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-   -   Article: Judge calls BS on Goodell (http://blackandgold.com/saints/48245-judge-calls-bs-goodell.html)

SmashMouth 08-16-2012 09:38 AM

Re: Judge calls BS on Goodell
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by x626xBlack (Post 428313)
The only thing Vilma does not have on his personal side is time.

At 31 with a bad knee, and a career on the decline....

His knee is a HUGE problem. He injured his knee on September 18th 2011 then had his knee scoped around Nov 7th 2011...... Nine months later he is not ready to play.

Precisely why he needs to go for the GOLD!

:popcorn:

42alpha saint 08-16-2012 10:15 AM

Re: Judge calls BS on Goodell
 
I did the math here, and I figured for the 2009 season - present, oh wait i did not count the preseason games, but I figured that we have played 54 regular season and playoff games. If the NFL says they have 50,000 pages of evidence, that comes out to be 925.92 pages per game. There is no way possible, that they could have that much evidence. What a gross exxageration on the part of the NFL to blatantly slander our team, in an effort to turn every fan in the NFL who is not a Saint Fan against us. Im not a lawyer, but I cant understand why the Judge, cant provide a court order to the NFL to produce all 50,000 pages of evidence or leave her with no choice but to rule in favor of Vilma. I have a red button that reads Bullsh*t and when pressed, it proclaims a few sayings, such as BS alert BS alert!!! I think the judge needs one of these on her desk, for when the NFL representatives start talking.

TheOak 08-16-2012 10:20 AM

Re: Judge calls BS on Goodell
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Scoopnette (Post 428333)
I did the math here, and I figured for the 2009 season - present, oh wait i did not count the preseason games, but I figured that we have played 54 regular season and playoff games. If the NFL says they have 50,000 pages of evidence, that comes out to be 925.92 pages per game. There is no way possible, that they could have that much evidence. What a gross exxageration on the part of the NFL to blatantly slander our team, in an effort to turn every fan in the NFL who is not a Saint Fan against us. Im not a lawyer, but I cant understand why the Judge, cant provide a court order to the NFL to produce all 50,000 pages of evidence or leave her with no choice but to rule in favor of Vilma.

be careful what you wish for.....

1. If there is just ONE piece in those 50k pages that is believable or factual Vilma is done.

2. The last thing the judge wants to do is have to read 50,000 pages of evidence LOL.

42alpha saint 08-16-2012 10:25 AM

Re: Judge calls BS on Goodell
 
"The last thing the judge wants to do is have to read 50,000 pages of evidence LOL."


I have a hard time reading 1 page of anything from the NFL, must less 50,000, so I definitely see your point there.

NuNu318 08-16-2012 10:50 AM

Re: Judge calls BS on Goodell
 
I kinda remember something about the NFLPA asking for them to delay the suspensions so the could do their own investigation.......but I also remember the NFL stating publicly that they WOULD NOT delay the suspensions to the players. So yeah....NFL is screwed any way they slice it.

Utah_Saint 08-16-2012 10:55 AM

Re: Judge calls BS on Goodell
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by x626xBlack (Post 428336)
be careful what you wish for.....

1. If there is just ONE piece in those 50k pages that is believable or factual Vilma is done.

2. The last thing the judge wants to do is have to read 50,000 pages of evidence LOL.

According to the CBA, wasn't Goodell supposed to turn over all evidence that he used to decide punishment of the players?

Quote from court filing a couple weeks ago...

"Article 46, Section 2(ii) of the CBA -- which mandates that the league turn over any evidence they plan to use to Vilma three days prior to the appeal -- and wrote that since the league said it had 55,000 pages of evidence "it is simply impossible that Goodell only considered the evidence produced prior to the appeal hearing, both because 180 pages do not come close to justifying any punishment and because it is humanly impossible to block out, and not consider, 99 percent of the information gathered."

So if one of those other 50,000 pages does have some type of evidence, then Goodell violated the CBA again.


And this in another part of this whole thing that I can't understand. Many rumors are going around that Goodell is protecting his sources. I don't know where they started but If that's true, then he is again in violation of the CBA. I would think that alone would be enough for the judge to step in and nullify Goodells decision.

TheOak 08-16-2012 11:02 AM

Re: Judge calls BS on Goodell
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Utah_Saint (Post 428345)
According to the CBA, wasn't Goodell supposed to turn over all evidence that he used to decide punishment of the players?

Quote from court filing a couple weeks ago...

"Article 46, Section 2(ii) of the CBA -- which mandates that the league turn over any evidence they plan to use to Vilma three days prior to the appeal -- and wrote that since the league said it had 55,000 pages of evidence "it is simply impossible that Goodell only considered the evidence produced prior to the appeal hearing, both because 180 pages do not come close to justifying any punishment and because it is humanly impossible to block out, and not consider, 99 percent of the information gathered."

So if one of those other 50,000 pages does have some type of evidence, then Goodell violated the CBA again.


And this in another part of this whole thing that I can't understand. Many rumors are going around that Goodell is protecting his sources. I don't know where they started but If that's true, then he is again in violation of the CBA. I would think that alone would be enough for the judge to step in and nullify Goodells decision.

No.. that is a common misconception.... He does not have to turn over ANYTHING he used to make his judgement... At this point, or until a Judge tells him to.

He DID have to turn over ANYTHING he planned to use in that appeal hearing. For appeal hearings the big picture is not important (to the process), he only had to make available what the NFL planned to use in that specific appeals hearing so the NFLPA could prepare argument.

NuNu318 08-16-2012 11:32 AM

Re: Judge calls BS on Goodell
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by x626xBlack (Post 428346)
he only had to make available what the NFL planned to use in that specific appeals hearing so the NFLPA could prepare argument.

Which is why the hearing was complete BS and bias. Because the "evidence" provided to the NFLPA was complete garbage. How can the NFLPA prepare and argument when its all circumstantial and pretty much just a typed up memo of what the NFL SAYS it has and a sorry excuse for a power point presentation. All of which would be thrown out in an actual courtroom. How can they defend against something that isn't there. This isn't Ghostbusters...

The NFL is trying desperately to hide behind that CBA but it violated the CBA themselves and expects a judge to just accept that. They have put themselves in a deep whole because they thought Vilma and the players would just accept the tarnishing of their reputations without fighting back. The NFL is losing all credibility because its doing what they accuse the Saints organization of doing....being arrogant. They never expected Vilma to take it this far because they have this notion in their head that these players are complete idiots and will take anything because they don't know any better.....now their seeing that a lot of these players are a lot smarter than what they give them credit for.

TheOak 08-16-2012 12:00 PM

Re: Judge calls BS on Goodell
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NuNu318 (Post 428352)
Which is why the hearing was complete BS and bias. Because the "evidence" provided to the NFLPA was complete garbage. How can the NFLPA prepare and argument when its all circumstantial and pretty much just a typed up memo of what the NFL SAYS it has and a sorry excuse for a power point presentation. All of which would be thrown out in an actual courtroom. How can they defend against something that isn't there. This isn't Ghostbusters...

The NFL is trying desperately to hide behind that CBA but it violated the CBA themselves and expects a judge to just accept that. They have put themselves in a deep whole because they thought Vilma and the players would just accept the tarnishing of their reputations without fighting back. The NFL is losing all credibility because its doing what they accuse the Saints organization of doing....being arrogant. They never expected Vilma to take it this far because they have this notion in their head that these players are complete idiots and will take anything because they don't know any better.....now their seeing that a lot of these players are a lot smarter than what they give them credit for.

That is standard procedure for an appeals hearing... Even when battleing for unemployment from a company that severs someone.

Trust me..... been there. They only have to give what they plan to use to justify their case in that hearing. They can save the rest for the next appeal, firewood, etc...

Why would they have to submit what they do not plan to use? If the roles were reversed the NFLPA would only give up what they planned to use for that particular hearing.... Saving the rest for a future fight.

It is what it is..... And I should remind everyone.. "IT" is what the NFLPA agreed upon. Thanks DeMaurice Smith.

The rest could incriminate other players and they do not have to release that. The rest could absolve Vilma and they do not have to release that... Its up to the NFLPA to discover what they need.

Speaking of discovery..... I still have a major issue with the NFLPA not subpoenaing Greg Williams, Roger Goodell, and all parties involved with the "supposed" infractions or the investigation.... So that they could get their own answers... Not getting their own evidence means they are constantly on the Defense instead of the offense... I have yet to see where the NFLPA has filed a motion to get the NFL to turn all 50k pages over.. They asked, but not legally.

NFL wins the Time of Possession battle.

TXGSP 08-16-2012 12:10 PM

Re: Judge calls BS on Goodell
 
Regardless of the evidence.... The league provided some information on this themselves...on their own website

Quote:

Find this article at:
NFL denies NFLPA request for delay of penalties in Saints case - NFL.com

NFL denies NFLPA request for delay of penalties in Saints case
NFL.com Wire Reports
Published: March 16, 2012 at 02:56 a.m.
Updated: March 16, 2012 at 08:43 a.m.

The NFL responded to a request by the NFL Players Association to conduct its own investigation into the New Orleans Saints' pay-for-performance scandal, SI.com reported Thursday.

The league told the union that it was free to question any current or former Saints officials about the matter, but that it would not delay announcing its own discipline. That announcement is expected to come soon.

Union officials contend they didn't learn of the investigation until shortly before the results were announced, at which point they told the league they wanted to conduct their own investigation.

"We have given your requests careful consideration, and have concluded that there is no basis for delaying the imposition of any discipline in this matter, and particularly not as it may apply to a club or any non-player employee of a club," NFL attorney Jeff Pash wrote in the letter to union general counsel Richard Berthelsen on Wednesday. "Any disciplinary action affecting any player would be imposed only in a manner consistent with our Collective Bargaining Agreement. As you know, the sole authority to investigate and impose discipline in this matter rests with the Commissioner."

Pash also wrote that team officials were free to speak with union investigators, but that the league "will neither compel them to do so, nor direct them to refrain from doing so."

The NFL says the Saints ran a program that gave thousands of dollars in payoffs to players for hits that knocked opponents out of games. The NFL said the amounts reached their peak in 2009, the season the Saints won the Super Bowl. Former Saints assistant coach Gregg Williams, now defensive coordinator of the Rams, has admitted to and apologized for running the program.

The Associated Press contributed to this story.
If the League denied the request to delay any penalties and reported it on March 16. The Saints, Loomis, and coaches' penatlies were handed out Mar 21, so why did they wait until May 02 to hand out those penalties after denying the request for delay.

Looks like this is getting interesting...

League story - Player suspensions dated May 02
Jonathan Vilma among four Saints suspended in 'bounty' case - NFL.com


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