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A statistical look at Saints running backs Chris Ivory and Mark Ingram to try and determine once and for all which one is actually better.

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by Danno Yep, nothing like looking at stats to determine something once and for all. How about considering... He fumbled all thru training camp and continues to fumble during practice. Ivory has not run behind this O-line yet. ...

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Old 10-14-2012, 09:28 PM   #11
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Re: A statistical look at Saints running backs Chris Ivory and Mark Ingram to try and determine once and for all which one is actually better.

Originally Posted by Danno View Post
Yep, nothing like looking at stats to determine something once and for all.
How about considering...

He fumbled all thru training camp and continues to fumble during practice.

Ivory has not run behind this O-line yet.
Ivory is not good in pass protection.
Ivory is fragile.
Ivory has not run in a game coached by these guys yet.


Here's the stat that should tell you once and for all who the better running back is...

2012 carries...
Ingram - 37 carries
Ivory - ZERO

And I'm a huge Chris Ivory fan. I wouldn't mind playing Ivory just to shake things up a bit, but this article is poorly supported.
Mark ingram is just as fragile and I dont see him pass protect
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Old 10-14-2012, 09:40 PM   #12
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Re: A statistical look at Saints running backs Chris Ivory and Mark Ingram to try and determine once and for all which one is actually better.

I dont see Ingram doing much anything.

He dont block, he dont catch passes, he cant run worth a damn.

Ivory is nearly the same but can at least run between the tackles and not fall down after first contact.

Basically we get more out of undrafted FAs than a 1st round pick.

Ill be honest I think we better off sticking with PT most of the time anyway and start taking a long hard look at Cadet and Ivory and put to rest the Ingram experiment. Hell even let Sproles run it a couple times.
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Old 10-14-2012, 11:13 PM   #13
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Re: A statistical look at Saints running backs Chris Ivory and Mark Ingram to try and determine once and for all which one is actually better.

Longest thread title in the history of thread titles. LOL
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Old 10-15-2012, 07:10 AM   #14
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Re: A statistical look at Saints running backs Chris Ivory and Mark Ingram to try and determine once and for all which one is actually better.

Daro did a piss-poor job of presenting this.

Comparing LAST YEARS Ivory to This years Ingram is apples to oranges.
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Old 10-15-2012, 07:44 AM   #15
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Re: A statistical look at Saints running backs Chris Ivory and Mark Ingram to try and determine once and for all which one is actually better.

Things will start to change with Ingram. We're starting to use him more on passing downs which will make defenses drop the safety back in coverage instead of 8 men in the box. Nobody can run effectively with 8 men in the box. And every report I hear this year coming out of practices is that Ivory is fumbling too much during practice, if he can't hold on to the ball in practice he damn sure can't be trusted during a game.
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Old 10-15-2012, 08:04 AM   #16
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Re: A statistical look at Saints running backs Chris Ivory and Mark Ingram to try and determine once and for all which one is actually better.

Originally Posted by Budsdrinker View Post
Things will start to change with Ingram. We're starting to use him more on passing downs which will make defenses drop the safety back in coverage instead of 8 men in the box. Nobody can run effectively with 8 men in the box. And every report I hear this year coming out of practices is that Ivory is fumbling too much during practice, if he can't hold on to the ball in practice he damn sure can't be trusted during a game.
Well if that much emphasis is being put on practice... I have to ask...

Why cant that same defense cause that many fumbles in the game?

Last edited by TheOak; 10-15-2012 at 11:06 AM..
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Old 10-15-2012, 09:21 AM   #17
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Re: A statistical look at Saints running backs Chris Ivory and Mark Ingram to try and determine once and for all which one is actually better.

Originally Posted by x626xBlack View Post
Well if that much emphasis is being put on practice... I have to ask...

Why can that same defense cause that many fumbles in the game?
Because it's only one person fumbling, Ivory.
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Old 10-15-2012, 10:09 AM   #18
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Re: A statistical look at Saints running backs Chris Ivory and Mark Ingram to try and determine once and for all which one is actually better.

Ivory's thing is that he runs like a Tasmanian Devil, which is awesome, but he fumbles the ball because he runs so crazy -- because he extends the ball out, he extends his arm when he's kind of swirling or thrashing around, and spinning like a wild man, plowing into people. Or sometimes he will make contact and lunge wildly for more yards, by thrashing around, kicking his legs, etc., and someone that he can't see, or doesn't know is there, strips it out from behind.

He also does that thing where as he's falling down, he holds out his arm -- he sometimes tries to shield his fall with the hand that has the ball in it, holding it out, so the ball pops out on the ground or comes loose as he's falling. Now of course that's human nature, instinct -- I sure as heck would do the same thing if I was falling forward with a football in my hand. But the point is, he is a running back, you don't let that happen.

He is also fumbling in part because he is being picked on, people know how to make him do it (ie when he does that thrashing around after contact thing), which is not endearing him to the coaches. WHEN he fumbles, it almost always the classic textbook, the first guy stands him up, the other guy strips the ball.

Every player fumbles. But there are certain types of fumbles where a coach is like, "okay, whatever, we'll get 'em next time." For example, Pierre Thomas fumbled near the goal line against the 49ers, but he was practically if not literally knocked out on the play. Pierre also fumbled against the Falcons in '10, and it was basically because THEY BROKE HIS ANKLE on the play. So there is a bit of a reason or explanation for "Pierre" types of fumbles.

Ivory's fumbles don't have that "explanation" or excuse to them, they just happen wildly and often at very bad parts of the game.

Go look at Ivory's "highlights" on Youtube, and notice how many times, at the end of the play, either the ground causes a fumble at the very end, or he is tackled and the ball comes sputtering out immediately as he hits the ground (not a fumble, but he lets go of it too soon). This is just bad ball handling and I'm serious, go look at his highlights -- even his good plays are often dangerously close to being bad plays.
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Old 10-15-2012, 11:58 PM   #19
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Re: A statistical look at Saints running backs Chris Ivory and Mark Ingram to try and determine once and for all which one is actually better.

If you guys don't want Ivory, once again, send him to the Falcons.
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Old 10-15-2012, 11:59 PM   #20
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Re: A statistical look at Saints running backs Chris Ivory and Mark Ingram to try and determine once and for all which one is actually better.

Originally Posted by Radical View Post
If you guys don't want Ivory, once again, send him to the Falcons.
Keep dreamin'
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