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Trade Value and Package

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by halloween 65 I would love to have a nose tackle to take Ellis's spot, a Demarecus Ware to take Smiths spot, or a thumper FS to take Jenkins spot. Lord knows I would love to have a ...

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Old 10-06-2012, 06:24 AM   #21
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Re: Trade Value and Package

Originally Posted by halloween 65 View Post
I would love to have a nose tackle to take Ellis's spot, a Demarecus Ware to take Smiths spot, or a thumper FS to take Jenkins spot. Lord knows I would love to have a second coming of the Dome Patrol. I would package those 3 for any of the above position players, now for Ingram and Smith that could have has value we might could offer them for Jarrod Allen . I would love that. Jenkins and Ellis you might get the mascotts sweatty socks for that pair. I just don't see a great DT sent to us for any of those but possibly a DE. Still no push up the middle. I feel your pain!!

There's no way the Vikes would accept that trade.

Their backfield has been revamped and is looking very good at the moment, so I don't think they'd want a DB from the Saints, unless it was either Greer or Robinson. They have 3 young starter caliber safeties (Smith, Raymond, Sanford) who have really performed well so far, so I don't think they would want Jenkins and certainly not Harper.

Also, they have no need for a RB since Peterson has made an almost miracle recovery to form after the big injury he received late last season. And they have Toby Gerhart to be the short yardage power back for the change of pace... and a very promising Matt Asiata as the third RB, who really flashed big time a couple of times during the preseason, and who the coaches reportedly are very high one for future.

And that defensive front 4 of theirs has been working really well this season, so I don't think they'd want to make any personnel changes to it, and while Allen's big salary could be seen as an incentive to trade him away - he is also one of the most popular players on that team, and he brings in a lot of fans and interest toward the team.


I know you were talking hypothetically... just spit-balling, but all I'm saying is that it would be hard for any team to get Allen from the Vikes, and it would be that for the Saints. It would probably take a Jimmy Graham package to make it work if the Saints really wanted Allen above all else.
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Old 10-06-2012, 09:10 AM   #22
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Re: Trade Value and Package

Originally Posted by FinSaint View Post
There's no way the Vikes would accept that trade.

Their backfield has been revamped and is looking very good at the moment, so I don't think they'd want a DB from the Saints, unless it was either Greer or Robinson. They have 3 young starter caliber safeties (Smith, Raymond, Sanford) who have really performed well so far, so I don't think they would want Jenkins and certainly not Harper.

Also, they have no need for a RB since Peterson has made an almost miracle recovery to form after the big injury he received late last season. And they have Toby Gerhart to be the short yardage power back for the change of pace... and a very promising Matt Asiata as the third RB, who really flashed big time a couple of times during the preseason, and who the coaches reportedly are very high one for future.

And that defensive front 4 of theirs has been working really well this season, so I don't think they'd want to make any personnel changes to it, and while Allen's big salary could be seen as an incentive to trade him away - he is also one of the most popular players on that team, and he brings in a lot of fans and interest toward the team.


I know you were talking hypothetically... just spit-balling, but all I'm saying is that it would be hard for any team to get Allen from the Vikes, and it would be that for the Saints. It would probably take a Jimmy Graham package to make it work if the Saints really wanted Allen above all else.
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Old 10-06-2012, 11:35 PM   #23
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Re: Trade Value and Package

Best trade value and smartest move - though most unpopular...

Pierre Thomas -

What makes him attractive?

Established, flexible running back who can contribute in any offense because of his multiple skill set and friendly cap number...

Why keep him?

He's very reliable; no one run's the screen better in the league than PT; though he's our highest paid running back, he's got a friend cap number...

What to expect for PT?

Nothing less than a Second Round Pick; and do the deal why Loomis is on hiatis 'cause Loomis gives it up like a b*tch in trades, not getting fair value in return...

Players I would trade in exchange -

FS Matt Giordano OAK
FS Robert Johnson TEN
LB Jonas Mouton SD
DE Mathias Kiwanuka NYG

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Old 10-07-2012, 10:17 AM   #24
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Re: Trade Value and Package

And we have to find a way to get back to drafting Defensive Ends that make the ProBowl at least in one decade...
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Old 10-08-2012, 02:13 PM   #25
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Re: Trade Value and Package

Originally Posted by jeanpierre View Post
Best trade value and smartest move - though most unpopular...

Pierre Thomas -

What makes him attractive?

Established, flexible running back who can contribute in any offense because of his multiple skill set and friendly cap number...

Why keep him?

He's very reliable; no one run's the screen better in the league than PT; though he's our highest paid running back, he's got a friend cap number...

What to expect for PT?

Nothing less than a Second Round Pick; and do the deal why Loomis is on hiatis 'cause Loomis gives it up like a b*tch in trades, not getting fair value in return...

Players I would trade in exchange -

FS Matt Giordano OAK
FS Robert Johnson TEN
LB Jonas Mouton SD
DE Mathias Kiwanuka NYG
You do not trade an "in prime" player for a "project" unless you have two at that position, which we do not... And trading an "in prime" player for the draft lottery is a HUGE gamble that what you want will be available and that he will be what you think he is..

PT for whats behind curtain #2 would not be a wise choice.
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Old 10-08-2012, 03:02 PM   #26
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Re: Trade Value and Package

I know some may disagree with this assessment, but I really honestly don't think that a lot of teams out there would want to pony up big picks or big players in a trade for Pierre Thomas... He is tremendously under rated around the league, and while WE all know he's great, in the big picture he's just... not a very hot commodity and not really on other people's radar out there. He never gets mentioned in any conversation about running backs. Went undrafted. Not really from a school people know. Gets 500, 600 yards rushing in a season, which is not really that special, on paper compared to well known, big name, every-down backs. Was injured for a while and people kind of forgot about him.

If you didn't watch him every Sunday, or really know football, most people would probably look at Pierre on paper and think he was just another pedestrian sort of middle-tier running back who can catch a little bit, running behind that great Saints O-line making him look good (I'm not saying I believe this, but this is how people "out there" think about the Saints). If you were a clueless coach or GM, and didn't really know how the Saints and Sean Payton do things, you might even assume that big-name, well-known Mark Ingram was brought in specifically because Pierre wasn't really all that good or that there was something wrong with him.

Sorry, I just don't see it likely that many teams out there would look at Pierre and be like OMG PIERRE THOMAS IS OUR MISSING PIECE, THE GUY WE'VE GOT TO GET and giving up anything significant or major to get him.
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Old 10-08-2012, 03:11 PM   #27
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Re: Trade Value and Package

Until Ingram does some things on the field to make people sit up and take notice he'll never be worth much on the 'block IMO.

Like a few others out there, I'm a believer that he hasn't been put in the most ideal positions to shine, as per his talents, but at the end of the day it really makes no difference. Its horrendously, completely unfairly simple: take the ball, make something happen. And until he does that with what he's given I don't think he'll ever be worth much to anybody else. Just my couple cents
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Old 10-08-2012, 03:13 PM   #28
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Re: Trade Value and Package

I am just glad no one on this forum does our trading...

Brees, Coleston, PT,... all would be gone.

Shanle and cockroaches all that would be left.
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Old 10-08-2012, 03:47 PM   #29
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Re: Trade Value and Package

If you can't generate a good pass rush(yes coach Mora, I know I wouldn't recognize a good pass rush if I saw one) with your front 4 it doesn't matter who you have behind them. On some of the plays Rivers had all night to find a receiver.
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Old 10-09-2012, 10:38 AM   #30
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Re: Trade Value and Package

Originally Posted by Shoe. View Post
Until Ingram does some things on the field to make people sit up and take notice he'll never be worth much on the 'block IMO.

Like a few others out there, I'm a believer that he hasn't been put in the most ideal positions to shine, as per his talents, but at the end of the day it really makes no difference. Its horrendously, completely unfairly simple: take the ball, make something happen. And until he does that with what he's given I don't think he'll ever be worth much to anybody else. Just my couple cents
Well Ingram did some things on the field Sunday night that probably went unnoticed. We came out with the heavy run formation with Ingram and Collins in the backfield a couple of times which was the perfect decoy. The Chargers brought 8 in the box and it left Devery in man coverage which he beat for a long gain on our last TD drive. If we continue to use Ingram on some pass plays it will show up on game tape and maybe he will not face as many 8 men in the box situations which will allow him more yards since defense will have to think about the pass a little more. We did this formation at least twice Sunday and it was successful both times.
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