who Jim Letten is going to indict a day or two in advance; he knew non-public details about the other Hornets deals with other owners that didn't go through before Benson finally bought them-- this is from a source I know who tends to always have the scoop on that type of stuff. So if he says that Hartley's head is screwed on straight these days, I kinda believe him.

The comeback from injury I guess we don't know about yet. The missing kicks in camp is news to me, so I dunno.

The safe pick is Kasay. Hartley is younger and holds a Super Bowl record and ring. But, he's also been suspended, benched, and missed a year due to injuries. By the reports from camp, he's also pulled a couple to the left whereas Kasay has been perfect. You have to look to the future, but in regards to kickers, the future is now.

Then let's keep "Shank-ley" as the "Coach" until Kasay starts shanking 7-yard field goals to win a game, OR he swings his friggin' leg and pulls up hurt.

Like Hartley did. I've never forgiven him for his giveaways. Just can't do it.

Kasay is MONEY.

Alaska

We traded Reggie Bush, for God's sake!!! We gotta keep "Shank-ley"??!!

Alaska

Hartley has yet to even play a full season. Some of that wasn't his fault, but some of it was. 2008 he was 100% on his FGs, but only was there for half of the season. 2009, he had that drug testing issue and missed most of the season while Carney kicked. From there, he had 2 great games, which happened to be the 2 most important games in Saints history. Then 2010 he kicks himself back onto the bench for 3 or 4 games while Carney takes back over. 2011 he gets injured.

He always deserves his place in Saints history, but he's far from irreplacable.

I like the idea of keeping Kasay as a kicker coach. Hartley seems to have had one problem after another. And with kickers fragile psyche it has affected his game. Keep the boy and let him kick.........if he doesn't do well, then it's time for Kasay.

Gotta go with Hartley. The Minny game keeps coming up. Not the kick he made but the kick Minny didn't . Put the Saints in the same situation as Minny, with Hartley you would play it safer and let him kick.

Best percentage in the median distance which is probably around mid 30's. Whoever does that wins the position. If we start losing a bunch of games because we can't hit 45-50 yarders then the problem is much deeper than a missed field goal.

Whoever has the better camp, and keeps it between the poles!

Some of the pro-Hartley reasons I'm seeing remind me of the reasons why many people (myself included, I must admit) stayed on the Aaron Brooks bandwagon way too long. "But Brooks looks unstoppable sometimes, and he gave us our first playoff win". Same with Hartley...."he has a strong leg and took us to our first and only Super Bowl". Eventually there comes a point where you have to say "thanks for the highlight reel memories" and move forward.

Like it or not, it's a league of what-CAN-you-do-for-us-lately...

Thank you. He made some historical kicks... Would Kasay have missed them?
He also missed some kicks that would have made life easier.. (Atlanta).. Would Kasay have made them?

As far as for his age

Anderson - 25 seasons kicked until he was 47 years old
Kasay- 21 Seasons he is 42 years old

Kasay still has 4 in the tank.


So Hartley is:
Unreliable as a kicker
Can not play an entire season (averages 6.75 games a season)

How about this one... Because he cant seem to play an entire season he is TOO EXPENSIVE.. We have to have two kickers because of his in-dependability.

Loyal to a fault is a real occurrence.

If I had to guess, they'll probably go with Hartley over Kasay if the competition is dead-even, with the mindset that they can always bring Kasay back if Hartley starts to suck. I'm ready to see Hartley move on, personally, but I'll keep an open mind for now.

Was it me... Or did Hayley's extra point kicks have an "angle" to them LOL?

Hartley to beat the Vikes, Hartley x3 in the Superbowl, Kid has a great leg and alot of talent. If the leg is good, just has to keep his head straight. We all just need therapy to recover from the kick missed against Atlanta, we have trust issues.

Were they good? That's all that matters...

I was wondering why they had Hartly doing ep and Kasey doing field goals. Seems to me if we think Hartley is our man, it would have been the other way around.

I imagine they will flip it in some of the other preseason games and have Hartley do the FG's and Kasay the extra points. It's only preseason, but my thought last night was that maybe Kasay is more experienced kicking on grass, so they let him handle the FGs.

Exactly what I was going to say to |Mitch|

There had to be a reason they put 1 point in the hands of Hartley and 3 in the hands of Kasay.

Hartley is going to be our kicker coming into the Season.... I think he is 100 %...

Also, adding to my post above, I just remembered it was on grass that Hartley injured himself in preseason last year. I bet they swap it around and we see him kicking FG's in one or two of the Dome or artificial turf games. If the guy can injure himself by just swinging his leg, with nobody else blocking or touching him or even in the general area, best not risk it in preseason when it doesn't even count.

If Shank-ley can't hit a straight extra-point, he demonstrates propensity to miss a field goal.

Tracy Porter was the hero of the Championship game and the Super Bowl. We didn't have a problem parting with HIM.

Kasay is MON-EY! That's all that matters THIS YEAR.

Alaska

One kick is one kick... We are only human... I have no issue with that one kick... Its just my retort for people who like to hold on to a player because of one play.

This is where I have the problem... Who in this forum would say they want a player like Kevin Kolb? Someone who has yet to complete a full season in their entire career? Hell thats some peoples main reason for not wanting Ivory.

Thats Garrett Hartley
4 game suspension in 2009
accuracy issues in 2010 (played 14 games)
injured himself in 2011


I know a lot of people ignore stats all together, and junk stats are just that... junk stats, but for kickers they tell a very important story because essentially it is the kicker, the ball, and goal posts. The situational elements like surface, stadium, wind, temp are what effects their accuracy. We are a dome team and play more than 1/2 our games in a dome.

This season we have 6 outside stadium games - 5 games on grass (actually 3 games on grass, Lambeau and Mile High have a grass/turf blend)

Hartleys kicking % through out the years that he has played shows that his accuracy is lower on turf than grass, lower indoors than out doors, and lower when the point margin is 0-7 points (when the game is on the line). Hartley is also worse at home than he is away (nature of the beast when your less accurate indoors on turf).

So basically Hartley is not a good kicker for a Dome Team.

I don't need therapy, Garrett Hartley does, he has issues that effect his consistency.

A career average of 84% with in 40 yards is not money.
Kasay's career average of 94% with in 40 yards is money.

Hartley suffers from ADHD, giving him problems focusing and controlling his actions. He was suspended in 2009 for taking Adderall (he had a prescription).
My hunch is that in 2010 he didn't take it because it is a banned substance and his accuracy went to crap.

My version of the Garrett Hartley Story

• 2008 100% accuracy (Taking his Adderall)
• 2009 81.8% accuracy (off the adderall) he burned a test in August before the season
• 2010 80.0 percent accuracy (no adderall)

This is not something he can just "shake off", or "get over".