It could be worse but...
 

We've lost our HC, interem HC, defensive captain GM and have a new DC. That's bad but we've had time to adjust and plan. Add to that we've got a whole new LBing squad that we were hoping would turn our D around. It was looking good till they ALL went down with injuries. The good news is that we'll get most of them back by the 2nd or 2rd regular season game. The bad news is they will have missed a lot of valuable time that they desperately needed to learn the the new DC's defense and to get used to their new team mates.

Thank God for Drew Brees and the offense! If we can go 4-4 in the first half of the season somebody in this organization is a genius. If we make it to playoffs and Brees doesn't finally get his MVP there's something seriously wrong.

It's amazing how this team has dealt with all the challenges that they've been forced to deal with. That's a tribute to Sean Payton and Mickey Loomis. Joe Vitt's value, I think has been pretty under appreciated by most of us, we've heard Payton talk about him but till now we haven't seen it.

Most of us remain optimistic about the upcoming season despite all of these things. I'm in that number. But I just hope that we aren't expecting too much from these guys, especially early on in the season. I still think we can win the division but think we need to be realistic. Winning 10 games will be an amazing accomplishment.

Re: It could be worse but...
 

Excuse me sir but did you watch the whole game or did you just watch the first half(which included a ridiculous amount of calls by the refs)?

Did you happen to forget the fact that we had 3 times more sacks than the texans did? Or the fact that we had more turnovers? Or the fact that our defense was capable of returning a fumble?

And this isn't some Patriots or packers defense. This is perhaps the 2nd best defense in the league and our defense just outdid them in sacks and turnovers and we're still whining about the defense(and this was WITHOUT Lofton)?

"learn the the new DC's defense and to get used to their new team mates"

Oh that's BS. He's already played 3 preseason games and done training camp so I'm sure he knows who his teammates are. He's only been with them for the LAST 2 MONTHS. I'm sure 3 games is enough to know what type he's in. If it was one game, I'd be worried.

If Curtis Lofton was able to play 25 snaps then it's not even worthy of being called an "injury".


"If we can go 4-4 in the first half of the season somebody in this organization is a genius."

Have you seen our schedule the first 8 games?

Redskins
@panthers
Chiefs
@Packers
Chargers
@Bucs
@Broncos
Eagles

Seeing as we always win at home in the regular season, the only game I have a ? for is the packers game and maybe the broncos but Manning is still a ? to me.


"Most of us remain optimistic about the upcoming season despite all of these things. I'm in that number."

I'm not so sure if you're that optimistic.
Right before you say that, you then say 10 GAMES is an amazing accomplishment even though we just went 13-3 last year and we were the 1# offense last year(and our defense was WAAYYYYYY worse last year).

Re: It could be worse but...
 

I'm feelin good about our defensive backfield. Andre Johnson was forced to make some great catches and i thought overall we covered pretty well. There were a few mistakes obviously but that's why we have preseason. Cameron Jordan, akiem Hicks, Malcolm jenkins, Johnny Patrick impressed me the most last night. I thought they played their @$$es off. Can't wait for the reg season. 14 days!!

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Oh and JUN-YAH!! He played well too

Re: It could be worse but...
 

You completely missed his point. Your arguments prove what he is saying.

The Saints are supposed to fail. Most other teams would fail under the same circumstances. Any team that can go 4 and 4, against two division rivals with the back up and the back up to the back up coach is doing something right as an organization. The fact that the defense can go through such a drastic change; new d-coordinator, new defensive captain, completely different defensive scheme but the Saints are still in contention because of the amazing offense is pretty impressive.

Re: It could be worse but...
 

I think we end up at 6-2 after the first 8 games. Losses to Carolina at Carolina and Green Bay at Green Bay. I only give us the edge against Philly because we're at home and Vick is gonna get hurt before then. If we can go 4-4 the rest of the way which we will the playoffs should be in our future at least as a wild card. Once you get there it's a whole new season and we can beat anyone.

Re: It could be worse but...
 

I do not see us dropping a Carolina game...

Re: It could be worse but...
 

No you miss the point

I'd agree with you............ if we had already played those first 8 games. But the fact that the team has done unbelievable things ALREADY and WE'RE STILL talking crap like going 10-6 even though we may just be one of the most complete teams in the NFL(next to steelers, texans, and 9ers etc) is the problem here.

The fact that this guy thinks that we'd actually struggle in the division or go 4-4 is what irks me.

I don't understand where people get this idea that we SHOULD fail. I hope people realize that every time they say that Sean Payton not being there will drastically affect the Saints. You're not complementing Payton. You're insulting him. His system is still there. His coaches are identical to his style. They do what he wants from them. They call the plays he'd call. Great coaches do that.

A decade and a half later I still bits and pieces of Bill Parcells system in play with the New York Giants. Even with Coughlin.

Jpp reminds me of LT a little bit.

Who ever said we were going 4-4 or 10-6 AT ALL? I think we could go 13-3 or 14-2 based off the look of the schedule. It's as if this guy has no hope in us.


"The fact that the defense can go through such a drastic change; new d-coordinator, new defensive captain, completely different defensive scheme but the Saints are still in contention because of the amazing offense is pretty impressive."

So if it's so impressive, why are we talking about them only going 10-6 or 4-4 or JUST BARELY winning the division? Have you seen the other elite teams defenses? The packers and patriots defenses haven't changed one bit from last year. Ours has.

What's also annoying is pointing out how great Brees is but then saying he could only carry us to 10-6. Really? Cause Manning has carried the Colts and Brady has carried the Pats to super bowls before and they had no defense. He carried us to 13-3 and we had a much worse defense last year so why should it shrink to 10-6. It's not "genius". It's Saints football.

Re: It could be worse but...
 

you also have to give the D some time to develop and implement everything that needs to...

You don't build a unit over night. You don't get all the pieces you want in one season.

Re: It could be worse but...
 

Hey guys... Um... We're on the same team right? Calm down.

Re: It could be worse but...
 

That hurricane has taken a bead on us. It just got worse. :(

Re: It could be worse but...
 

Yep, but that doesn't mean that we can't disagree with one another about all things concerned with the Saints... even very heatedly at times. ;-)

These boards would be kind of boring if we all agreed on everything and just echoed what the initial poster has stated in each thread, so I personally welcome disagreement and debate, because here it is most of the time very civil.

:bng:

Re: It could be worse but...
 

If you're irked and annoyed by other Saints fans opinions, why would you come to a place where the point is to exchange opinions?

Re: It could be worse but...
 

Hostile much?

"This guy" happens to think that 10-6 given everything that's been thrown at us will be a great accomplishment. He also thinks that you're greatly underestimating the value of Sean Payton's leadership on the sidelines and in preparation during the week.

Am I predicting 10-6? No I'm not predicting anything at this point. I don't think it's ridiculous to think that we might need a few games to hit our stride especially given the injury situation and the fact that we play in probably the toughest division in the league.

Re: It could be worse but...
 

Yeah goofsaints response was uncalled for. It's a forums and al opinions are welcome. No need to bash someone because he's happy about being 4-4 at the end of 8 games..... Remember any given Sunday.

Re: It could be worse but...
 

To be honest I won't be happy with 4-4. I think we'll win 5 or 6. But if we have trouble gelling on the D side of the ball I'm not going to panic.

Re: It could be worse but...
 

I don't see how it's uncalled for. I have an opinion too. And when you look at the 3 likes I got clearly some people agree with me.

Re: It could be worse but...
 

Cause when you come to a Saints forum and people have been talking nothing but hate and critisicm about team that they supposedly love, it gets annoying.

We're just gonna pretend the pats and cards game never happened?

Or the texans game? No we'll just look at the jags game(which actually wasn't that bad).

When people who HATE the Saints think you're going to do well and you STILL think you're struggling. There's a problem here.

I'd say some of the people here sound like falcons fans but I hear falcons fans admitting we're going to do well. Which makes it worse.

Re: It could be worse but...
 

We had Brees and 07 and 08 too. Without a head coach its going to take even more of a team effort. Saying Brees could carry us to 13-3 all by himself is asking an awful lot of him. Going 13-3 would be one of the most amazing stories in the history of the game is we could overcome that much adversity.

Re: It could be worse but...
 

I don't see how its hostile. I say "this guy" to everybody I don't know. If I offended I apologize but I still don't get it.

Sean Payton had leadership but why must we assume he was the ONLY guy with leadership skills? Drew Brees? Loftons eagerness and enjoyment playing in New Orleans has shown that he probably can be a leader.

What's been thrown at us?

We lost a head coach whose system has made it capable for his loss to mean nothing. We still have a Qb whose leadership has allowed him to be a coach on the field.
If Jim Caldwell can sit on the sidelines doing nothing while Manning wins a super bowl. Why can't Brees?

We lost a subpar defensive captain who was out of his prime and replaced him with a MUCH better player.

We lost a defensive coordinator who was the reason we couldn't win last year. Now our defense is better without him. If anything, this suspension made us better.

We have 2 interim coaches which(because of paytons system) are gonna be able to keep in snyc so that nothing changes as coaches changes.

I don't see how any of this brings us from 13-3 to 10-6.



"and the fact that we play in probably the toughest division in the league."

I giggled a bit when you said that. Really man?

NFC EAST?
NFC NORTH?
AFC NORTH?

We have a Bucs team that's rebuilding.
We have a panthers team who has a very cocky QB who WILL throw INT.
And we have an inconsistent falcons team(that just lost one of their best defensive players in LOFTON who we got) that has an inconsistent QB.


So the bucs have 2 good preseason games and suddenly they're contenders for the division?

"injury situation"

So Loftons legs a little sprained and suddenly 10-6 seems likely? Did we forget that he played on it for 25 snaps? Or that the seasons is still 2 weeks away? We hear a bit about how Darren Sproles is a little sore and suddenly "THE SEASONS OVER"!!

Re: It could be worse but...
 

If you want a site that you can go to and every post is about how awesome the Saints are and that they are going to go 16-0 blowing teams out by 40+ points that is full of know it all elitist snobs who refuse to look at fact rather decide to look at everything through black and gold glasses I can definitely recommend one. People here are a bit more down to earth and are able to look at things objectively by removing themselves from the emotional attachment to the team that posters like you can't seem to grasp. Yea we would all love to believe our team will go 13-3 but the fact remains that if we do it would be one hell of an accomplishment given the diversity we faced this offseason, the suspensions, and a tougher schedule. To think we can repeat last years record when we played damn near perfect football on the offensive side of the ball, without a coach, interim HC, GM, starting MLB, and several other players on top of the fact we have a tougher schedule is a bit of a dream. You are entitled to dream the way you want to but don't belittle other posters for looking at things in a more sane perspective. Looking at things objectively is not hate and criticism.

Re: It could be worse but...
 

Pats went 18-1 after being punished.

Wonderful. You realize you're talking about a drew brees from like 5 years ago right?

Lol now you're just making stuff up. Where did I say we'd go 16-0?

I never said that I'm irked with people who have doubts.

I'm irked with people who are pessimistic douchbags who nitpick everything.

It's not objective when you think that the 1# offense(that has shown promise in the preseason) and a decent defense(that also has shown promise) is still gonna just barely gonna win a "meh" division. You yourself should know that. Mr. I'm gonna complain about lofton playing for a few snaps even though I knew nothing about it.

We're still talking about the suspensions as if they'd largely affect us but when I look at the numbers, the opposite is true.

Re: It could be worse but...
 

The Pats didn't lose their HC for a whole season, their Interim for 6 games, their GM for 8 games either...

We are in uncharted territory, no team has ever been punished this harshly... A 10-6 season would be more than respectable, we do have a pretty tough schedule...

And as for the "meh" division comment, division games are always the toughest... Doesn't seem to matter how bad the other division teams are, they're always close games and could go either way...

Re: It could be worse but...
 

Regardless of the actual record the Saints will have after the coming season, my biggest concern is that if/when the Saints do well even under these conditions and with the staff they have - which is what I'm expecting - it'll mean that maybe all three of Spags, Carmichael, and Kromer could be gone because of it.

Both Carmichael and Kromer already interviewed for a HC position after last season (Carmichael for OAK and Kromer for IND), and Spags has openly stated that he has aspirations to have another crack at being a HC, so there might be some teams making calls to these guys if they are able to guide this Saints' team to a successful season.

It might mean that Payton will return to a much less crowded club house when his suspension finally ends, but I guess that's just something that one has to expect when their team is as good as the Saints are.

Potentially losing Kromer will probably hurt the most, and he'll be a hard guy to replace as the O-line and running game coach.

Re: It could be worse but...
 

You're not going to like me at all! LOL

Here's some pessimism for you:

Drew will throw 3 INT's in a loss this year.

We will get blown out by an inferior team at least once.

Hartley will be blamed for losing a game IF he's our kicker.

We'll lose at least one running back in regular season play.

We'll lose at least one receiver in regular season play.

... one starting corner.

... one starting safety.

... one lineman. At least one.

We'll see way too much of Shanle.

We'll blame a loss on a fumble by one of our stallions, and someone will fumble on a kickoff return.

Basically, anything other than taking things week-to-week will be nothing more than unbridled HOPE. This is the NFL. We beat the Giants last year and they won the Super Bowl.

Historically WE are the team who cannot win on the road OUTSIDE. We need to overcome that before we can predict anything.

SO MUCH TO LOOK FORWARD TO !!!

But I'm more of a Marine than a douchebag.

Now, a question for you; You got a Facebook friend named CANTON ? :smile:

Cheers and welcome,

Alaska

Re: It could be worse but...
 

Good Monday morning all you lovely Suns a biches!

No disrespect to anyone here.... If we are going to debate... wouldn't it be better served debating what we have seen and witnessed than getting way off into the weeds on intangibles?

"Feelings", are just that... and we are all wired a certain way... This has been a very stressful preseason for all of us and going after each other throat over a feeling is futile. We all state our feelings, instinctual assessments, and any retort that falls into those categories is just a point of reference which has to be played out to see what is correct and incorrect.

Both positive and negative natures have value in a forum. If we all agreed then this site would be less 400k posts.

Preseason games do not count but they do matter.... Everyone also has to keep in mind that preseason games are vanilla strategies and our execution in the regular season will look much different. Some teams actually play preseason with their full game plan... In those games its someones Superbowl winning strategy against... in our case.... A basic fundamental defense. It will look lopsided. Spags has thrown our defense at our offense, now he is throwing it at other offenses, but he is throwing basics at them to make sure we are lining up correctly, handling the assignments correctly, proper tackling, etc.... We have to execute the elementary... Once we do that, then the complex just becomes an extension of the basic.

If anyone is comparing our defensive performance to that of Houston, or SF,last year regular season... your doing your self a disservice. Compare our defense right now (with the idea that its vanilla) against our defense the last three years. With a scale from -5 to 0 to +5 (last years defense being the 0... We are at a 2 right now. We are getting more pressure on the QB than I have seen in a year or two. Our penetration is a hell of a lot better, we are forcing turnovers, we are a C-hair from multiple interceptions in a game, tackling is near where it should be (I have yet to see one of those GW era spear tackles)... Are there missed plays... yes there are... for every team.

Our offense is on point.
Our defense is +2 better than it was last year so far.

Unless we have a coaching melt down during a game I do not see us dropping many. At this point, access based on what you see and know, not what the talking heads keep regurgitating..The are the same people that called the Eagles, Dallas, and Jets Super Bowl contenders and in some cases Dream Teams..

We are not the Pats that went 16-0 after video gate.... We are not in the middle of a meltdown as the talking heads say... We are the New Orleans Saints, we have not won less than 11 games in 3 years and I can not for the life of me see how we are a worse team than we were in 2010.

We have not missed a playoff appearance in 3 years and we are not going to ***n start now.

Re: It could be worse but...
 

Good post x626. Just to be clear, I did not predict 10-6. My exact words were,"Winning 10 games will be an amazing accomplishment." I stand by that. I did predict we'd win the division. Does anyone think 10-6 will win it?

Goofysaint, I agree with most of what you say but your hostile tone and calling people douchebags for having a different opinion is uncalled for. It seems immature.

Re: It could be worse but...
 

I think you are dead on! I was taken aback by Boutte's opening post, too. I see this team as a 12-14 win team WITH everything that has happened.

Re: It could be worse but...
 

Winning ten games would be an amazing accomplishment for some teams, but it would be a total collapse for this Saints team.

Re: It could be worse but...
 

I'll be happy winning ten games with the adversity we have faced this offseason. I think we'll win more than 10, but no one knows how the team will handle themselves without their HC and Interim for 6 games...

Re: It could be worse but...
 

My gut from all the statements and commentary I have seen is that the team has put the issues behind them.

Living with the outcome with out letting it effect their play. An "it is what it is, we are moving on with business " approach.

Re: It could be worse but...
 

All here could be right.
Injuries in key positions and all these predictions go out the window.
We will all be pulling for the 6-2 Saints just like for a 4-4 Saints team at the half.
Everything has to fall in place (outside forces) and every player has to
(forgive me) "do their job" and play in the moment, every week.
I'm hoping for a 12+ win season, but if things unravel a bit, I won't be surprised.
It's a difficult proposition even when things a stable from the top down.
The locker room could get ugly without a stern hand to squash destructive attitudes.
This season will be measured by how we respond to the set backs.

Re: It could be worse but...
 

HA HA!
If this was my "home-forum", I may take offense in that... no, not really...

Re: It could be worse but...
 

I predict we win the mammy-frackin' Super Bowl. Yeah, I said it.

Re: It could be worse but...
 

The pats still sure as heck weren't expected to go 18-1. A system with the way that way payton built it and with how the saints have prepared themselves will allow his loss to mean nothing(though it'll be good when we get him back cause this can probably last for only one season). The fluidity of interim coach to interim coach due to how well the system is done will allow us to compete normally.

That depends on the game

Some of our best blowouts were against divisional teams?

panthers 45-17

falcons 45-16

bucs 27-16



Yes we lost to tampa bay but that was because payton got hurt halfway through and nobody was prepared for it. We've had 5 months to prepare ourselves now.


The point is, when you go to up to a neutral football fan and ask them "hey whose gonna win the NFC south"? What do you think their first choice will be? Cause it sure isn't gonna be the freaking panthers.

Re: It could be worse but...
 

Don't see how I'm supposed to look forward to something that you just made up.


Brees less long shots as he is now and upgrading the running game makes it hard for me to believe the INT comment.

Re: It could be worse but...
 

1. You think the packers are gonna go 10-6? Or the 9ers? Or the Pats? The packers have a way more tough division than us but nobody is wondering to the possibility that the packers may just go 10-6? The packers haven't upgraded their defense one bit.

2. I never called anybody here a douchebag. I was implying that people who consider themselves saints fans have never ever once said what they liked about the saints or said how good they looked. I was not referring to you or anyone in here.

3. What you call a "hostile tone" is simply somebody disagreeing with you. I apologize if you find that aggressive. It's just frustrating when you see all this progress and evolution of our team and then someone sums that up in "10-6" or "just barely winning the division" yet we have the same caliber to be like the 9ers, packers, pats etc.

4. Please stop righting me off to be the bad guy here.

Re: It could be worse but...
 

AND THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.

WHO DAT!

Re: It could be worse but...
 

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. We all have varying degrees of comfort for the team this year.
Arguing about it and calling people out isn't the way to get your point across.
You are a new member here and I have a feeling you were banned from another forum the way you just showed up here and started name calling.

I'm going out on a limb here but I don't see us being friends. :cool:

Re: It could be worse but...
 

Say it ain't so...


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