So the Vikings defense was ranked #9 entering Thursday night's game...
 

Let's see... the 9th ranked Vikings defense playing at home, vs the worst defense ever in the history of mankind, the Saints defense, playing on the road, both playing the very same Bucs team:

Vikings D allows 36 points. Saints D allows 28
Vikings D allows 17 points in the second half. Saints D allows 7
Vikings D allows 163 yards rushing. Saints D allows 102.
Vikings D allows D Martin to run for 135 yds on. Saints D allows D Martin to run for 85.
Vikings D sacks Freeman once. Saints D sacks Freeman twice.

edit to add:
Vikings D is now on the 6th year of playing in their current D system. Saints just played their 6th game in Spags' system.
Vikings D has had all of its coaches for the entire year. The Saints were missing and important coach in Vitt.



Discuss...

Re: So the Vikings defense was ranked #9 entering tonight's game...
 

Agreed wholeheartedly, however, the equation you are attempting to form doesn't equate.

We should roll over the Vikings, but something about that Kryptonite dome of theirs saps us every time.

We win again by three or less.

Alaska

Re: So the Vikings defense was ranked #9 entering tonight's game...
 

They didn't do to well tonight.

Re: So the Vikings defense was ranked #9 entering tonight's game...
 

Actually, and please correct me if I'm wrong tobias, I think what he's suggesting is that perhaps our defense didn't do as poorly against the bucs as it would seem.

Re: So the Vikings defense was ranked #9 entering tonight's game...
 

Nice try. Our defense is still turrble. Just turrble...

Re: So the Vikings defense was ranked #9 entering tonight's game...
 

the worst part about it is Tampa played on a short week ON THE ROAD.

You think that would favor the Vikings.


We sacked Freeman? I dont recall in the game we did unless it was that Goal Line stand on 4th down.

Re: So the Vikings defense was ranked #9 entering tonight's game...
 

Galette sacked freeman on a 2nd and 10, Cameron Jordan sacked freeman on 4th and goal and caused the fumble

Re: So the Vikings defense was ranked #9 entering tonight's game...
 

Rankings are a loaded gun... The difference between the number 1 ranked D in yds allowed vs the number 10 ranked D can be less than 40 yds a game... I don't care about rankings... Its all about matchups. Period.

Re: So the Vikings defense was ranked #9 entering tonight's game...
 

Maybe things are looking up for us defensively, even though it doesn't really feel that way.

Re: So the Vikings defense was ranked #9 entering tonight's game...
 

Teams match up differently against each other. In my opinion you can comparing the "who beat who" method means very little.
I'm not ready to say our defense is underrated... but they aren't hot garabge like they were in week 1 and 2.
Defense is getting better and giving our offense a chance to win.

Just my 2 cents

Re: So the Vikings defense was ranked #9 entering tonight's game...
 

Vikings D is under performing. They allowed the Arizona to run all over them just the week before. There Offense has been figured out. Stop AP and blanket Harvin and Ponder is lost.

Re: So the Vikings defense was ranked #9 entering tonight's game...
 

Here's what you forgot:

Vikes gave up 292 passing yards.

Saints - 411.

Our back end is as obvious as Kim Kardashian's. :awe:

Re: So the Vikings defense was ranked #9 entering tonight's game...
 

When did Roman Harper sign with the Vikes? /sarcasm.

Re: So the Vikings defense was ranked #9 entering tonight's game...
 

I really don't care about the yards we give up to be honest with you. Not saying we're going to get as far as they did last year. But I recall the Pats being on pace to break records in yards given up during games but they won because they kept points OFF the board and got turnovers. We may not be getting as many turnovers...but we've been holdig teams at bay to give our offense a chance...especially in the 2nd half of games. I can live with that if we win....thats just me though...

Re: So the Vikings defense was ranked #9 entering tonight's game...
 

When total yardage decides games I'll be worried. last i noticed it was total points.

Re: So the Vikings defense was ranked #9 entering tonight's game...
 

One leads to the other. And after all that talk about our defense giving up less each game, they gave up more.

And with two Mannings and Atl on the horizon, if you're not worried then you should be.

Re: So the Vikings defense was ranked #9 entering tonight's game...
 

I didn't forget. I omitted that part, and I did so, because the Bucs weren't forced to pass the ball to catch up like they did against the Saints. And, 95 of those 411 yards came on 1 play. If you look at total yards, Vikes at home allowed 416, vs the Saints on the road allowing 513. You take that one 95 yard play away, and you have 418.

Also, the Vikings defense are on the 3rd year of playing in their defensive system. The Saints just played on their 6th game under a new system.

Also, Minnesota has had all of its coaches all year.

Hmm. these last 2, I just thought about.. I am going to add them to my original post.

Re: So the Vikings defense was ranked #9 entering tonight's game...
 

Doesn't change the fact that the pass D is bad. Click the link and sort it however you like - over 65% completions, total points, yards per game...

It's a bad defense right now.

2012 NFL Team Passing Stats - National Football League - ESPN

Re: So the Vikings defense was ranked #9 entering tonight's game...
 

Vikings D is now on the 6th year of playing in their current D system. Saints just played their 6th game in Spags' system.
Vikings D has had all of its coaches for the entire year. The Saints were missing and important coach in Vitt.

Re: So the Vikings defense was ranked #9 entering tonight's game...
 

= Vikings bad week is slightly better than our good week.

Re: So the Vikings defense was ranked #9 entering tonight's game...
 

The Saints defense has been bad for years. GW had one good season.

I agree that this year has been exceptional in terms of setbacks and I believe Spags will ultimately field a top 10 defense.

Re: So the Vikings defense was ranked #9 entering tonight's game...
 

Not if fans have any input. People here were calling for him to be fired after week 2!

Re: So the Vikings defense was ranked #9 entering tonight's game...
 

Well it's a good thing fans don't then, isn't it.

Probably the same crew who called for Brees to be traded.

Re: So the Vikings defense was ranked #9 entering tonight's game...
 

Honestly I can only recall 1 person who asked for Drew to be traded and they're forever reflected in my signature.

Re: So the Vikings defense was ranked #9 entering tonight's game...
 

Tampa is better Offense than one would think. They dropped 34 on the Gmen's D in week 2. It was a shootout that Eli and Co. won on the last drive. I fear they will become a big pain in our a$$ under Schiano. They were a pain before, but next year they will contend. Their D is very aggressive, and have a knack for disrupting plays in the backfield. There were a few plays last night that Ponder looked like he was hit by a torpedo.

Re: So the Vikings defense was ranked #9 entering tonight's game...
 

Thus far this season, Spags is looking like the :dunce: dummy here.

Totally inept at times.

Alaska

Re: So the Vikings defense was ranked #9 entering tonight's game...
 

Without a draft pick before the third round it was difficult to field a team Spags' first year. He is coaching an untalented group.

Re: So the Vikings defense was ranked #9 entering tonight's game...
 

Thanks ViQueens i needed you guys last night. Tampon Bay you lost to Tampon Bay. U Ain't right

Re: So the Vikings defense was ranked #9 entering tonight's game...
 

What's worse is they didn't just lose, they got STOMPED

I guess the Sucs were pissed lol

Re: So the Vikings defense was ranked #9 entering tonight's game...
 

GW? No, it was first and foremost Darren Sharper. Made the secondary look better than it was. The defensive line was Grant, Smith, Adoyle, McCray, Charleston, Ellis and Hargrove. Who's left? Yeah, Smith and Ellis. End of story.

Re: So the Vikings defense was ranked #9 entering tonight's game...
 

The only thing about this game that mattered to me was that Martin and Peterson , collectively scored 50 points for me this week. :)

Re: So the Vikings defense was ranked #9 entering tonight's game...
 

Well that and some of the top defenses in the league is actually only ranked at the top because of their division. (Pittsburgh and Baltimore) is 2 teams that come to mind that when they face a good offense, they give up tons of points.

Re: So the Vikings defense was ranked #9 entering tonight's game...
 

And scoring. Our best defensive series all year gave up 96 yards.

Re: So the Vikings defense was ranked #9 entering tonight's game...
 

You can't make a direct comparison based on that performance, because the Vikes' defense actually had a good game even though the numbers might suggest otherwise.

The problem the Vikes' defense had was that their offense was complete crap the whole game through, which forced the Vikes' defense to be on the field way too much and for way too many snaps. The offense gave up the ball twice - well thrice, but the last INT was in the dying moments - both of which times it led to the Bucs having a short field on their offensive turn. The Vikes' defense did a good job forcing the Bucs to take some field goals, because they had some great starting field positions all game through thanks to Kluwe's horrible day at punting the ball. Also, they made some great halftime adjustments in defending the run. Martin (RB) was pretty much shut down in the second half after having had a stellar first half at running the ball and Blount didn't make an impact on his snaps either, although Martin did score a TD on that screen pass in the beginning of the second half.

Normally, the Vikes' defensive players tackle really well, but for some reason they were missing a lot of tackles against the Bucs, maybe the large amount of snaps they took had something to do with this, but in all honesty they were whiffing on tackles from the get go. Also, their secondary probably had the worst game they've had this season. After Cook hurt his arm and Jefferson replaced him, the Bucs took advantage of the mid-season acquisition and made some big pass plays on the left side of the field.

So the real difference between the Saints playing the Bucs and the Vikes playing them was that one of the teams had an actual offense that was taking some pressure of the defense and the other didn't.


Also, just to clear up one thing... the Vikes have a new defensive coordinator this year, and there have been some scheme changes because of it - most of them positive, but they are not on the 6th year of the same scheme.

Re: So the Vikings defense was ranked #9 entering tonight's game...
 

I hear what you are saying but Larod Stevens had 100+ on them, the Martin gets 100+ on them. Maybe they are not as good as originally thought.

Re: So the Vikings defense was ranked #9 entering tonight's game...
 

They've had some problems with gap control which has lead to some problems with the running defense, but that much can be expected when their MLB didn't play last season nor would've been their starting MLB even if he could've played and the other OLB is only on his second year - Greenway though is a stud, but even he missed some tackles against the Bucs.

I don't know how this year's Vikes' defense is evaluated to or expected to perform, but I can personally say that they look much better than they did last year even if Allen almost broke the sack record. It's mostly because of the secondary and the improvements they've made in that sector. They got rid of their safeties from last year and replaced them with Raymond (who was playing really well before he got injured), Samford, and the rookie Harrison Smith, who has been absolutely lights out for a rookie. Also, Cook had been playing really well after being essentially out of football for a year because of his legal problems last season. Winfield has been really good also, and he said that his new training schedule has allowed him to have a fresher body on Sunday which has translated into even more bone-crushing hits.

Honestly, they are a much better defense than what the Saints have, but their offense cannot even be compared to the Brees led powerhouse the Saints have - and that's mainly because a young QB like Ponder would need more weapons than just AP and Harvin in order to be more successful.

Re: So the Vikings defense was ranked #9 entering tonight's game...
 

Believe me..I wasn't implying that our defense was better. It don't get much worse than what we have going on.

Re: So the Vikings defense was ranked #9 entering tonight's game...
 

.. so, someone scores 38 on them, allow 160+ yards rushing, and they played well. Ok.

Yeah, like the Saints offense is Carmichael's, right? The system they are using is L. Frazier's system.

Re: So the Vikings defense was ranked #9 entering tonight's game...
 

Did you watch the game? The points allowed do not reflect how the defense played as an unit in this game. They were forced to play too many snaps, given a short field to protect on numerous occasions, and were exploited by injury subs.

Would you say that the Bucs defense played well? They only allowed 17 points, so I guess they played pretty well? Of course, they did allow AP to run for 128 yards with only 15 carries while Martin ran for 135 yards with 29 carries... and that was against a Bucs' defense that averaged something like 75 allowed rushing yards per game if I remember correctly (I could be wrong, but I remember it being something like that before the Saints played them).

The difference was that the Vikes didn't have a passing offense to speak of, and that offense had a number of 3 and outs when the defense had just given the team another chance to comeback with a good defensive series. So, it's all argumentative when we are only looking at the stats, but my subjective view of the game was that while the Vikes' defense didn't have their best game of the season - they were far from being bad or the reason why the Vikes lost that game.




The Vikes have a new defensive coordinator and a new defensive line coach, so I do think that's a considerable turn over from last year, especially when people largely consider the Vikes' D front 4 to be their major strength.

Naturally, they haven't blown up the system they had in place, because that would've been crazy as the defense wasn't bad to begin with. Alan Williams (the new DC) worked with Frazier in Indianapolis in 2005-6 with the defensive secondary, so it would only be logical that they have similar tendencies to begin with if they were able to work together and were willing to do it once again. But he began his NFL coaching career in Tampa under Dungy, so you can pretty much trace his pedigree back to Tampa 2. And that is a major difference between the defensive philosophies between Frazier - who developed his secondary coaching skills in Philadelphia, Cincinnati and later in Indianapolis under Dungy - and Williams. But there is another significant difference in that Williams is now the defensive play-caller and not Frazier, and he definitely has his own playbook to call those plays from and his own tendencies when it comes to different situations.

As someone who has followed the Vikes for number of years, never even missing a single preseason game - I can tell you that I've seen a number changes implemented this year that are a deviation from what Frazier has been doing the last couple of years, but that is naturally my own subjective view which I admit is not 100% scientific in nature.

So to answer your statement... no, I do not think they are running Frazier's system, at least in the sense that Frazier's system wasn't really completely his to begin with as he himself built on what was already in place when he came to Minnesota. But I do admit that the changes are not as big as with the Saints' defense moving from GW's scheme to Spags' - I was just not agreeing with your statement that the Vikes are on their 6th year with the current system, because that statement is false as I have tried to explain. But, ultimately, I guess that as well depends on the definition we give to the term "defensive system."

Re: So the Vikings defense was ranked #9 entering tonight's game...
 

So again, let me get this straight: a defense allows 38 points, get run over, but it doesn't reflect how the defense played. OK.

I watched the game. They got manhandled from the get-go.