Mortgage the farm?
 

Its no secret that we have an exceptionally successful offense and a...well, we technically have a defense, but aside from that there's not much to talk about. If our "window" is still open, and the needs are almost purely on the defensive side of the ball, then is now the time to pull the trigger on getting an "instant impact" player for our defense? What are your thoughts on trading some picks/players in order to get another 1st/ another 2nd rounder on defense (and hopefully der kommisar gives us back our 2nd if we continue to not experience success this year) to give Spags some more help? It looks like he may have struck gold with Hicks, and Corey White isn't a stellar corner yet, but he looks better every game. Thoughts?

(And for this thread's sake, pretend that we DON'T desperately need a serviceable OT, because that is another obvious area that we must improve as well)

Re: Mortgage the farm?
 

I wouldn't, betting the house on one or even a few players to hit "your window" is the type of thing the mediocre teams do to win one championship every 10 years and keep their fans placated. How many times have you seen the Pats or the Giants make a big one-year move? How many times has that even worked? Honestly, I think we did that when we hired GW, and I'm happy we did, but I want to see us turn into a team that builds slowly and methodically, with consistent success, than a team that floats around 7-10 wins and tries to "make a run" every few years.

Re: Mortgage the farm?
 

The problem is, other than our marquee players, no one is going to trade players and/or picks for an immediate impact player.

Also, what player/s are out there that a team would be willing to trade that is WORTH it for both teams?

I personally think the Saints should look at Shawn Merriman, IF he can be signed cheaply!

Re: Mortgage the farm?
 

So long as his walker and FiberOne cereal don't count against the salary cap, he should be pretty cheap.

Re: Mortgage the farm?
 

I agree with the slow and methodical approach to building a team, and from an offensive standpoint that strategy has definitely netted us some nice returns.

But for some reason there is a disconnect between our offensive scouting/talent evaluations and our defensive scouts/evals. I'm not sure why, but it is unquestionably there. If you were to give Spags a couple of top-tier guys to work with that were his choices, well, I'm just curious to see I guess

How about Ivory for a 7th rounder, package that and our other 6th and 7th (and maybe 5th) for another 3rd/4th rd pick? I'm no expert on the value tables that the teams use for picks/trades

And I'm just gonna pretend I didn't hear that comment about Merriman. He's nothing without his trusty PEDs, and he's just plain out of his prime. Price tag would have to be him paying US to play lol

Re: Mortgage the farm?
 

I know this is inconsistent, but I also believe in Spags, and if he thinks a couple of guys out there can rejuvenate our D, then I would give him full confidence to go ahead and get whoever he wants that we can reasonably obtain. It would be a big mistake to bring someone in like him and force him to work with what we give him. You can't make a 5-star dinner with chicken mcnuggets, GIVE THE MAN SOME STEAK!

Re: Mortgage the farm?
 

Remember, Spags coached the winless Rams. Oh, that's right, they did manage to beat us.

I was optimistic when he came aboard as well, but without Sean Payton's leadership, he's just a failed head coach.

We need to stop trading successful, proven players.

We need a Suggs, or a Suh, unfortunately, to light up this defense the way Sharper did.

Alaska

Re: Mortgage the farm?
 

This right here. Scheme and teaching will only get you so far when you are competing against athletes of NFL caliber.

Agreed, totally. But remember the old adage, you gotta spend money to make money. Loomis is a cap genius, and the additions we got this year are only going to make us better in the long run (he said hopefully)

I feel like your point about needing a Suggs, a Suh, etc.., is right on- for whatever reason, the D played better with Sharper there, and that season was bookended by some not-so-great performances out of many of the same players

Re: Mortgage the farm?
 

Trouble is, we DID bring in some (allegedly) quality talent in the offseason. Grubbs, Bunkley, Hawthorne, Lofton, even Ruud were expected to make an impact ... and so far NOBODY has.

We made moves this past offseason, we signed some quality free-agents, and we're 0-3. I'm as lost as the rest of you ... :(

Re: Mortgage the farm?
 

Not only are at a lost but the team is at a lost. No one knows what end is up!

Re: Mortgage the farm?
 

Good grief. We were 13-3 last year and we're the winningest team in the entire league over the last 3 or 4 years.

Mortgaging the farm is exactly what the best teams DO NOT do.

We have a recipe for success, why alter it?

Re: Mortgage the farm?
 

What on our team and that would actually yield us value in a trade?

The players we want to continue to build our team around. The Saints are not a reclamation project.

Re: Mortgage the farm?
 

Agreed we have a recipe for success, but please see my earlier post in this thread regarding the discrepancies between our offensive vs defensive draft/trade acquisitions

and to be honest, the thread title was a cheap ploy to get people to click. Sorry. It's my first thread ever, I'll know better next time

Re: Mortgage the farm?
 

Please see my post earlier regarding trades/using draft picks for more picks, etc...

Re: Mortgage the farm?
 

Bringing in Spags was a good move his success as a HC with the Rams organization doesn't detract from the fact that he was a good DC with the Giants. Some guys never can make the grade as HC's there is a lot of components to run an entire team. I still say without Vilma on the field making on the fly adjustments leaves us at a major disadvantage.

Team Captains
Offense QB Drew Brees, T Zach Strief
Defense S Roman Harper, S Malcolm Jenkins
Special Teams WR Courtney Roby

Re: Mortgage the farm?
 

I still think that this team has enough talent on the defensive side of the ball to be a solid top 15 defense, but that is predicated on them trusting the scheme and playing their positions as they are supposed to be played according to the scheme - no more missed assignments or tackles!

If they can become that type of a defense and find their identity in the next couple of weeks, I think this season is still totally salvageable.

But a lot of the pressure and finger pointing should also be directed at the offense, because they haven't been doing the defense any favors themselves during the first 3 weeks of the season. And while it might seem unfair to some that the offense is demanded to, in a way, protect the defense - when their salaries consist of almost 1.5 times what the defensive players are getting, I think they have to be held accountable for that.

Lastly, to answer the initial question, I don't think the Saints should try and make an impact trade for a defensive superstar, because there probably isn't a trade like that available to be made at this point in the season, and the Saints would in all likelihood end up paying more than what they'd get in return. It's really hard to see how a single player or two could bring about a drastic change in how the defense performs as a whole - all of the defensive players need to step up and play at the level they are all capable of. It's not like the coaches are asking the impossible out of them: just do your job!

Hopefully, they'll be able to get some good defensive rookies in the next draft and sign some impact FAs in the offseason... thankfully, at least Ellis will be gone with his inflated price tag come next season.

:bng:

Re: Mortgage the farm?
 

I've always been an advocate of building from the trenches outward. Of course you need your great athletes at the skill positions, but winning the line of scrimmage to me is what wins games. Our d-line and o-lines need the most help. We don't need to draft another offensive weapon. Given time Drew can make anyone dangerous. We don't need more corners who have to cover for 20 seconds because no one can get to the QB. We need an elite pass rusher. We also need some talent at the OT position. We should have a top 10 pick. Grab the best available lineman on either side and find a good one in FA and we are instantly better. I think our offense and back 7 defense is good enough if we can improve the lines.

Re: Mortgage the farm?
 

Man Jarvis Jones would be just what we need.

Re: Mortgage the farm?
 

With just two components added to the D, we would be extremely successful, just TWO

We need a DE that can consistently get to the QB a type of player that resembles demarcus ware, jared allen, aldon smith, justin tuck

We need a ball hawk, Jenkins aint cutting it, he would make a good SS but not a FS, he doesnt have the instincts for the position and regularly gets caught out of position. We need someone like what earl thomas is for seattle, a dangerous safety that you need to know where he is, because one slip up and its going the other way.

If you imagine we get those two positions filled, Our LB's will eventually find their groove.
Cam Jordan is by far our best defensive player at the minute and looks fast our there, if we got the positions filled it would give martez time to develop as a pass rusher and most importantly put will smith on the bench.

Our DB's would play better because they could trust the safety to be back there, none of our DB's can trust malcolm jenkins because one stutter move and he's trailing the WR immediately.

Re: Mortgage the farm?
 

I know you know football better than most, but I must disagree with your Jenkins assessment.

Its our CBs and LB's that are getting abused in the passing game. Granted Greer has been out and Robinson/Patrick were banged up. White is understandably getting schooled right now, but we've seen enough flashes to know this raw prospect looks like a solid prospect with some more development.

I do agree a stud RDE is a must. But I'd list both OLB spots as being more critical than upgrading Jenkins. I'd even list a stud DT alongside Bunkley as a must have also before FS. Hicks looks like he may just be that guy. He looks beastly.

Re: Mortgage the farm?
 

How very true. And the only likely way to get one is through the draft. There's no way to trade for someone of that quality - well, maybe if the team you're trading with is in cap hell, is losing, and is a bit fed up with their star player. And even then it will cost 2 first rounders and a second rounder.

The only player-for-draft-picks trade that actually netted a blockbuster player (that I can remember) was when Green Bay gave up a first round for Brett Favre. That cost a first round pick, but was only so cheap because he was Atlanta's third choice QB and a bit of a hellraiser. They didn't know how good he was.