Conspiracy Theory
 

Since someone else touched upon this in a thread I figured I could lay out my conspiracy theory and at least one person wouldn't think I am batsh1t crazy.

I will lay out some structure.

Rank and file for the NFL:
Owners (34) Two teams are co-owned (Raiders/Giants) and Green Bay Packers Inc. (363,491 stockholders) owns the Packers (Owners collectively referred to as the "NFL Shield" for the rest of this)
Godedell - Meat puppet for Owners. Protector of the Shield (Owners interest)
Coaches - I think players and coaches are on equal levels because the NFLPA is stronger than the NFLCA
Players - Enployees / Salesmen

Reasons 95% of the owners own a team:
Make Money - These are businessmen.

Largest item threatening the NFL Shield:
As of 2 September 2012, there are roughly 140 individual lawsuits brought on behalf of over 3,300 former NFL players.

What does the NFL Shield have to rebut those lawsuits:
Until 21 March 2012, nothing... Then they perused a systemic Bounty program.

Whats to gain or lose from perusing or not Bounty punishment:
To recognize NFL bounties in realistic terms, is to admit bounties are a systemic part of the NFL for decades. It also means that the NFL Shield has no plausible "we have taken reasonable actions to protect our players", in a courtroom to defend against the Concussion Suits. To pursue it gives them "reasonable" actions taken.

What Does the NFL Shield risk with bounty gate? A black eye.
What Does the NFL Shield risk not pursuing bounty gate? Being destroyed by law suits.

Who gets hurt due to Bounty Gate? 4 members of management of 1 team, 4 players, and the fans of 1 of 32 franchises. Also a commissioner who understands his place as meat shield has his name drug through the dirt because he is inept.

So now I have laid out the risk reward. Doing nothing risks the entire league and 32 franchises. Pursuing it is minimal damage.

The Select Players Punished: (out of supposedly more than 20 Saints/ probably hundreds in the league)
Vilma - 8 year veteran near end of career and has been accused of Bounty before.
Smith - 9 year veteran near end of career.
Fujita - 11 year veteran near end of career, and heralded for his integrity.
Hargrove - 8 year veteran near end of his career, the man that was caught on tape wanting his money but later proven to have not been that guy. He is still tangled up in this because he lied.

Lay suits by these players for lost wages if the truth ever came out would be minimal as not many of them have much of a career left.

The Juicy Conspiracy Theory:
In an effort to save his Empire from law suits (lets face it, season ticket sales have not dropped off, and I doubt the sales of Saint's merchandise will be off for more than one season) Tom Benson not only knew about Bounty Gate before it came down, but was part of the reason it happened. He allowed it, he ushered it, and he sits back quietly watching it happen to protect his investment in court.

Not possible you say? This is the same man that wanted to move the team to San Antonio for "business reasons".

A few questions for you to think about before you reply:

1. What owner of a company (Saints) would allow an employee (Goodell) punish him? Unless he was OK with it?

2. If the owners had no hand in this and no buy in, do you think Jerry Jones would let the Dallas Cowboys get massacred in the media like this as Benson has?

3. Which team in the NFL has the most loyal fans that have endured the most losing seasons, hurricanes, team almost moved, yet STILL remain loyal?

4. Which team with those fans could be publicly massacred with out scaring the precious chosen teams that the NFL adores?

So we as fans have fallen for the plan. The plan was to protect the NFL Shield in court, Goodell is the scape goat for the owners and would weather all of the hate and blame.

The NFL shield is protecting its multibillion dollar empire, by crippling one franchise on the field for only one season.

Starting 2013, the Saints will have recovered, ticket and merchandise sales will have recovered, All Players and Coaches will be back, and the NFL has something they can use in court to protect its multibillion dollar empire against concussion lawsuits.

Quite possibly the soundest business plan ever put together to protect an Empire. Hate on Goodell... nahh he is just a pupet with a lot of hands up his azz. Benson is the man that should be taken to task for allowing all of this. And if Benson is not the man and a part of all of this.. SHAME on him for getting fat watching it.

Re: Conspiracy Theory
 

Are you also suggesting we may have won a Super Bowl as a form of payment for such a deviously contrived plan?

Re: Conspiracy Theory
 

You know I'm with ya. Benson is way to quiet about all of this. This is all part of the plan which is why I hope Vilma keeps at it because if he is successful, it negates what they are trying to do.

Let's face it, if our damn organization wasn't so sloppy, this could be happening to another team. We made it easy pickens.

Re: Conspiracy Theory
 

Nope, not at all. Since the plan didn't gain any of its evidence until we were already in the play offs. We won the Super Bowl out right...

We also with no small part going to Williams and a guy with a camera in the locker room served it up on a silver platter.

It is interesting that 2009 was the year we were supposedly notified to stop the bounties (as if we were the only team), and the year the NFL had to defend its policies on concussions in front of congress.

I always go back to this. IF the NFL wanted ALL bounties to stop, they would have released a public statement to ALL 32 teams telling them to stop, and there would be zero tolerance after that statement.

But they didn't want them all to stop, not until they had someone to be sacrificed in the name of bounties... so they supposedly memo'd 1 team.... Looking for the goat.

Re: Conspiracy Theory
 

Well, the investigation of the Saints clearly came out of that NFC Championship game, and out of the Vikings/Childress and their fans complaining and whining and mewling about it, after the fact. If they didn't whine and complain about it so much, nobody would be talking about this at all today. If this supposed "bounty" stuff happened in a game of Cleveland vs. Jacksonville, and was a "bounty" somebody had on Brady Quinn or Todd Bouman in 2009, no one would even freaking care. The punishment would be minimal, some lumps would be taken, small announcement, and the story would be OVER.

It's not very hard to see that the Saints weren't supposed to win that game, that the Saints in the Super Bowl was not the outcome "they" -- meaning not just Goodell, or the NFL "shield", but also the big media and the network and "the fans" and frankly most of the world -- wanted to see. That's when all the trouble started. To me, that's the Juicy Conspiracy Theory that keeps sticking its ugly head up, no matter how people try and beat it back, or label it as Tin Foil Hat, or say it's Paranoia or "Saints fans are crazy" or whatever. Again and again, in every memo and public statement, Goodell and the whole bounty thing is ludicrously focused on Favre and that NFC Championship game, it is kind of obvious and not subtle at all. The rest of the evidence is basically just window dressing to point back to that game.

They even changed the rules of playoff overtime for the first time since 1941, the following spring, as quick as they could, just because the Saints won that game. No other plausible reason for it. Changing the overtime rules = them openly saying, they think the outcome of that game was incorrect. That was the rules of the game and they didn't like how it turned out. So this way in their minds they can retro actively give the ball back to Favre one more time, and he scores a TD instead of throwing a pick, and then it's Favre vs. Manning, the game "everybody" wanted to see.

They even rigged and engineered the vote with the owners, on the rule change, so that they knew they had enough votes to pass it, then let the Vikings switch and vote against it, so as to save face.

Re: Conspiracy Theory
 

The warning from the League was given to the saints in 2009.

The Vikings game was in 2010.

It did not come from the 2010 Championship game.

Re: Conspiracy Theory
 

You sure on that? It definitely came from the 2010 Championship game, have you got a link that shows otherwise?

This thread says investigation started in 2010:
http://blackandgold.com/saints/43112...-timeline.html

New York Times:

"In case you need a timeline of this whole bizarre case:

March 2: N.F.L. announces investigation into potential bounty program by Saints, first reported to the league by an anonymous player in 2010 and, the league says, corroborated with more evidence in 2011.


Wikipedia:
"The NFL began investigating the Saints in 2010 in response to allegations of deliberate attempts to injure players during the 2009–10 playoffs, but the investigation stalled until late in the 2011 season. blah blah blah"

I have seen nothing that said the league investigated bounties on the Saints in 2009.

Re: Conspiracy Theory
 

The weird thing is ... the NFL is the one that made a big stink about Bountygate and bounty systems!

I doubt any of the former players or their attorney really had this on their radar at all until the NFL went all nuts and public about it, calling out the Saints. Why didn't the NFL just keep it under the rug, what little impact the any alleged or attempted bounties actually had? It's just a desperation PR attempt by the NFL to hopefully get a jury member or two to vote in their favor, even though most of the lawsuits will involve players that never played for the Saints or whose medical conditions who have nothing to do with bounties.

Now we can see this tactic will backfire, and the owners just need to man up and give more medical compensation to former NFL players before it gets any more expensive for them. Other corporations have survived litigation and so can the NFL. I wish the NFL would just take it on the chin rather than playing gymnastics with the justice system.

And hmmm now that I think about it ... all these bounty cases will take a lot of time to sort out and their lawyers will probably claim the bounty cases need to be resolved before player injury trials can resume. So perhaps it's merely a stalling tactic.

Re: Conspiracy Theory
 

And the thing is, regardless, ultimately that's exactly what's going to happen. The NFL will surely have to 'take it on the chin' as you suggest. That is a virtual certainty. There is simply too much evidence against it - Roger's appearance before Congress with the NFL doctor included. It's a desperate attempt that WILL fail.

Re: Conspiracy Theory
 

x626, that still does not explain Benson hiring Freech's high dollar investigative firm to get to the bottom of it. Are you saying this was a front as well? I personally think Benson is a small fry in terms of the owners. A lot of his loyalties are either dead or were pushed out years ago. I do agree though with the Saints being a prime candidate for this punishment. We are without question the loyalists fans in the NFL. Win or lose, we really just want to be entertained and have a good time. This isn't the case with most teams. Losing in epic fashion is just a part of La culture as Monday Red Beans and Rice.

Re: Conspiracy Theory
 

I knew it!!!!!
There is a conspiracy!!!:ubl:

Re: Conspiracy Theory
 

There is one thing you don't have in there, which I think plays a bigger role in this whole bounty mess than most people realize: US Congress. Goodell got reamed by a Congressional panel on player safety in 2009. The collection of ex-player lawsuits is one thing, but the NFL's antitrust exemption is another. With the money the NFL makes, they could easily work settlements with ex-players that get paid over time, just like the tobacco industry did. BUT, if US Congress gets pissed off enough at the NFL and decides to revisit the Sports Broadcasting Act of 1961...

Re: Conspiracy Theory
 

I'm completely lost....this reminds me of the Sicillian on Princess of the Bride.

Clearly I couldn't choose the cup in front of you. But you knowing I was intelligent and wouldn't choose the cup in front of you means that I clearly couldn't choose the cup in front of me.

LMAO!

Re: Conspiracy Theory
 

My Conspiracy theory which holds far more weight is this is just a plot to make sure the Saints DO NOT get to the Super Bowl in their own stadium.

I find it even a little more supporting of this with the fact Goodell reissued the suspensions following a Saints win.

Why didnt he do that before when they were losing?

I dont believe in coincidences and their is too many of them.


I can tell you another one to;

Referees from this point may aid the Saints greatly from this point on in order to get revenge on the NFL and Goodell, whereas the replacement officials pretty much blew 4 games that the Saints could of won.

Re: Conspiracy Theory
 

They also tried to hire Jeb Bush before Goodell. A man with 0 .0 football experience. When he turned them down they went with Roger. His wife, her father was on the Bush administration. They knew this was coming.

Re: Conspiracy Theory
 

Sign me up.
And in the off-season, Benson buys a basketball team? Or was it baseball? Hell, I know nothing but football.

Alaska

Re: Conspiracy Theory
 

Then... Peyton Manning stormed off after losing the Super Bowl... WITHOUT shaking hands! He also felt CHEATED.

I'm subscribing. Seriously.

Re: Conspiracy Theory
 

Too much has happened for this to be just a vendetta. For it to have gone this far and for Goodell to go as far as he went with the punishments...IT HAS TO BE ABOUT MONEY...(concussion lawsuits pending) AND GOODELL HAS TO BE ACTING AS A PUPPET FOR THE OWNERS. NO COMMISIONER WOULD EVER DO THE THINGS HE IS DOING UNLESS HE KNEW HE HAD FULL SUPPORT OF ALL THE OWNERS.

JMO, though...:)

What was the outcome of that investigation? We heard he hires that team but its findings were never released as far as I know.

Which leaves us with three plausible reasons.
1. It was a front.
2. It found the league was correct.
3. It found the league was wrong..... If this was it's findings why is it not being used in court?

I can find the Freeh report on pen state but not Bounty gate.

Re: Conspiracy Theory
 

Those statements are true the "official investigation" announcement was in 2010.

Put your investigator hat on for a minute and think about this. Would you "publicly announce" an investigation before you start? Are you giving the party you are investigating time to warm up the shredders?

Would you announce a public investigation of a multimillion dollar franchise before you had done a preliminary investigation and found probable cause to go public?

Why would you publicly announce a public investigation if not for a "dog and pony" show? The league investigating the Saints is essentially the league investigating it self.

Remember all of the "The saints were told to stop and they didnt"... Isnt that the reason for all of this? Why would the league tell the Saints to stop something in 2009 if they had no knowledge of this?

This was well underway and going on before the Vikings game.
"The league said that the Saints’ owner, Tom Benson, cooperated with the investigation and that when he was made aware of the new information in January before the playoffs, he told Loomis to stop the bounties immediately. Loomis did not take any action, the league said. When the initial allegation was made in 2010, Loomis denied any knowledge of the bounties and pledged that he would make sure no program was in place. "
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/03/sp...opponents.html

So no.. The investigation did not come out of the NFC Championship game against the Vikings... it was in full swing before.

Re: Conspiracy Theory
 

Well 626 you have lost me on believing in your theory, my friend, because there is no indication AT ALL in the record that the Saints were being investigated prior to the spring of 2010 after the NFC Championship. It ALL started with the playoffs and with the Vikings whining about the Championship game, not before. Every single source agrees on this: the players, the media, the lawyers, the NFL itself.

Re-read the NY Times article you just linked to and quoted from:

The investigation, led by the N.F.L.’s vice president for security, Jeffrey Miller, the former commissioner of the Pennsylvania State Police, began in 2010, when an unnamed player accused the Saints of targeting opponents, including Favre and Kurt Warner, who as quarterback of the Arizona Cardinals briefly left a playoff game against the Saints after taking a hard hit. That player retracted the allegation, which could not be corroborated at the time, but the investigation was revived in the latter part of the 2011 season when the N.F.L. received what it called significant and credible new information."

The "before the playoffs" you mention refers to the 2011 season, when they came to Benson circa the Lions game, not the playoffs of the 2009-10 season. That's why it was "new information" as opposed to just "information" -- this was round II of the investigation, after they had "told the Saints to stop" in early 2010 but supposedly they/Loomis (really Gregg Williams) didn't.

There was no "announcement" of the original investigation in 2010, no one knew in the public about it, at all, until much much later. In 2010 there was just some grumbling from Childress in an interview and Kluwe whining about it on the radio and the pictures of Favre's hip or thigh or whatever it was, posted on the internet.

I like that you are thinking critically about it and trying to piece it together, but your timeline is just off -- none of this was going on in regards to the Saints before the Vikings game, earlier in the 2009 season, none of it regarding the Saints. The 2009 congressional hearing on concussions that spooked Goodell so bad, were in LATE October of 2009.

I actually agree with you, that Benson is kind of holding his tongue, and sitting on the fence a little bit, in regards to the concussion thing. But I don't think it's nearly as sinister as you guys think it is. I think it is other reasons -- namely, he is hosting a Super Bowl in a couple months and can't say anything too bad or fight back too hard until that's over.

Also, one last thing -- there is no mystery or conspiracy why the Freeh Report has not been released -- it has not been finished yet. It could take a while. The Penn State one he did, took like six months and included formal interviews with hundreds of people. It's only been 4-5 months, so give the man some time.

Re: Conspiracy Theory
 

The League says a lot of things, but we know they aren't necessarily true.
As of today, I have not heard any allegations, any accusations, any information that points to any alleged bounty on anyone prior to the Vikings game. How did the league know this was happening? Who accused the Saints of putting bounties on players, and on which players, prior to the Vikings game? How did the league warned Benson? How did Benson warned Loomis? If it came from the league, given how lawyer-happy they are, wouldn't the warnings be in writing? Where are the written warnings?

As far as I know, for the information that has been made public, this all started with the Childress allegations of the Saints putting a bounty on Farve. It was later that people threw in the name Kurt Warner in there, and only because the shot he took.

Re: Conspiracy Theory
 

Tobias/SaintsBro - Bounties are systemic. They have been part of the NFL for decades. To say all of this started in the NFC 2010 Championship game is to ignore that coaches/players/owners/Goodell/Rozell/Tagliabue all have known about them for many many years.

Redskins coach George Allen had a bounty on Cowboys QB Roger Staubach, former player says | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com

Its also been known that Williams had bounty programs in Buffalo, and Washington. The league says they were cleared and found no evidence...
Washington Redskins, Buffalo Bills cleared in NFL bounty investigation, report says - ESPN

They mean no evidence except for confessions.
"A former Redskins coach and five players said Friday that the team’s defense under Williams had a system to reward players with cash for hits that knocked opponents from games. Former defensive end Phillip Daniels, now the Redsksins’ director of player development, defended Williams, saying the approach promoted “good, hard football.”
Report: Gregg Williams may have used bounty incentive while coaching NFL's Buffalo Bills, Washington Redskins - NFL News | FOX Sports on MSN

"“Let’s be clear: the reason that the Hogs did that Hogs Night Out poster...was, in the meeting after the game, Joe Gibbs would come in, he’d have a fistful of $100 bills,” Starke said. “And if Dexter knocked the quarterback down three times, he would get three hundred-dollar bills. And Joe would pass the money out in the meeting, and we would have to duck. "
George Starke: Joe Gibbs would hand out 100 dollar bills for hits on QBs - DC Sports Bog - The Washington Post

To say that because "its not on the internet" and no "internet indication" of investigations prior to the public announcement means you believe that the League has been completely honest and forth coming.

The bounty systems have been the publicly unspoken tabu at least since Roger Staubach played. The league needs something to defend them selves with in court so they can cover up covering up the known effects of concussions.

We were a scape goat, the sacrificial lamb.

Unless you can convince me of a reason why "all of a sudden" after over 40 years the NFL felt it was time to stop this I am not going to think other than my OP.

Unless you can convince me of what the Saints did that no one else has done to warrant them being singled out and have a season systematically destroyed.. I will not believe other wise.

With all due respect, saying its not on the internet or the NFL didn't say something is not reason to believe that it didn't happen or wasn't there.

Tobias- You sort of contradict your self here.
"The League says a lot of things, but we know they aren't necessarily true.
As of today, I have not heard any allegations, any accusations, any information that points to any alleged bounty on anyone prior to the Vikings game."

The source that you state is not a trustworthy source is being completely forthcoming? Lets be honest... ALL of the information that is our there was provided in whole or part by the league. They control the flow of information and or disinformation. I would put money on the fact that the league has skeletons in its closet we will NEVER know about. All corporations do.

The League has hand picked one team out of 32 to lay ALL of this on, roasting one team in 2012 for something that has gone on for over 40 years.

Why?

Re: Conspiracy Theory
 

That wasn't how I read it... you may be correct. I am not one to believe that just because its not public knowledge it didn't happen. Long before official investigations happen there are preliminary investigations. Prelims are rarely public knowledge.

I just found something: The investigation WAS going on in Jan 2010, during the 2009 Season.

Page 6 of 7

"14. Prior to the Super Bowl game at the end of the 2009 NFL season (which was played on February 7, 2010) Micky Loomis told me that a Minnesota Vikings player had told the NFL that the Vikings player had heard about a "bounty" that had been placed on Brett Favre by the Saints. I later learned that the NFL was conducting an investigation".
http://media.nola.com/saints_impact/...209%202012.pdf

Re: Conspiracy Theory
 

Tobias/SaintsBro - Bounties are systemic. They have been part of the NFL for decades. To say all of this started in the NFC 2010 Championship game is to ignore that coaches/players/owners/Goodell/Rozell/Tagliabue all have known about them for many many years.

Redskins coach George Allen had a bounty on Cowboys QB Roger Staubach, former player says | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com

Its also been known that Williams had bounty programs in Buffalo, and Washington. The league says they were cleared and found no evidence...
Washington Redskins, Buffalo Bills cleared in NFL bounty investigation, report says - ESPN

They mean no evidence except for confessions.
"A former Redskins coach and five players said Friday that the team’s defense under Williams had a system to reward players with cash for hits that knocked opponents from games. Former defensive end Phillip Daniels, now the Redsksins’ director of player development, defended Williams, saying the approach promoted “good, hard football.”
Report: Gregg Williams may have used bounty incentive while coaching NFL's Buffalo Bills, Washington Redskins - NFL News | FOX Sports on MSN

"“Let’s be clear: the reason that the Hogs did that Hogs Night Out poster...was, in the meeting after the game, Joe Gibbs would come in, he’d have a fistful of $100 bills,” Starke said. “And if Dexter knocked the quarterback down three times, he would get three hundred-dollar bills. And Joe would pass the money out in the meeting, and we would have to duck. "
George Starke: Joe Gibbs would hand out 100 dollar bills for hits on QBs - DC Sports Bog - The Washington Post

To say that because "its not on the internet" and no "internet indication" of investigations prior to the public announcement means you believe that the League has been completely honest and forth coming. Items disappear from the internet all the time. Presently both links I had posted a while back to the official statements from both Williams and Curillo are dead.. gone... no statements to be found... Hell recently the whistleblower title went from Mike Cerullo to Jimmy Kennedy... WTF? There is (was) a legal statement from Cerullo!

NFL says its Mike Cerullo and he should be commended
NFL says Mike Cerullo should be “commended” for coming forward | ProFootballTalk

NFL Says its Jimmy Kennedy
Of whistleblowers and witnesses | ProFootballTalk

Williams Statement is here... Cerullos vanished for some reason
Former New Orleans Saints assistant Mike Cerullo taking center stage in bounty controversy - New Orleans Saints Football NFL News - NOLA.com

The bounty systems have been the publicly unspoken tabu at least since Roger Staubach played. The league needs something to defend them selves with in court so they can cover up covering up the known effects of concussions.

We were a scape goat, the sacrificial lamb.

Unless you can convince me of a reason why "all of a sudden" after over 40 years the NFL felt it was time to stop this I am not going to think other than my OP.

Unless you can convince me of what the Saints did that no one else has done to warrant them being singled out and have a season systematically destroyed.. I will not believe other wise.

With all due respect, saying its not on the internet or the NFL didn't say something is not reason to believe that it didn't happen or wasn't there.

Tobias- You sort of contradict your self here.
"The League says a lot of things, but we know they aren't necessarily true.
As of today, I have not heard any allegations, any accusations, any information that points to any alleged bounty on anyone prior to the Vikings game."

The source that you state is not a trustworthy source is being completely forthcoming? Lets be honest... ALL of the information that is our there was provided in whole or part by the league. They control the flow of information and or disinformation. I would put money on the fact that the league has skeletons in its closet we will NEVER know about. All corporations do.

The League has hand picked one team out of 32 to lay ALL of this on, roasting one team in 2012 for something that has gone on for over 40 years.

Why?

Re: Conspiracy Theory
 

In a weird way this makes Benson's NY visit to goodell make more sense.

He never went to goodell to fuss or raise a ruckus. He went to tell him to keep doing what he's doing and ignore everything he's hearing. Benson was perfectly happy to have roger do these things (suspensions, re-suspensions) because it doesn't hurt the Saints bottom line, in fact it probably helps it by more people buying Saints merch to "support the team through these tough times" and by more people paying attention while this is all over the news (no press is bad press). It also helps Benson because it helps the NFL build some kind of BS case showing how they were taking action for player safety. Benson doesn't care if these guys get suspended, because at the end of the day he's not making one cent less, and he's still got the meat shield that is goodell to take the flack and arm the NFL's lawyers for the upcoming court battle.

Can't believe I didn't see it this way until now...

Re: Conspiracy Theory
 

Here is a Q for ya Shoe....

Why has there only been 1 trip? I would have made a dozen by now. I would have been in Goodell's office when MY players spoke and gave testimony. I would have been there when MY players and coaches appealed.

I may have not said peep... But MY arse would have been there, to at least support.

Re: Conspiracy Theory
 

Wot he said :cool:

Re: Conspiracy Theory
 

Well the part of the theory that loses me is saying that (a) the bounty investigation of the SAINTS started in 2009, sometime BEFORE the Vikings game, because it just plain didn't; and (b) the idea that Benson is some how into it, or behind it. I jump off the train before you guys go into that particular tunnel.

Yeah, I think Benson might be "sittin' on the fence" a little bit, as far as the concussion lawsuits go, but it's not like he was in some smoke-filled room with Goodell, cooking this whole thing up. I don't care how rich you are, you do not cough up a half million dollar fine and feel good about it. You do not unilaterally volunteer to "take one for the team" with that kind of money and ESPECIALLY if the results in court from these lawsuits are not guaranteed.

Benson was blindsided by all this, and he was royally pissed.

The people who want Benson to fight this thing MORE than he has, or who think his "silence" means he's complicit in it or is in favor of it.... why is there always this mad scramble to throw people under the bus on this Bounty thing, to make them a part of it. People were saying Shockey was the snitch, people were saying it all must be true because Payton didn't fight it and wasn't saying anything, that Fujita was the snitch because he left us for the Browns, stuff like that. Not you in particular, just in general.

I say Benson IS fighting it. I know everybody wants Benson to kick and scream, cuss, raise a stink, put on a show, but it's not like that. That's not how these things work. If you have a meeting, and Goodell basically puts out his palm and says "talk to the hand, I'm not listening" then there is no point in having other future meetings with him to plead your case. You have to work AROUND. You have to work behind. Over. Under.

626, Benson DID sit there in the room during meetings when his coaches appealed, in support, and stand by them. Back in March. In New York. Definitely with Payton and I think also with Loomis. He has had MORE THAN ONE meeting with Goodell on this topic.

Benson WAS there, with Payton at the appeal.
Tom Benson, Sean Payton spent the weekend in New York | ProFootballTalk

And he "promoted" Loomis temporarily to the Hornets, and the PR statement from that hire was like a giant FU to Goodell, talking about Loomis' skill and integrity and knowledge and stuff like that. Goodell takes Loomis' job away, Benson turns right around and gives him another one. A giant Eff You Roger.

Plus Benson is very hamstrung, in that he is hosting a Super Bowl in a couple of months. He CANNOT rock the boat right now, or start a big brouhaha, in the league, with that coming up. He just can't.

As far as Benson vs. Goodell goes....With these kinds of things, you need leverage. It's like a Night of The Long Knives type deal -- you want to be stealthy, you want to be ninja, and you DON'T pull the blade out until you have all your ducks in a row and you KNOW you've got the clean shot -- if I'm Tom Benson right now, I don't even give off a WHIFF of attacking Goodell, or being down on him, against him, unless you KNOW you have the votes from the other owners and you KNOW you have it in the bag if you get them all in a room and call a vote to sack him. It takes time. But that's how it works.

I know people also like to say, "Goodell works for the owners, and that's Benson, so why doesn't he fire Goodell" and all that, but it's really not that simple. Goodell is in fact there to sort of police or regulate the owners, they consent to it. If you get arrested by a cop, you can't just say to the cop, "Well, I am a taxpayer, I pay your salary, so you have to let me go!" It just doesn't work like that. It's more complicated.

Concussions, absolutely yes. Benson, deeply involved, probably not. That's how I see it.

Re: Conspiracy Theory
 

This sounds a lot like my conspiracy theory! Was it me? If not, you have two people who are wont to agree. Don't forget the part about the season being more profitable if the Saints actually miss the Super Bowl

Re: Conspiracy Theory
 

Oh, I agree. I explained myself poorly. I meant to say is that I don't believe there are any allegations or any accusations of bounties against the Saints in 2009-10 prior to the NFCCG.

I'm pretty sure they were bounties (and real ones) on guys like Thorpe or Grange.

Re: Conspiracy Theory
 

Great question, the first answer that comes to mind is that its not Benson's fight. He's got goodell and Vilma's lawyers to do that for him on each side of this thing, and he doesn't need to be there to "defend" his players when he really would be doing nothing of the sort.

Tom Benson likely gives two sh*ts about this whole thing. I'm sure Him hiring Louis Freeh to come in was a publicity stunt, nothing more. And it looks as though Freeh found out that there was something rotten in Denmark because there has been NOTHING said about that investigation. If Freeh found out there was nothing going on, Benson definitely would have said something, because down the line when the huge court case inevitably happens, some judge finding out that the league persecuted the Saints with literally nothing to stand on would be devastating for the NFL in court.

In other words, Benson is trying to placate the fans/incite the media by hiring this high profile investigator to come in and tell him something he already knows, then Benson goes to NY, which on the surface appears to look like he is going to contest this ruling, but in reality he is just telling roger to hold the line, keep doing what you're doing, and build us a case against all these ex-players that are going to bleed the league dry if they win their court case.


tl:dr - Benson is in on this thing too. Its his ass in a sling if the ex-players win that case, and a future judgement that rules for the ex-players will hurt him (read: his checkbook) a lot more than this one season without a coach and some players. I mean really, if you're Tom Benson, how does this whole thing bounty-debacle hurt your bottom line?

Answer? It doesn't. In fact, it saves him money. No Loomis, Payton, or Vitt salary to pay out, and that'll add up quick. And let's be honest- Tom Benson didn't buy a football team to win Superbowls, he bought it to make money, the SBs are just a means to an end


THAT'S a conspiracy theory lol

Re: Conspiracy Theory
 

A lot of people forget that Benson was and still is a scoundrel. Amazing how one SB can put a nice coat of paint on the surface. It's not beyond him to hire Freech as a front anymore than when he benched players on purpose so they would not hit financial earmarks in their contracts or him trying to move the team immediately after Katrina. The only thing he is concerned about is his cut of the loot.

Re: Conspiracy Theory
 

You don't hire Louis Freeh as a "publicity stunt" or a "front." You just don't. You hire Louis Freeh when you are an institution and your **** is ****ed up, you're embarrassed by it, and you need an outside investigator to find out what went wrong and get it sorted out. He investigated Waco and exposed how badly Janet Reno effed up. He caught the Unabomber. He roasted sacred cow Joe Paterno and clobbered Penn State after they hired and paid him to look into it. So this guy doesn't mess around or play patty cake or do "PR." He also runs about a million dollars' fee to conduct an investigation and institutional review like this; if Benson was such a cheapskate like you say he is, and wanted a distraction report "for show" he would SURELY hire somebody A LOT cheaper and less thorough than Freeh.

Also, one more time, please read this -- THERE IS NO MYSTERY OR CONSPIRACY WHY THE FREEH RERORT HAS NOT BEEN RELEASED -- it has most likely not been finished yet. It could take a while. The Penn State one he did, took like six months and included formal interviews with hundreds of people. Freeh finished up Penn State around JULY and started in on the Saints next, and he has to investigate the wiretapping, Bountygate and more. It's not even been 4 months, really, so give the man some time.

Something from it will come to light. We may not get to see all of it, it may be for Benson's eyes only, but it will exist. There may be a bombshell or two from it yet to come. Ya'll will see.

Re: Conspiracy Theory
 

Benson is a car salesman. I honestly do not know one car sales man that actually cares about whats going on with the car beyond the coating or Armor All, and Engine wash.

Freeh = Armor All and detail job. Its a show.

The date the investigations started... if this stemmed from a congressional hearing... all MOOT. The League/Shield/et al needed something to fight in court with when the concussions cases his the stand and the Saints were served up on a silver platter.

You can jump before the tunnel... It doesnt change a thing.
"At the Saints-Falcons game on October 16, the second of two warm receptions of the Saints by the San Antonio community, mayor Phil Hardberger stated that Benson had agreed to schedule negotiations for permanent relocation once the 2005 season is over. In reference to Benson, Hardberger said, "I'm pretty comfortable in saying he wants to be here."[2] On Monday, October 17, Benson dismissed executive vice president Arnie Fielkow, who had been a public advocate of the Saints' importance to the state of Louisiana, and who had advocated the playing of home games in Baton Rouge. According to Fielkow, Benson told him that if he'd tender his resignation and sign a confidentiality agreement, he'd be paid the remainder of his contract; when he refused, he was fired outright.[3]"

You are giving him credit for a hell of a lot more integrity than he has.
Tom Benson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Benson showed for the coaches... Bailed on the players when the players HAD NO COACH THAT COULD SHOW FOR THEM.

Re: Conspiracy Theory
 

This:
New Orleans Saints fan files class action lawsuit against NFL, Roger Goodell - New Orleans Saints Football NFL News - NOLA.com

No Board of Directors would EVER let a CEO damage the product to punish an employee..

Unless!