Haz Takes Tougher Approach

GumboBC · 06-19-2004, 03:03 PM

08 --

Did you see Larry Brown and the Detriot Pistons take down Phil Jackson and the Lakers?

Or, did you see Phil Mikelson win his first major at the Masters?

IMO, you shouldn\'t be so quick to write folks off.

saintz08 · 06-19-2004, 04:14 PM

IMO, you shouldn\'t be so quick to write folks off.

It must be my newly invented no-nonsense, zero-tolerance approach ...... :P

JKool · 06-20-2004, 10:46 AM

Completely agreed Gator; my hyphen covered up too much there.

Making the \"right choice\" is a bit of an ambiguity too, I think:
(1) There is \"the right choice\" all things considered. This occurs when you can look back and still think it was the right choice. This is what Haz does not have.
(2) There is \"the right choice\" which is time dependent. This occurs when everyone agrees that given the information you had at the time you made the right choice, but something unforseen (unforseeable?) or with a low probability occurs and that makes you look bad once you get some perspective. It is not clear whether or not Haz is doing this.

Further, it is of interest how the \"right choice\" gets tied to evidence of being \"smart\" - in the first case above, it is pretty clear. Thus, I think you were right to nitpick this one: I don\'t have an answer to this last question just yet.

WhoDat · 06-21-2004, 03:18 PM

First things first - JKool, I agree that no matter how a coach arrives at a certain decision, if it is the right one than it is a good thing. That\'s why my first post said - good thing.

Billy, billy, billy. You do not learn.

I never said Parcells wouldn\'t make them BETTER.

From Your Greatest Hits File:

\"Bill Parcells is the new coach in Dallas this year and I don\'t hear everyone saying the Cowboys are the favorite this year because of the new system Parcells brought in or because he is a master motivator. Parcells will never win anything until he gets talent on offense, defense, and special teams.\"

Sure sounds to me like you\'re saying Parcells won\'t make the team better, only new talent will. But go ahead and show the world how I\'m twisting and spinning YOUR EXACT WORDS once again.

GumboBC · 06-21-2004, 03:39 PM

Orginally posted by WhoDat:
From Your Greatest Hits File:

\"Bill Parcells is the new coach in Dallas this year and I don\'t hear everyone saying the Cowboys are the favorite this year because of the new system Parcells brought in or because he is a master motivator. Parcells will never win anything until he gets talent on offense, defense, and special teams.\"

Sure sounds to me like you\'re saying Parcells won\'t make the team better, only new talent will. But go ahead and show the world how I\'m twisting and spinning YOUR EXACT WORDS once again.

I\'ll be glad to show you how the only way you can prove your point is to twist and spin things I\'ve said.....

Do you see anywhere that I said the Cowboys wouldn\'t be better? I said I didn\'t hear anyone saying the Cowboys are the favorite for 2003. And I didn\'t. You certainly didn\'t predict the Cowboys to have a good year, WhoDat. Since you like digging old posts up so much maybe you can find one on your prediction of the Cowboys?? That\'s what I thought... :P

Second, I stand by my statement that the Cowboys will never win anything until they get more talent. They certainly didn\'t win anything last year. Not one playoff game did they win. And I believe the Saints beat \'em last year too. Evidently Parcells agrees with me that they needed more talent to win since they signed a lot of new talent in the off season. If Parcells didn\'t think that he would have just stood pat with the players he had.

Now, the Cowboys did surprise me by winning more games than I ever thought they would but I\'m certainly not alone in feeling that way. I know you had it all figured out that the Cowboys would make the playoffs but I\'m CLEARLY not as smart as you, WhoDat..... :P :P

Do you have any other mode besides the \"spin\" cycle?

:P

[Edited on 21/6/2004 by GumboBC]

BlackandBlue · 06-21-2004, 04:17 PM

Or, did you see Phil Mikelson win his first major at the Masters?

Was so happy that he finally won one. But, it did not last, as he once again finished 2nd at the Open. But they\'re not really supposed to win back to back majors, are they? I would think two in a single year would be hard enough, no? Don\'t know as much about golf as I do football.
And Brown has won the big game before, on the college level. And if you compare the teams that he\'s coached in the pro\'s, this is far and away the most talented group he\'s ever had.

saintz08 · 06-21-2004, 06:15 PM

I hope this new policy works, I really do. BUT I don\'t want to hear next year from Haslett that he was too tough this year, so in 2005 he\'s gonna be less tough or not as tough because that was the problem.

Seems I have already heard this one .

2001 season end . Thibodeaux training facility is blamed for the heat along with the over working of the players early , which leads to the first season collapse .

There are, not surprisingly, no lack of theories, and Haslett has explored many of them with some of his head coaching peers. Tennessee Titans coach Jeff Fisher suggested that he get his players off their feet more in camp. The players said that has happened, that the training camp workouts haven\'t been much reduced, but lauded the new indoor facility that allows some respite from the afternoon and evening heat.

The football palace, jointly funded by the state of Louisiana and by Saints owner Tom Benson, is one of the finest in the league. It was a primary reason New Orleans was able to bring camp back home, instead of convening it again in Thibodeaux, La., where the heat index was the only thing in town bigger than the mosquitoes.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp0...n/1591135.html

GumboBC · 06-21-2004, 08:59 PM

08 -

Take a sip of the tang. Lay out in the sunshine. I know if I stick around this place long enough, I\'m going to hear you say something positive about this team.

Of course, I\'ve been saying that for over a year and I\'m still waiting??

What do you think of the Saintsations? You do like chiks, right? LMAO>> :P

saintz08 · 06-22-2004, 11:02 AM

What do you think of the Saintsations?

Just for you Billy.....

http://www.blackandgold.net/site/mod...ead&tid=39#pid

WhoDat · 06-22-2004, 01:02 PM

It\'s a valid point though and one some people here choose to ignore. Every year it is something and every year we hear how THIS plan really will work.

First it was we need to get bigger on D. That tanked and made us worse. Then it was we had locker room cancers and we\'re young, we\'ll be fine. Then it was too much off-season conditioning, yet our players were out of shape and fizzled late in games and late in the season. So what now? Indoor facilities, a defensive revamping, new field turf. Same result. So now it\'s don\'t change anything except get tougher.

My opinion - the only reason it will work will be because of talent. I maintain that Haslett seldom does much to make this team better, yet he has done a number of things to make it worse. Further, to me, the same mistakes continue to be made year in and year out.

Maybe this will be the year that they put it all together. I sure hope so. However, I continue to dread the possibility of them sliding into the playoffs at 9-7 or 10-6 only to get blown out of the water in round one and having to endure Haslett and .500 seasons for another 3 years.

06-19-2004, 03:03 PM	#11
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Haz Takes Tougher Approach 08 -- Did you see Larry Brown and the Detriot Pistons take down Phil Jackson and the Lakers? Or, did you see Phil Mikelson win his first major at the Masters? IMO, you shouldn\'t be so quick to write folks off.
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

06-19-2004, 04:14 PM	#12
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	Haz Takes Tougher Approach IMO, you shouldn\'t be so quick to write folks off. It must be my newly invented no-nonsense, zero-tolerance approach ...... :P
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020

06-20-2004, 10:46 AM	#13
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Haz Takes Tougher Approach Completely agreed Gator; my hyphen covered up too much there. Making the \"right choice\" is a bit of an ambiguity too, I think: (1) There is \"the right choice\" all things considered. This occurs when you can look back and still think it was the right choice. This is what Haz does not have. (2) There is \"the right choice\" which is time dependent. This occurs when everyone agrees that given the information you had at the time you made the right choice, but something unforseen (unforseeable?) or with a low probability occurs and that makes you look bad once you get some perspective. It is not clear whether or not Haz is doing this. Further, it is of interest how the \"right choice\" gets tied to evidence of being \"smart\" - in the first case above, it is pretty clear. Thus, I think you were right to nitpick this one: I don\'t have an answer to this last question just yet.
	"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks

06-21-2004, 03:18 PM	#14
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Haz Takes Tougher Approach First things first - JKool, I agree that no matter how a coach arrives at a certain decision, if it is the right one than it is a good thing. That\'s why my first post said - good thing. Billy, billy, billy. You do not learn. I never said Parcells wouldn\'t make them BETTER. From Your Greatest Hits File: \"Bill Parcells is the new coach in Dallas this year and I don\'t hear everyone saying the Cowboys are the favorite this year because of the new system Parcells brought in or because he is a master motivator. Parcells will never win anything until he gets talent on offense, defense, and special teams.\" Sure sounds to me like you\'re saying Parcells won\'t make the team better, only new talent will. But go ahead and show the world how I\'m twisting and spinning YOUR EXACT WORDS once again.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

06-21-2004, 03:39 PM	#15
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Haz Takes Tougher Approach Orginally posted by WhoDat: From Your Greatest Hits File: \"Bill Parcells is the new coach in Dallas this year and I don\'t hear everyone saying the Cowboys are the favorite this year because of the new system Parcells brought in or because he is a master motivator. Parcells will never win anything until he gets talent on offense, defense, and special teams.\" Sure sounds to me like you\'re saying Parcells won\'t make the team better, only new talent will. But go ahead and show the world how I\'m twisting and spinning YOUR EXACT WORDS once again. I\'ll be glad to show you how the only way you can prove your point is to twist and spin things I\'ve said..... Do you see anywhere that I said the Cowboys wouldn\'t be better? I said I didn\'t hear anyone saying the Cowboys are the favorite for 2003. And I didn\'t. You certainly didn\'t predict the Cowboys to have a good year, WhoDat. Since you like digging old posts up so much maybe you can find one on your prediction of the Cowboys?? That\'s what I thought... :P Second, I stand by my statement that the Cowboys will never win anything until they get more talent. They certainly didn\'t win anything last year. Not one playoff game did they win. And I believe the Saints beat \'em last year too. Evidently Parcells agrees with me that they needed more talent to win since they signed a lot of new talent in the off season. If Parcells didn\'t think that he would have just stood pat with the players he had. Now, the Cowboys did surprise me by winning more games than I ever thought they would but I\'m certainly not alone in feeling that way. I know you had it all figured out that the Cowboys would make the playoffs but I\'m CLEARLY not as smart as you, WhoDat..... :P :P Do you have any other mode besides the \"spin\" cycle? :P [Edited on 21/6/2004 by GumboBC]
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

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06-21-2004, 04:17 PM	#16
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	Haz Takes Tougher Approach Or, did you see Phil Mikelson win his first major at the Masters? Was so happy that he finally won one. But, it did not last, as he once again finished 2nd at the Open. But they\'re not really supposed to win back to back majors, are they? I would think two in a single year would be hard enough, no? Don\'t know as much about golf as I do football. And Brown has won the big game before, on the college level. And if you compare the teams that he\'s coached in the pro\'s, this is far and away the most talented group he\'s ever had.

06-21-2004, 06:15 PM	#17
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	Haz Takes Tougher Approach I hope this new policy works, I really do. BUT I don\'t want to hear next year from Haslett that he was too tough this year, so in 2005 he\'s gonna be less tough or not as tough because that was the problem. Seems I have already heard this one . 2001 season end . Thibodeaux training facility is blamed for the heat along with the over working of the players early , which leads to the first season collapse . There are, not surprisingly, no lack of theories, and Haslett has explored many of them with some of his head coaching peers. Tennessee Titans coach Jeff Fisher suggested that he get his players off their feet more in camp. The players said that has happened, that the training camp workouts haven\'t been much reduced, but lauded the new indoor facility that allows some respite from the afternoon and evening heat. The football palace, jointly funded by the state of Louisiana and by Saints owner Tom Benson, is one of the finest in the league. It was a primary reason New Orleans was able to bring camp back home, instead of convening it again in Thibodeaux, La., where the heat index was the only thing in town bigger than the mosquitoes. http://espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp0...n/1591135.html
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020

06-21-2004, 08:59 PM	#18
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Haz Takes Tougher Approach 08 - Take a sip of the tang. Lay out in the sunshine. I know if I stick around this place long enough, I\'m going to hear you say something positive about this team. Of course, I\'ve been saying that for over a year and I\'m still waiting?? What do you think of the Saintsations? You do like chiks, right? LMAO>> :P
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

06-22-2004, 11:02 AM	#19
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	Haz Takes Tougher Approach What do you think of the Saintsations? Just for you Billy..... http://www.blackandgold.net/site/mod...ead&tid=39#pid
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020

06-22-2004, 01:02 PM	#20
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Haz Takes Tougher Approach It\'s a valid point though and one some people here choose to ignore. Every year it is something and every year we hear how THIS plan really will work. First it was we need to get bigger on D. That tanked and made us worse. Then it was we had locker room cancers and we\'re young, we\'ll be fine. Then it was too much off-season conditioning, yet our players were out of shape and fizzled late in games and late in the season. So what now? Indoor facilities, a defensive revamping, new field turf. Same result. So now it\'s don\'t change anything except get tougher. My opinion - the only reason it will work will be because of talent. I maintain that Haslett seldom does much to make this team better, yet he has done a number of things to make it worse. Further, to me, the same mistakes continue to be made year in and year out. Maybe this will be the year that they put it all together. I sure hope so. However, I continue to dread the possibility of them sliding into the playoffs at 9-7 or 10-6 only to get blown out of the water in round one and having to endure Haslett and .500 seasons for another 3 years.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"