Whose job is it to scout D personnel?
 

Whose job is it in the Saints front office to scout and select personnel on D via draft, free agency and trades?

Re: Whose job is it to scout D personnel?
 

I believe its a chimpanzee named "CoCo" who throws her feces at a draft chart, and that is who we pick.

Re: Whose job is it to scout D personnel?
 

The Saints are years away from being competitive.

Brees will be retired by the time we get to the SB again.

Re: Whose job is it to scout D personnel?
 

I think its Steve Urkel.

Re: Whose job is it to scout D personnel?
 

Mickey LOOMIS is the GM. It is HIS job to scout talent and build the roster.

MR. LOOMIS, WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING, CAP?

Your GM is supposed to be your football guru
 

Loomis is the GM. In your model NFL front office, your GM is your football player personnel guru who knows how to build a roster.

If the Saints roster sucks on D (and it does suck) that means that the FO is not getting the job done. That means LOOMIS is not getting the job done.

People say "well Loomis is not a football guy, he's just an accountant". Well, Benson needs to hire a football guy to be GM. Loomis is in the wrong job.

Re: Your GM is supposed to be your football guru
 

Unfortunately, in this era of the NFL it is very hard for a GM to go out and get what he wants. With the salary cap you have to prioritize, and while defense is clearly the top priority at this point, you can't let your best players on offense simply walk away. We had to re-sign Drew and Colston, and signed Grubbs to replace Nicks. And the Saints also have to keep their eyes toward the future when Jimmy Graham is going to command a lot of money. That made it very hard to get much defensive help, but I thought they made a couple good pickups with Lofton, Hawthorne and Bunkley. It just hasn't worked out. I have no idea what can be done with this defense.

Re: Whose job is it to scout D personnel?
 

i don't know who it is but he/she did a good job with Hicks!

Re: Whose job is it to scout D personnel?
 

Scouting on D is way too inconsistent

We found hicks who could turn out to be the "jimmy Graham" of the defense

Then you have patrick robinson, why we picked him in the first round just proves our stupidity, what a waste of a pick for a guy thats getting close to being like jason david

I hate spags scheme, we can't stop the run, we can't stop the pass, players are constantly out of position, i thought it was getting better every week but last night was a major set back

Re: Whose job is it to scout D personnel?
 

If it was Mickey Loomis who was really the one picking all the players all by himself, without input from the coaches, in a vacuum, then the Haslett teams would have been better than they were, and/or the Super Bowl and 13-3 teams would have been more average/mediocre like the 8-8 Haslett teams. If Loomis was really that bad, if he were really so incompetent, then the current Saints under both Haslett and Payton would be worse than their record during Randy Mueller era.

The way it REALLY works is that Sean Payton, Steve Spagnuolo, Mickey Loomis and the coaching and scouting staff all sit around with lists of names on pieces of paper, and discuss them and arrive at consensus on what they want. The scouting on D is way too inconsistent, but look who is the head coach, look at his background, where do you think his mind is at most of the time, in these scouting meetings? It's a real weakness the team has, but it's not Loomis.

Mickey Loomis is responsible for all football operations, coaching, player personnel and scouting, salary cap management, contract negotiations, athletic training, equipment, video and communications. He has over 25 years in the NFL so to say he is not a "football guy" is pretty absurd.

No matter how much people want it, we will never see a Saints team with this offense and a dominant Dome Patrol style defense, AT THE SAME TIME. It just won't happen.

Re: Whose job is it to scout D personnel?
 

Funny thing is, all we need is an average D and we would make the Super Bowl

Instead we have the worst defense since 1950

Re: Whose job is it to scout D personnel?
 

As soon as the bounty broke the Saints hands were tied. Free agent players didn’t know whether to come to the Saints after hearing the coaches will be gone for the entire season, left us with no upgrades in terms of free agents and not replacements (Nicks/Grubbs) type players. With Brees in a contract holdout he could not have done what he did lat year, that holdout cost us in timing.

Re: Whose job is it to scout D personnel?
 

On offense, payton was good enough to coach up slap d!(ks. Defense is a little different. either you have it or you dont. our guys just dont

Re: Whose job is it to scout D personnel?
 

Average? LOL


Fk Dizzle we won the SB with the 25th ranked defense lol...
I think at 31st we would be 5-2

Re: Whose job is it to scout D personnel?
 

I appreciate this post. Thanks.

Spags hasn't finished his first year, so, I'm not sure whether he's to blame for this horrible roster on D. That leaves Coach Payton ( an offense guy), and Loomis ( a businessman, accountant, but, not an expert on talent eval).

The Saints need to improve the Front Office. When I say a "football guy" is needed, I mean that the Saints need a guy who is not only a talented scout, but, who can supervise the scouts who are his subordinates.

The Saints D roster has been declining for years, despite the fact that money WAS spent for this roster. SOMEBODY or SOMETHING is responsible for the failure. If the cause of the problem can't be identified, then, this problem won't be solved. The problem has been festering for years, and, it looks to fester for more years.

Some people say that Spags is the problem -- Spags -- they guy who hasn't finished his first year here. That doesn't compute. Let's take a harder look at the people who have been here longer and had more input in building this "roster" on D.

This may well turn out the be the worst Defense in the HISTORY of the National Football League. Fans have a right to be angry and to demand answers.

:bng:

Re: Whose job is it to scout D personnel?
 

Here ya go: Pick one or a handfull...

Player Personnel
Ryan Pace Director of Pro Scouting
Rick Reiprish Director of College Scouting
Brian Adams Assistant Director of College Scouting
Terry Fontenot Pro Scout
Ryan Powell Pro Scout
Mike Baugh Area Scout
Dwaune Jones Area Scout
Josh Lucas Area Scout
Jim Monos Area Scout
Terry Wooden Area Scout
Ryan Hollern Combine Scout
Joey Vitt, Jr. Combine Scout <--- nepotism?
Jason Mitchell College Scouting Coordinator
Matt Manocherian Scouting Assistant
Michael Parenton Scouting Assistant



New Orleans Saints | Staff

Re: Whose job is it to scout D personnel?
 

Not entirely sure I can agree here.

We signed Curtis Lofton, Broderick Bunkley, David Hawthorne, and Chris Chamberlain this off-season to shore up our defense. Lofton is making as much of a difference as he can, Bunkley hasn't been bad, and the other two are hurt, so its not like we weren't attracting some talent.

But when people who have been doing something their whole lives can't figure out who to cover in a freaking zone scheme you gotta wonder who's asleep at the wheel. Sounds like we should've been hoping for Mike Nolan instead of Spags after all...

Re: Whose job is it to scout D personnel?
 

I'm laying it squarely at the feet of Rick Reiprish.

Re: Whose job is it to scout D personnel?
 

Over half of that staff needs to go then

Re: Whose job is it to scout D personnel?
 

Well this is my own personal take on how we have arrived at the Most Horrible Defense In History...

I’m no expert. AT ALL. But when Gregg Williams first came here, I did some research on him, to try and see what he was gonna bring us. Because I was so tired of the defense losing games, after 2008! I went out and read and searched a lot of articles from the local sports writers in different places, about previous Williams teams, Washington and Buffalo, and about the Titans team he took to the Super Bowl, to try and learn more about the Gregg Williams D.


He was known for this. It was very specific. His defenses had a kind of a formula to them.

1) good to really good corners & secondary -- this was a big part of his emphasis. Remember how freaking lockdown good we used to be, LOL? In Washington Williams had that guy SEan Taylor who died, but who was really good. The Titans Super Bowl team was a really good secondary, too, with a couple of Pro Bowlers..
2) Williams would then have ONE playmaker/anchor type "star" linebacker, who in our case was Jonathan Vilma, surrounded by a cast of faceless "nobody" linebackers. That's exactly how his other defenses worked. and how it was here. Shanle! I forget the cat’s name but in Washington he had the same deal, a veteran linebacker to “anchor” the defense and be a leader.
3) then Williams would have 1 or sometimes 2 guys on the line who were playmakers, and just kind of physical, badass in-your-face guys. Jevon Kearse was one of those, AFC Defensive Player of the Year in 1999.
And then Williams would have other guys in the line who were like hatchet guys, or goons, just go after the QB and take off his head. Sound familiar? We had it with Hargrove and McCray and Remi. Kind of random WHO ARE THESE GUYS type of players.

I don't know all their names,but Gregg Williams did this same model with the other defenses of his.


So part of the reason why Williams was a GOOD fit here, is because his coaching "philosophy" really does work with, low talent, journeyman, or kinda low budget players being supported by your handful of key really good or great players. The idea was that the stars would anchor the thing, (Greer/Porter/Sharper/Harper in back, Vilma, I dunno, maybe we can say Will Smith was good on the line back then?) and the decent players could play the scheme, and it would WORK, at least most of the time. When it didn't work, it was usually spectacular failure in the running game -- remember all those 80 and 90 yard touchdown runs, usually once per game somebody would rip one off, because somebody didn't do their exact specific job, and the whole thing broke down. Usually because Vilma was held, LOL.


The other thing that Gregg Williams did a lot of, was tinkering. You’re here now, then you're gone, out the door, never to be heard of again. I like you, no I don’t. But again, it was a good fit with Payton as head coach, because Payton kind of has ADD like that, about the offense. Short fuse. If you haven’t made a big play for me in the last 20 minutes, I don’t remember who you are, get out of here.

So NOW, fast forward, and Gregg Williams has left...we have been cobbling together this defense of really sort of No-Name guys, ON PURPOSE, because that's how it was meant to be built. And now we're missing some of the key anchors too. This was actually a big part of Gregg Williams’ demise in Washington, EXACTLY. The story was that as Gregg Williams went on there, certain key guys would leave or be run off, or retire, and then they’d be replaced by lesser guys, and it didn’t work out.

Then you have Vilma hurt....Lofton is tackling people. The rest of them? It's TURRIBLE.

I can’t speak to the so-called “Spags system” because I didn’t research it out; I don’t really see much of a system out there, just a bunch of headless chickens.

So we have a big honking mess. We have guys who have not developed, we have guys who have regressed and gotten WORSE, we have marginal guys like Fujita who leave and then suddenly the whole thing LOOKS LIKE it craps out, but it sorta doesn’t . But I'm not sure it's a thing you can put at one doorstep and lay it down there and say 'THAT'S THE PROBLEM.'

Re: Whose job is it to scout D personnel?
 

So tl;dr version is, the problem here is almost exactly the same as when Gregg Williams left Washington and Tennessee and he was very unpopular, except in our case Gregg Williams kinda skipped outta town and is not here to take the blame for it.

Re: Whose job is it to scout D personnel?
 

AWESOME post. Thanks!

:bng:

Re: Whose job is it to scout D personnel?
 

Thanks very much for this post. CLEARLY, the above staff members need some manager to begin to subject them to scrutiny. We need a "Belichick-style" system of building a D roster, and we need a GM or other Manager with the knowledge and authority to hire and fire competent scouts.

:bng:

Re: Whose job is it to scout D personnel?
 

So...you're saying let's sack the guy who is consistently credited with bringing us Pierre Thomas, Lance Moore, and all the other undrafted rookies and low round gems that have made our team what it is.... Every Saints' position group features at least one former undrafted rookie from the college ranks. Reiprish is often credited with being THAT GUY. You're saying sack the guy who was actually a very successful football college drafter before coming to the Saints, and brought the Jaguars from brand new team to 11-5 and the top of the AFC in like only 3 years of running their draft. It's waaay more complicated than that. We can't just fire our way out of this.

Re: Whose job is it to scout D personnel?
 

To put it all together.. Read SaintsBros post and understand that GW would tell Reiprish what he needed to find.

Reiprish is a hound dog of sorts.... He is put on a scent an finds it...

Spags comes in an doesn't know what he has yet thus doesn't know what scent to put the dog on... LBs was an easy one with Vilma not being able to play.

Re: Whose job is it to scout D personnel?
 

He's in charge of the scouting. He reports his staff's scouting reports to Loomis. He suggests which players Loomis should go after.

Rick has been a round a long time and is well respected. I'm sure he'll "adjust" his department accordingly.

IIRC he blew up the scouting department several years back. I'm sure he'll consider doing it again.

Re: Whose job is it to scout D personnel?
 

I hear ya' Bro. But somebody has to be held responsible for seeing that ALL draft picks he ok's are better than ok. I mean that they should be doing a better job with the success of our first rounders.
Whoever is scouting the smaller schools is doing a great job. Whoever is scouting the larger schools needs to rethink his evaluations at the very least.

Re: Whose job is it to scout D personnel?
 

Thanks for the "insider" info. This is the kind of input that helps me to understand what's going on with the Saints. I'm glad to learn that Rick knows what he's doing.

Re: Whose job is it to scout D personnel?
 

Nothing really "insider" about it. Its on the Saints website.

Re: Whose job is it to scout D personnel?
 

Does rick know what he's doing really?

Sed Ellis, Pat Robinson says it all