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cmsaint 10-15-2012 11:29 AM

New Member, Loomis/Vitt communication w Payton
 
Hello fellow Who Dats.

Nice to be a member of the forum. I used to post on the nola.com forums frequently under this same screen name. Dating back to the early Haslett days. Not sure why they removed that format, I always had a lot of fun in there.

Anyways, are there any restrictions on communication between Loomis/Vitt with Payton while theyre suspended from the team?

Even if they arent allowed too, Im sure they have. I would hope that Vitt will have some nice tweeks he could make based on Payton's recommendations. Then Loomis should be able to make final tweeks when he comes back.

What say you?

TheOak 10-15-2012 11:35 AM

Re: New Member, Loomis/Vitt communication w Payton
 
Welcome to B&G cmsaint. As far as I know they are allowed no communication with the league or its personnel. Suspended coaches are still employees of the league, so they are not allowed to communicate with each other.

If you noticed they were separated for the game against the Chargers.. At least thats how I remember it.

cmsaint 10-15-2012 12:23 PM

Re: New Member, Loomis/Vitt communication w Payton
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by x626xBlack (Post 449283)
Welcome to B&G cmsaint. As far as I know they are allowed no communication with the league or its personnel. Suspended coaches are still employees of the league, so they are not allowed to communicate with each other.

If you noticed they were separated for the game against the Chargers.. At least thats how I remember it.

Gotcha. I do remember them being seperated the last game. I assumed that was per league instruction.

It still seems feasable to me that they would be communicating while suspended. But I do recall the stipulation of no communication with the team regarding Payton. But I also recall it for Vitt/Loomis while they were suspended, so maybe there was a loophole with communication with Payton since all three were forbidden contact with the team while serving suspension.

Wishful thinking I guess.

Halo 10-15-2012 12:24 PM

Re: New Member, Loomis/Vitt communication w Payton
 
That's a good question, and welcome aboard!

Will have to dig further, but I agree with Black's post.
The NFL and "Lord Goodell" have made it their position to hand down suspensions and also control conditions of return. Those conditions have been draconian and designed to stop coaches and administrators from guiding the team from a puppet master position (much like the owners puppet Goodell!).

TheOak 10-15-2012 01:36 PM

Re: New Member, Loomis/Vitt communication w Payton
 
Considering all of the suspensions have to be "lifted"... And I am just certain that there are fans of 31 other teams that would just adore being to say something was violated... I do not see them trying to communicate. telecommunications and internet could trace anything back and forth.

However if Payton had a stripper send Vitt a cookie cake with the weeks game plan spelled out in icing they might be able to get away with it.

cmsaint 10-15-2012 01:51 PM

Re: New Member, Loomis/Vitt communication w Payton
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by x626xBlack (Post 449323)
Considering all of the suspensions have to be "lifted"... And I am just certain that there are fans of 31 other teams that would just adore being to say something was violated... I do not see them trying to communicate. telecommunications and internet could trace anything back and forth.

However if Payton had a stripper send Vitt a cookie cake with the weeks game plan spelled out in icing they might be able to get away with it.

Lol I think they should open up these lines of comminication

SaintsBro 10-15-2012 01:53 PM

Re: New Member, Loomis/Vitt communication w Payton
 
My own take on it is that Payton does not have any communication with the team... here's why. Because in spite of the media's intent to paint him as "arrogant" or "cocky" or "guilty," there is plenty of evidence to show that Sean Payton actually does have a lot of character and personal integrity, as a person, as a man, a father, a leader, etc. Meaning if Sean Payton says he's going to do something, or if he's told to do something, he does it, and will keep his promise -- his word means something. That stuff is important to him, as it is to any good leader. Unlike say, Goodell, who flip-flops and twists in the wind whichever way is favorable to him.

Think about the way that Payton took responsibility for "what happened" but never admitted to lying or being guilty of any of the allegations that Goodell said he had done...because Payton knows what he did and didn't do. He knows it's a sham punishment. But his own personal INTEGRITY -- "yes, it happened on my watch, and I am ultimately responsible" -- is obviously very important to him.

It could be potentially CATASTROPHIC if Payton was communicating with the team, and it was somehow discovered. It would blow the whole thing out the water-- anything else the Saints or Loomis or Payton were ever accused of, the Bounty stuff, the wiretapping, the crime of being "arrogant" or "above the law," all of it -- it would all suddenly become TRUE, or make him "guilty," in the eyes of the world, because Payton's integrity and credibility would be damaged beyond repair.

Whereas right now, he and all the other Saints coaches and players in this are basically being punished, but maintaining their innocence, and smart people out there know that Payton is getting a raw deal from Goodell. Sneaking around behind Goodell's back would mess up that position of moral high ground against shifty, beady eyed Goodell. Because people who are innocent and railroaded, they take it with honor -- they don't sneak around behind people's backs, trying to get one over on the teacher. The kids who are actually guilty of something, always do that.


The same cannot be said for GREGG WILLIAMS -- I wouldn't trust THAT guy as far as I could throw him (not far at all) and I have a feeling that he is secretly communicating with the Rams and with Fischer through his son Blake, who is still coaching for the Rams right now. I just don't trust that guy. In fact, I think he and Fischer and Blake were cooking something up while Williams was still with the Saints, during the playoffs, communicating through back channels or acquaintances, even though they are supposed to get permission from the league to approach coaches on other teams about hiring them. It was all rather fishy, how fast that whole thing came together after the Niners loss. I mean they are all buddies, and Jeff Fischer could call Gregg Williams' WIFE and talk to her, on Gregg's cell phone, and technically not be in violation of the league rules.

TheOak 10-15-2012 02:01 PM

Re: New Member, Loomis/Vitt communication w Payton
 
A lot of people that say "he had to know and condone" bounty gate.. because he was the head coach do not understand that sometimes a person of intelligence will protect others.

KNOWING a head coach is OBLIGATED to do something about certain things means he doesn't need to know. If you get caught he maintains plausible deniability.

Its why cabinet members and middle management get burned for antics and a President or CEO walks away scott free.

cmsaint 10-15-2012 02:14 PM

Re: New Member, Loomis/Vitt communication w Payton
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SaintsBro (Post 449331)
My own take on it is that Payton does not have any communication with the team... here's why. Because in spite of the media's intent to paint him as "arrogant" or "cocky" or "guilty," there is plenty of evidence to show that Sean Payton actually does have a lot of character and personal integrity, as a person, as a man, a father, a leader, etc. Meaning if Sean Payton says he's going to do something, or if he's told to do something, he does it, and will keep his promise -- his word means something. That stuff is important to him, as it is to any good leader. Unlike say, Goodell, who flip-flops and twists in the wind whichever way is favorable to him.

Think about the way that Payton took responsibility for "what happened" but never admitted to lying or being guilty of any of the allegations that Goodell said he had done...because Payton knows what he did and didn't do. He knows it's a sham punishment. But his own personal INTEGRITY -- "yes, it happened on my watch, and I am ultimately responsible" -- is obviously very important to him.

It could be potentially CATASTROPHIC if Payton was communicating with the team, and it was somehow discovered. It would blow the whole thing out the water-- anything else the Saints or Loomis or Payton were ever accused of, the Bounty stuff, the wiretapping, the crime of being "arrogant" or "above the law," all of it -- it would all suddenly become TRUE, or make him "guilty," in the eyes of the world, because Payton's integrity and credibility would be damaged beyond repair.

Whereas right now, he and all the other Saints coaches and players in this are basically being punished, but maintaining their innocence, and smart people out there know that Payton is getting a raw deal from Goodell. Sneaking around behind Goodell's back would mess up that position of moral high ground against shifty, beady eyed Goodell. Because people who are innocent and railroaded, they take it with honor -- they don't sneak around behind people's backs, trying to get one over on the teacher. The kids who are actually guilty of something, always do that.


The same cannot be said for GREGG WILLIAMS -- I wouldn't trust THAT guy as far as I could throw him (not far at all) and I have a feeling that he is secretly communicating with the Rams and with Fischer through his son Blake, who is still coaching for the Rams right now. I just don't trust that guy. In fact, I think he and Fischer and Blake were cooking something up while Williams was still with the Saints, during the playoffs, communicating through back channels or acquaintances, even though they are supposed to get permission from the league to approach coaches on other teams about hiring them. It was all rather fishy, how fast that whole thing came together after the Niners loss. I mean they are all buddies, and Jeff Fischer could call Gregg Williams' WIFE and talk to her, on Gregg's cell phone, and technically not be in violation of the league rules.

Good post. Im inclined to beleive this. But I wonder how his personal life effects how others view this perspective due to his divorce etc. Just curious.

Quote:

Originally Posted by x626xBlack (Post 449335)
A lot of people that say "he had to know and condone" bounty gate.. because he was the head coach do not understand that sometimes a person of intelligence will protect others.

KNOWING a head coach is OBLIGATED to do something about certain things means he doesn't need to know. If you get caught he maintains plausible deniability.

Its why cabinet members and middle management get burned for antics and a President or CEO walks away scott free.

Good point.

RailBoss 10-15-2012 05:08 PM

Re: New Member, Loomis/Vitt communication w Payton
 
You mean the rumor of SP seen in Seven Eleven buying throw away cell phones
is all a lie.


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