Coaching is the key!!!!! Or is it????
 

Coaching is the key. Right? Now, I know coaching is important. But, then again, the "long snapper" is pretty important too. Let's take a look at some of the coahing "geniuses" and see what they have done!!


Jimmy Johnson, once considered the best coach since Bill Walsh, started out his coaching career with a record of 1-15. Followed that up with a 7-9 record. Then coaches his team to an 11-5 record and a playoff win. Then breaks the door down with two super bowl wins in the following 2 years. Jimmy Johnson then retires and is widely considered to be a football genius. Cowboy’s owner Jerry Jones disagrees and comes out publicly and says there are 20-coaches that could win a super bowl with the Cowboys. And to prove it, Jerry Jones hires Barry Switzer and wins another super bowl.

To prove his genius, Jimmy Johnson decides to come out of retirement and coach the Dolphins to the super bowl. Maybe Jimmy Johnson wasn’t quite the genius he thought he was though as Jimmy was never was never able to win more than one playoff game in any of his 4 years coaching the Dolphins. Jimmy Johnson decides to retire again. With Parcells, Vermil, and Joe Gibbs returning to the NFL, we might see Jimmy Johnson back soon.

But, let's look at some curent NFL head coahes. The ones fans are in love with. Like...... Jeff Fisher.

Jeff Fisher starts his career out with a record of 7-9. Then follows that up with three 8-8 seasons. Things aren’t looking too good for Fisher. Four seasons without a winnig record. Suddenly Fisher breaks out from mediocrity and coaches the Titians to a 13-3 record and a trip to the super bowl. Fisher follows that up with another 13-3 year but looses in the first round of the playoffs. Then coaches his team to a 7-9 record. Followed up by an 11-5 and 12-4 record. In 9 seasons Fisher only got his team to the playoffs 4 times and only has 4 seasons above .500. That’s 5 non-winning seasons out of 9 with a super bowl loss.

Then there is the new breed of head coaches who come on the scene like Brian Billick. Billick starts his coaching career out with an 8-8 record. Through his pure coaching genius, Billick is able to coach the Ravens to a 12-4 regular season record and win a super bowl in only his second year. Billick built the best defense since the “steel curtain� they say. Only problem was Billick’s team got bounced out of the playoffs the following year and followed that up with a 7-9 record. Billick does get his team back to the playoffs in 2003, but loses in the first round of the playoffs.

Forget all of those guys though. Let’s talk about a REAL coaching genius. Let’s talk about one of those coaches who can “walk on water.� A guy that can step in and coach any team to a super bowl victory. Let’s talk about Bill Parcells. Just one problem though. Parcells last super bowl victory was in 1990 when he had one of those dynasty teams with Lawrence Tayler and co.

Bill Parcells would retire from coaching after the Giants last super bowl victory in 1990. Parcells would return to coaching with the New England Patriots in 1993. In his first year Parcells went 5-11. Followed that up with a 10-6 record and a playoff loss. Then followed that up with a 6-10 record. It’s all so confusing. Fist year: 5-11. Second year: 10-6. Third year: 6-10.

But, in his 4th year as head coach of the Patriots, Parcells would take his first step “walking on water� as he coached the previous 6-10 Patriots to an 11-5 record and a trip to the super bowl. Someone get a life preserver out, though, because the Patriots would lose the super bowl to the Packers 35-21. The roller coaster ride with the Patriots proved to be more than Parcells could bear as he retired following the super bowl loss.

Parcells would emerge again as head coach of the Jets. He would take the Jets to a 9-7 record. Then to a 12-4 record before falling back to a .500 team. Never getting the Jets to a super bowl.

But, we hadn’t heard the last from Bill Parcells. He was determined to prove he could indeed “walk on water.� Parcells would land in the Big D in 2003. There was little doubt Parcells had his work cut our for him with the Cowboys. I don’t remember what the Cowboys record was when Parcells became the head coach. Maybe 1-15, 3-13, or 4-12. Who remembers? Does it really matter? When you can “walk on water� no odds are too great. What does Parcells do in his first year as head coach with the Cowboys? Only take the Cowboys to the playoffs in his first year. He’s "walking on water" in Dallas. Keep that life preserver handy, though. Remember, he took the 10-6 Patriots to a 6-10 record the following year. Hey, I'm just kidding Bill. We are sure you will get the Cowboys to a super bowl victory. Aren't we???

Then there’s Bill Billichick. He started out his coaching career by, well … getting fired. No, not right away. They gave him 5-years before giving him the axe. Billichick started out as a head coach with the Cleveland Browns by going:

1991: 6-10
1992: 7-9
1993: 7-9
1994: 11-5
1995: 5-11……………Fired!!!!!!!!

Proving you can reinvent the wheel, Billichick returns to head coaching with Parcells former team (the patriots) in 2000. Looks like much of the same from Billichick as he goes 5-11 with the Patriots in his first year. Somehow, Billichick pulls off one of the great turnarounds in NFL history as he takes the 5-11 Patriots and wins a super bowl in only his second year with the Patriots. To prove his coaching genius, Billichick and the Patriots miss the playoffs the following year. But, guess what? Billichick and the Patriots strike again as they win another super bowl in 2003. Let’s take a look at Billichicks record as head coach of the Patriots:

2000: 5-11
2001: 11-5 Super Bowl Victory
2002: 9-7 Misses Playoffs
2003: 14-2 Super Bowl Victory


A new coaching genius is born. But, it seems like Billichick is only a genius in the “odd� numbered years. Since this is 2004, I’m betting against Billichick and the Patriots, no matter how much of a genius he might be. Hey, don’t laugh. In 9 years Billichick has only had ONE winning record in “even� numbered years. That’s not bad odds and it makes as much sense as anything??



Then there are coaches that got their team to the super bowl once in the last decade.

1. Jim Fassel – Fired
2. Dan Reeves – Fired
3. Jon Gruden - Super Bowl Vitory, then misses playoffs.

Now, John Fox is a coaching genius. What do you wanna bet the Panthers miss the playoff this year?


I don’t know. I was convinced for a while that coaching was the key to getting a team to the super bowl. But, now all I’m convinced of is a team somehow gets on a roll and ends up in the super bowl.

Maybe someone can explain to me how coahing can be so responsible for a teams success one year and that same coach misses the playoffs the follwing year. It's just too confusing for me!!

















[Edited on 3/7/2004 by GumboBC]

Coaching is the key!!!!! Or is it????
 

Thought of the day :

How many Super Bowls have been won by cross over coaching staffs ??

Bill Walsh / Holmgren / Shanahan

Parcels / Bilichick ........ ;)

Coaching is the key!!!!! Or is it????
 

What is the point of this thread Billy?
A coach is the most important individual on a team. Bottom line. Why? Because he is the only person that has global impact on the game. He has individual impact on very single player, impact on the play call, scheme, and personnel. That\'s why if the team fails, the coach changes. Success is measured in various ways. How many individuals have coached in this league? How many have won a Super Bowl? Some that haven\'t are not bad coaches, but it\'s a tight rope act when trying to balance all of the facets of this game. It\'s like survivor. Only one can win.

Coaching is the key!!!!! Or is it????
 

lummOx –

The point I’m trying to make is that coaching can only do so much. In the free-agent era, coaching usually doesn’t make a team a consistent winner. You point out that there can be only one winner each year. Very true!!

However, that does not explain why these great coaches go from having a post-season berth to having a losing record the following year. Which is exactly the point I’m trying to make. While I think good coaching helps guide a team along during a super bowl run, I think there are so many other factors that are just as important as coaching. Such as:

1. Not having many injuries.
2. Catching a team when they have key injuries.
3. Strength of schedule.
4. Luck.

If what I’m saying weren’t true, then you wouldn’t see these great coaches like Bill Parcells take a team from 5-11 to 11-5 and back to 6-10 in consecutive years. As good as they might be -- their great coaching just can’t get the job done consistently. And you wouldn’t see Jon Grunden go from the super bowl to a 7-9 record the following year. The examples are many.

There are some coaches in the league that have been better at winning consistently, like Andy Reid. But, for the most part, it’s a roller coaster ride for NFL head coaches.

I’m all for giving coaches the respect they deserve. But, I also realize that coaching is only part of the picture. And I don’t think coaching is any bigger a part of the picture than some other factors.


[Edited on 3/7/2004 by GumboBC]

[Edited on 3/7/2004 by GumboBC]

Coaching is the key!!!!! Or is it????
 

Billy, I think that this is a very interesting post.

Here are my two first thoughts:

(1) BnB is right when he says the coach touches every part of the game, from the top down. Earlier you and I had an interesting discussion of what makes something \"more important\", and while off the top of my head I can\'t remember the upshot of that, I do recall that \"more important\" had something to do with whether or not there was a one way relation between x and y. In the case of coaching, there is such a one way relation - the coach can make the players better, but it is very unclear (or at least not as strong) that the players make the coach coach better. Thus, the coach is \"more important\" than the players.

(2) W/L records hide so many facts. I almost always wonder why people think these have anything to do with anything, other than who makes the playoffs of course. Thus, I do think it is fascinating that the measure that so many people hold out as critical (W/L) doesn\'t really tell us very much about the causal factors (which IS what we are interested in when making predictions about the future or current goodness of teams). I guess I\'m just wondering if you really think that these W/L records really tell you about the quality of the coaching (if they are cyclical as you suggest - since surely a very long streak of winning or losing would tell you something about the coach)?

I hope that made sense, since my monitor is failing, so I\'m having trouble reading what I wrote.

Coaching is the key!!!!! Or is it????
 

JKool --

Believe it or not ... but, I wrote my post up the way I did for a reason. Mostly to start some good discussion on coaching. Before I go any further, let me address a couple of statements you have made.

IMO, that\'s not always true. What I mean is sometimes the players are more important than the person that is coaching. Take Barry Switzer for example. I believe any number of coaches could have taken that Dallas team to a super bowl.

And when Bill Callahan took the Raiders to the super bowl, I don\'t think he was more important than the players in that particular year. In general, I agree the coaching postion has more control over the entire team than the players. I just don\'t think coaching is always most responsible for a teams success.

Now for the real point I want to make.

I think too many fans get caught up in the win/loss record for a team and judge a coach too much by it. But, they fail to take into account SO MANY THINGS. When a coach like John Fox takes the Panthers to the super bowl he is instantly labeled as a coaching genius by the media and a lot of fans. But, if he doesn\'t get the Panthers to the playoffs this year, how many folks do you think will blame it on bad coaching? NOT MANY!! They will blame ANYTHING but BAD coaching. I say if coaching got the credit for getting them to the super bowl, then shouldn\'t BAD coaching be to blame for the failure to get back?

Just like I think there are only a couple of guys that are \"shut down\" corners, I think there are even less coaches in the league that can win consistently. There are just too many other factors, when added up collectively, are more resonsible for getting a team to the super bowl.




[Edited on 3/7/2004 by GumboBC]

Coaching is the key!!!!! Or is it????
 

Billy,

First off, let me re-vamp my use of the term \"coach\", to include team management. I am going to consider this a single entity.
The only part I have to disagree with is that a coach is more important than the 4 factors you mentioned.
1) Injuries- To start, they are impossible to predict. The coach is the only factor invloved here. Training of players for proper stretching, field awareness, conditioning, etc. can positively or negatively impact this.Likewise, talent evaluation for adequate depth can only be beneficial to this.
2) Other teams injuries- absolutely nothing a team\'s coach, or any player can do will impact this. This is on par with #4.
3) Strength of schedule- The only impact here is the prior year. Again, a coach for 2004 has no ability in the present to address this. He also has no ability to impact his strength of opponent. For arguements sake in 2,3 and 4 factors you mentioned, and for the most part #1, we can just call the #1 factor \"ACT OF GOD\".
4) A coach can bring a positive environment to the team. A confident team will make their own luck. Coaches can manipulate karma, both good and bad.

You used Barry Switzer as an example. For the Cowboys, Switzer was the coach only by means of his title. That was clearly Jimmy Johnson\'s squad. He drafted or obtained all of the players and coached them to the level they were at. Switzer stood at the helm of a ship in calm waters with the autopilot engaged. Could Barry Switzer have built a winner himself? I don\'t know but I doubt it. Could Jimmy Johnson repeat success? We know he didn\'t. Many coaches have difficulty duplicating success of their recipe because they cannot duplicate the ingredients.

You are right when you say the coach can be less important than the players, but that is only once success is created, or when growth ceases to continue. I may be alone when I believe that I would rather have a superior coach and inferior talent, than vice versa. I am confident I will win more games that way. Especially with the mentality and ego of today\'s typical player, I think coaches are more crucial to today\'s success. I believe that in years past the players were more team oriented and self motivated. The game was less of a business and more of a sport.

Coaching is the key!!!!! Or is it????
 

So we\'re dealing with two types of inconsistency then huh?

1. The kind that takes a team to the Super Bowl one year and then misses the playoffs the next year (e.g. Parcells, Billick, Billichick, etc.).

2. The kind that changes its scheme or personnel every year and puts an inconsistent team on the field that is only consistent at hitting the .500 mark, no more, no less.

Given a choice between the two, I\'ll take a Super Bowl followed by a year or two of 7-9 or 8-8 versus nothing but 7-9 or 8-8. That\'s just me. :)

Let\'s see Billy, the QB is important, the coach is not, the defense is, but really only the D line - what else? I\'m learning so much. ;)

Coaching is the key!!!!! Or is it????
 

lummOx --

What I should have said is \" Coaching alone IS the SINGLE biggest fator in a teams success, but there are so many other factors, when added up collectively, that have just as much (if not more) of an impact on a teams success (or lack of) as coaching.\"

What I mean is there are just so many things that are out of control of the head coach that can make or break a teams season.

Coaching is the key!!!!! Or is it????
 

WhoDat --

I\'ll take one of those super bowl trips myself. ;)

This is not to take up for Jim Haslett. Has nothing to do with Haslett.

This has to do with \"why\" coaching can\'t always get the job done. ;)

Coaching is the key!!!!! Or is it????
 

And yet for some reason it always seems too.......

When you follow the coaching chain down the line you will see what I mean .

The past 10 SuperBowls have been won by the philosophy of 4 head coaches ...

The past 20 Super Bowls have been won by the philosophy of just 6 head coaches ....

These head coaches who have established a Super Bowl winning philosophy which affected other coaches are :

Parcels
Walsh
Vermeil
Johnson
Gibbs
Landry

In the last 20 years , the winning Super Bowl coach was linked to the winning philosophy of just these 6 coaches .....

If it aint coaching , then why do assistants from the same systems keep winning them ????......... ;)

And just for fun :

60% of the Super Bowls won in the last 10 years , the head coach was previously in a system directly related to the Bill Walsh system in San Francisco ......

[Edited on 4/7/2004 by saintz08]

Coaching is the key!!!!! Or is it????
 

Every fan is always looking for that one “elusive� thing that will get their team to the super bowl. That one “key� ingredient that’s missing.

Over the years, there has been much speculation about what that “key� ingredient is. But, I contend there is no “key� ingredient for success in the NFL.

Not coaching, not players, and not defense!! None of these things will get your team to the Promised Land. Not individually anyway. And none of them are any more important than the others!!!!

Let’s look back and examine some of the “myths� of football.

1. A team must be able to run the ball in order to win!
Well, why are so many of the top rushing teams left out of the playoffs every year? Deuce McAllister is about as good it gets but it just wasn’t enough. And how were the Patriots able to win 2 of the last 3 super bowls with a sub-par running game?!?!?

2. A team must have a franchise quarterback!
Then why hasn’t Peyton Manning taken his team to a super bowl? Why did it take Peyton 6-years to win his first playoff game? Why is Trent Dilfer wearing a super bowl ring and Peyton is still searching for one?

3. Defense wins championships!
Really? Then why did 5 of the top 10 defenses miss the playoffs last year? As good as they were, it just wasn’t enough.

4. Coaching makes the difference!
Oh yeah?? Then why couldn’t Bill Parcells win a playoff game? Why did Jon Gruden miss the playoffs altogether? How are some of these no-name coaches able to come out of nowhere and upstage some of these coaching legends?

I love NFL football but you just never know! We might think we know, but we just don’t!

But, some fans claim to know the “recipe� for success in the NFL. They are convinced they know all the secret ingredients to build a winner.

It’s always a different rage in the NFL. The big rage now is coaching. Just hire yourself a “Bill Parcells� of the world and you will be well on your way to having your super bowl ring designed. Never mind the fact that Parcells last super bowl ring came 10 years ago with Lawrence Taylor.

Now, don’t get me wrong. Coaching is very important. Coaching lays the “foundation� for every football team. But games have and always will be decided by the players on the field.

All the motivation and trickery in the world can only do so much. In the end, it’s up to the players to win. So, while coaching lays the “foundation�, it’s the players that get you to the “penthouse.�

If you’re going to start somewhere it should be with your coach. Then he will have to determine what’s the best way for his football team to win. It doesn’t have to be with a “franchise� QB. He doesn’t have to have a top 10 defense to win it all. No secret ingredient is needed.

So, while “coaching� is all the rage. Just realize that a team doesn’t need one of the best coaches to get to the super bowl. They just need to have a good combination of everything and a little bit of luck!!


[Edited on 5/7/2004 by GumboBC]

Coaching is the key!!!!! Or is it????
 

Billy,

I agree that there is no single \"recipe\" for success in the NFL. This is very much like my point that there is not simply one way to have a great defense - it depends on who you have where - a great MLB can make up for a weaker DT, a great CB can make up for a weaker FS, and so on.

It is the same for teams: there is no team that is perfect everywhere, so it is up to the great players to play great and those around them to back them up. It is the coach\'s job to make sure that he identifies the great players, the back ups, and the space holders - then a team can be great!

It is also possible, as you point out, that sometimes great players can carry the load - but that is really asking too much of the players. Also, as BnB notes, it is pretty well the coach\'s job to make sure the players do what they need to do - they really won\'t do it on their own - so, perhaps, under certain conditions the players can keep doing what they do, but really we shoudn\'t expect that from a young team or one with lots of turnover (that is when the Coach is critical).

Thus, I agree that great coaching is not the \"key\" to success - as 08 notes, most good coaches just copy the greats and have good success. Though I\'d say you\'d have to add Shanahan to his list (he did as much in San Fran as he did in Denver!). However, as far as importance goes, a good coach is right up there with a great DE or a great QB.

Coaching is the key!!!!! Or is it????
 

Jkool –

Good points. There have been several good points brought up. Such as:

lummOx brings up a very interesting point in that the coach is the single most important person on the team because: “he is the only person that has global impact on the game. He has individual impact on every single player, impact on the play call, scheme, and personnel. That\'s why if the team fails, the coach changes.�

While lummOx is correct that the coach is held responsible for every single facet of his team, that doesn’t make it the right thing to do. It depends on the circumstances.

I think some fans get caught up in the instant success that some other teams have. Fans look at the instant success other teams have and they develop a “fire ‘em all� attitude if their team doesn’t achieve success in a certain time frame.

As I’ve already proved, great coaching doesn’t always translate into wins. As a matter of fact, great coaching is sometimes rewarded with the coach getting fired. Just ask Jim Fassel, Dan Reeves, Bill Belichick, ect, ect..

And just like I believe the coach takes too much blame, I believe he also gets too much credit.

The favorite person that fans always love to blame is the QB and the coach. Bench the QB and fire the coach. If I only had a dime for every time I’ve heard that…

Coaching is the key!!!!! Or is it????
 

Gator --

That was one hell of a post, buddy. :thumbup:

My point really had nothing to do with Haslett. Ya\'ll have changed my mind on Haslett. I think Haslett has made his own bed and he\'s going to have to prove he can get the job done. I\'m giving Haslett the benefit of the doubt. I know Haslett can\'t do everything, but I\'ve got to see a good solid coaching job done this year or I\'m through with Haslett.

It\'s kinda hard to find much to talk about this time of year, I just threw this topic out there.....

Coaching is the key!!!!! Or is it????
 

Does this include when they change to the wrong coach or wrong quarterback ?? Cause in that case , can we start screaming earlier ???

Coaching is the key!!!!! Or is it????
 

It absolutely is the right thing to do. In the corporate world, if a mid-level manager fails he gets fired. If the organization fails to meet expectations (earning - their own or the street\'s) the CEO is fired. Not the mid-level personnel. Not the linemen, the executives. Was it the executives that actually did the work? No, and often times they have FAR LESS say on who their employees are then do football coaches. They are judged solely on their ability to execute a strategy, regardless of who is actually doing the work.

I think football coaches hve far more wiggle room. What has Haslett asked for that he has not received? His players? His coaches? New training facility? New Dome surface? Consultation for experts, other coaches, former greats for him and his players?

In essence, it\'s like a new CEO being named at IBM, and then that guy coming in, replacing every employee from the COO to the janitor, getting consultants, new state-of-the-art facilities, and then still failing. That guy wouldn\'t just be fired, he\'d probably be sued and maybe even brought up on charges.

That\'s the real world. Don\'t forget for a minute that this is a business, and while winning doesn\'t necessarily translate into better returns, it certainly helps. This is it - time for Haslett, Brooks, and the entire team to put up - or else every single person in the football operations side of the house should be worried about his job.

[Edited on 6/7/2004 by WhoDat]

Coaching is the key!!!!! Or is it????
 

WhoDat --

I agree that the coach has to be the one who is ulitimately held responsible for the failure of a team to win. No matter whose fault it is.

My point, however, is that it\'s not always the coaches fault. Not that the coach shouldn\'t be held responsible.

And I don\'t like comparing the corperate world to the NFL. A pulled hamstring doesn\'t keep a CEO from picking up the phone.... ;)

Coaching is the key!!!!! Or is it????
 

... a pulled hamstring might not, but skilled labor may.

My point is - you may not be able to fault a coach for a play, or a series, or a game, or een a bad season. But you CAN and SHOULD hold him responsible for THREE or FOUR seasons with similar results. At that point, it is his FAULT - IMO. Just like I give Bellicheck credit for putting together a team to win the SB two of the last three years, I credit Haslett with the lion\'s share of responsibility for the Saints poor play.

Billy - one last thing, don\'t forget - the NFL IS the corporate world. Nobody is in that league for fun - they\'re in it to make money (except maybe Leisle who will apparently play for a dollar a day) ;)

Coaching is the key!!!!! Or is it????
 

WhoDat --

I agree that 3 years of mediocrity is not a good sign for Haslett. One year, ok. Two years, maybe. 3 years and no matter what the problems are, Haslett has to get them corrected. This year is the year for Haslett in my mind. I hope we remain virutally injury free so we can see what this team is all about.

But, whatever happens Haslett has to bear the responsibility.

Like Gator said. Sometimes change is necessary whether that be for the better or worse.