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If you had to name ONE thing that COULD be the down-fall of this Saints team; What would it be??

List the problem and give an explaination as to why you feel this is a the BIGGEST problem.

Only list ONE problem. Please do not go into other areas. Just tell us what you feel is the SINGLE biggest problem on this team !!

After everyone has "voted", I would like to discuss the problem more in-depth and see if we can ALL come to some kind of conclusion on that problem.

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I still think our LB\'s stopping the run. Until teh Saints can prove their upgrades have truly addressed this, I feel this is THE problem. WHen the other team can control the clock, they control our destiny.

I\'m sire most will say our DB\'s, but games are won and lost with running.

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The inability of our coaching staff to turn players with enormous potential into solid producers on the field.

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Aaron Brooks\' inconsistency.

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Ditto St. Shrume. Our linebackers are our biggest liability.

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Linebackers - We will be sending untested players in on Sundays.
We could be seeing a repeat of last year by this group.

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I think the major issue is lack of discipline from the coaching staff. At least it has been in the past. From what I hear, Has is cracking down this year at camp. We\'ll see anyway.

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I like to think we\'ll improve on all the stuff we lacked last year.
Leadership, coaching, winning the one play it takes to win a game.
My biggest fear is a major INJURY

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Man it\'s really hard to argue with that. I like Haz, I really do, but we\'ve got the talent...for the most part...so what else is there to blame it on really? We don\'t have the best DB\'s or LB\'s for sure, but the guys we\'ve got should be able to compete.

Coaching. Yup. But for some reason I still have hope.

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Results so far:

Coaching - 4
Linebacker - 3
Brooks - 1
Injuries - 1

Well, it\'s close as of right now. We need some more votes. Come on people, give us some votes. And thanks to the folks who voted!!

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Should have asked everyone for the top 3.

And clarify. Does linebackers mean the personnel, or the coaching of this unit. I believe the talent is there. They just aren\'t being coached up.
I challenge you to show me a LB that has improved under Winston Moss.

heres my breakdown
Problem areas listed from most troubling to least troubling

Def Coordinator/coaches
Head Coach
Offensive Coordinator/coaches
LB (Players)
CB (Players)
O-line (Players)
D-Line (Players)
Special Teams (Coaching)
WR (Players)
QB (Players)
Special Teams (Players)
TE (Players)
RB (Players)

[Edited on 19/8/2004 by Danno]

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Danno --

I thought about asking something along those lines. But, it complicates things. Gets into too many areas and off topic too much.

If someone feels like it\'s coaching, no matter what coach, just say coaching and explain what you mean. If it\'s talent at linebacker ... list that and explain.

I\'m interested in what the MAJORITY thinks our # 1 problem is.

I have 2 reasons for asking this question:

1. I\'m torn between what I think the biggest problem is.
2. It\'s always interesting to see what everyone else thinks.

Now, someone give us some votes. !!! :exclam:


[Edited on 19/8/2004 by GumboBC]

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Linebacker, when your safety is leading the race in # of tackles, that means Linebackers are not doing their job.

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I agree with you too Shrume, the linebacking corps has alot of questions to answer in a very short time. With the players we have in the best case scenario they will be average this year in my opinion. I don\'t think Grant will have much of an impact if any at all, the jury\'s still out on Watson, Ruff could be very good, Bockwoldt needs a shot, a few others are good with talent. I think we need to just find the right combination.

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Consistency (which comes from coaching).

That is CLOSELY followed by what Danno said. Potential becoming good play. That is also coaching.

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Latest count:

Coaching: 5
Linebackers: 5
Brooks: 1
Injuries: 1

It\'s closer than a George W. vs. Al Gore race!! ;)

Well, I\'ll be the supreme court and cast my vote for ..... Coaching. :P

I was torn between coaching and linebackers. After reading what everyone had to say, some of you swayed me to go with coaching.

I do agree with those who think our linebackers are a weak area. Lets hope and pray. I\'m sure Haslett is !!

But lets talk about coaching. Let\'s take one more vote. This vote will be about coaching. It can be about any coach on the Saints. Doesn\'t have to be just about Haslett.

For those of you who voted for something other than coaching, let\'s hear your opinion on our coaching staff also...

Here\'s the question:

What is the biggest weakness of our coaching staff? What area of coaching is our biggest liability?

P.S. -- Again, just list ONE area. And give an explaination. Maybe we can get to the bottom of this. Or, at least we can learn a little more.

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It would be presumptious of me to say that i know that the CB coach, or LB coach is the problem. I do not go to their practices, I do not know what happens out there.

So I have to put the blame squarely on Haz\'s shoulders. I am a fan of Haz\'s. Just like his attitude. He MAY become a good coach, he MAY be becoming one, and this year can prove it one way or the other.

BUT, as head coach, if as Danno thinks, the LB coach is not getting the most out of your players, find someone else. Def Coordinator not scheming well, get someone else.

I love loyalty, I love faith in fellow members, but crappy performance should be accepted only so long. So I would have to lay the blame on Haz.

Man, if Haz and co. get the can this year, you talk about the hottest job opening in the NFL!! Who wouldn\'t want to step in and take all the talent we have and just have to turn it up a notch or 2 to get us over the hump.

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Venturi needs to disappear.

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Since mine was a singular vote, I feel the need to explain further (although I thought it was self-explanatory).

As compared to the LBs, if Aaron improves his play and playsat least 80% of his potential I think we win most games regardless of whether the LBs get better. I don\'t think the converse, that if the LBs improve and Aaron doesn\'t, we win, is true.

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This little vote I\'m conducting is taking more time than I thought.

The majority says that \"coaching\" is the biggest problem.

Now that we\'ve got it narrowed down. What\'s is THE BIGGEST problem with the coaching??

B&B has tabbed Venturi as BIGGEST of the problems with our coaching staff. I agree with that.

Don\'t make me call you guys OUT (lummOx ;) ) Let\'s hear it. Might as well vote. I ain\'t going no where.

And neither is this thread...LMAO... :P

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I didn\'t say he was the BIGGEST problem, I just stated he needed to disappear. McCarthy has me scratching my head as well.
I pulled Venturi up because our defense hasn\'t been the same since he took over for Zook.

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im a new guy to the forums...but i say the prob is LEADERSHIP

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Elaborate

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Coaching

1. The complete refusal of the head coach to address areas of glaring need (LB, CB)
2. The total inability of the head coach to turn potential into players.
3. The head coach\'s need to be last year\'s superbowl champion.
4. The head coach makes excuses (Roaf was a cancer, Ricky was a cancer, too many injuries, Aaron is too young, no affordable free agents, it was our fans, etc)
5. The head coach plays favorites among players and makes enemies of other players.
6. The head coach folds under pressure (Gee a 2 pointer makes so much sense here)

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I JUST CAN\'T LET THIS ONE SLIP BY...

Complete refusal?
Drafted a LB in every draft for 4 straight years.
Signed free agent LB\'s Ruff and Rogers
Signed/Drafted a CB for 4 straight years.
Carter/Ambrose/Brown/Craft
You can argue he hasn\'t had glaring success, but NO WAY can you claim a refusal to address.

One right!
I have no clue what this means.
Haz never said Roaf was a cancer, or that Rickey was a cancer. Haz never said there were no affordable free-agents. he doesn\'t decide that anyway. Loomis does. He never blamed injuries for squat. Some have suggested they have played a part but Haz never blamed injuries for anything.

As does every coach. I don\'t think he\'s worried about enemies like Turley and Hawthorne or Gravy. I think most knowledable coaches would have done the same thing.
Funny, T-rex had nothing but great things to say about Haz and the Saints.
You think Turley would have tipped off Conwell about Haz. Maybe Conwell knows Turley better than most.
Hawthorne: Have the Vikings traded Randy Moss for him yet? He\'s as good a WR as Moss and is one of the best CB\'s in the league.
Gravy: Lets see, we cut him when he ballooned up to 370 lbs and was taking too many plays off, for the 4th year in a row.
I don\'t think its a much folding as it is ignorance.



[Edited on 20/8/2004 by Danno]

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Hmmm, I say \"coaching\" and you say \"coaching\" and you still give this response?

I\'ll concede a little bit. How about an interest in filling critical needs on the cheap? Ruff and Rogers weren\'t really major coups when we landed them. I don\'t recall a lot being said like, \"wow the Saints defense just took a major step in the right direction.\" Carter, Ambrose, Brown and Craft are the same story. Carter used to be a good player, but was a big risk when we signed him. Ambrose and Craft weren\'t going to remain with their teams anyway.

In the draft, Hodge was a 3rd round pick, Allen was a 3rd rounder, Grant was born injured and Watson is the most promising of the bunch. In 03, we traded up for Sullivan who is having a hard time starting when we could have gotten Boss Bailey or Nick Barnett or maybe both.

We haven\'t made a big move on a free agent who would make a difference like Spikes, Fletcher, Colvin, etc. So yeah, I think Haslett thinks he can fix the unit on the cheap. Same deal with CB. The best free agents that become available and there is not a peep of interest from the Saints. I hold Venturi, dismal though he is, less responsible than Haslett. Venturi is making do with the guys he has.

It means, Haslett drops whatever formula he operates under to mimick the last super bowl winner. Wide open passing attack, speed on defense, etc.

You\'re right, Loomis\' extensive and long term football background must mean that he makes all personnel decisions in a vacuum and Haslett has no role at all. I take comfort in remembering that when push comes to shove, Haslett will still blame the fans for poor performance. Philly is always so successful because their fans are so supportive and understanding of mistakes.

What gets me is that Haslett continues to make excuses for Brooks. And he\'s willing to make guys like Willie Roaf who can do nothing but help you win games not want to play for you. I can\'t explain why Haslett coached teams give up on him. I don\'t know what it is, maybe taking the poker table out of the locker room will give a more blue collar, workmanlike approach to the club, but Dave Campo took the same approach with the cowboys in his last year.

Whatever it is, Haslett has dug himself into a hole in several winnable games where he goes for 2 once and fails and has to go for 2 again just to try and break even. I don\'t get it.

I don\'t see where the heartburn is coming from? Don\'t open up the spinach or anything, I just think the problem is coaching and Haslett ostensibly is responsible for that part of the game.

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This kind of thinking may have actually saved us. ;)

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BnB, you might be right. I want you to be right. The Patriots have 2 Lombardi trophies to show for this type of thinking and I wish we could make it happen in N.O. too. I\'m just not sure that Haslett is in the same league of coaching or talent evaluation.

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These debates about Haslett usually lead to the same dead end road.

We can sit here and talk about the players Haslett shipped out of New Orleans till the cows come home, but it does little to give us any insight on how the team will do THIS year.

Wille Roaf, Kyle Turly, and Sammy Knight are gone. They ain\'t coming back.

The only thing about coaching that\'s relevant to THIS year is whether or not Haslett and co. can get enough of his guys to step up and whether or not they can put together a good game plan every Sunday.

In my mind, the important questions are:

1. Does Haslett and the coaching staff put together a good game plan for the different teams we face every week?

2. Do the players play hard for Haslett?

3. Does Mike McCarthy use his personnel correctly?

4. Is Venturi\'s defensive scheme technically sound?

5. What\'s Peace doing that\'s so much differnent that it\'s going to make a major improvement?

Those are the things I\'m interested in. If we can improve in some of those areas, I think we have a good shot at this thing.

If not, we\'re just another talented team that wasted it another year.

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This cheap thing kind of struck a cord with me and here\'s why:

1. I think the entire organization has been cheap since the beginning, with the exception of Tricky and we did\'nt really have to pay him alot, because of all of those contract clauses, but we wiped the next draft for him, so in reality we had two poor drafts, becasue of Tricky. The cheap thing is not the coaching staffs fault.
2. Haz inherited a terrible team, which Ditka ran into the ground, along with Tricky.
3. Haz has drafted players at need positions, whether we want to agree with this statement or not, is your own opinion. He felt as the head coach that our DB situation would get better with age, like a fine wine and drafted D-Line and LB\'s to stop the run. Watson and Bockwoldt will be great someday in my opinion, but what can you expect from the draft. I mean how many players come into this league and have an impact their first year, not many.
4. We have one of the youngest teams in the NFL and sometimes is takes a while for young teams to win. Rebuilding was the only priority for Haz.
5. Injuries factor into winning and losing for every team, so I don\'t think Haz should have this as an excuse, but every coach does it, don\'t they.
5. We have been a .500 club the last three years, with rebuilding, youngsters and new philosphy, injuries and cheap.
6. Haz has addressed the D-Line coaching staff, Pease has done it before with a list of no names and will do it again and yes they were no names when they started.
7. We now have in my opinion the deepest Defensive and Offensive Line in the NFL and that\'s my opinion.
8. We now have one of the fastest teams period.

Do you think Haz is doing something right? I do and in my opinion doing all the right things. Starting Brooks, trading Tricky, Turley and Roaf and yes they were a cancer, if he did\'nt say it I will. Bringing in alot of young talent and this was his plan from the beginning, to make a forever bright future for the organization from the ground up.

Do we all forget at the beginning of a season, we all hoped we would win at least 2 or three games and just beat the Falcons one time.

We haven\'t taken a step back into the past in hiring Haz, but maybe some of us should.

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Where\'s all the opinions, come on guys you can do better than this!

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I have a hard time providing ONE answer. I\'m split between what I believe are two equally large and equally important problems.

1. Consistency: Our coaching staff doesn\'t seem to provide itself, players, fans, etc. with any clear, direct, or enduring strategy or direction for this team. Haslett wants to be a players\' coach one year and a hard-a$$ the next. First we\'re big, then we\'re fast... we develop this spread attack in \'02 to become conservative in \'03. You all know the story.

2. Flexibility/Creativity: Our staff seems to have a really hard time evolving or modifying its game plan when it is necessary. They never seem to be able to make adjustments in game or even in season. By the time they finally figure out what we generally all know to be the problem already, it\'s too late. That ability to change to deal with what works and what doesn\'t, how to deal with the opponent, etc. is extremely important in the NFL.


I know at first these two ideas seem contradictory. First I\'m saying that they are inconsistent, then I say that they can\'t change enough. Let me explain...

I think that the coaching staff needs to have a clear long-term direction that it is going in. This is how teams develop their \"character\" - the fiery tough defensively minded Ravens or Bucs, the explosive Rams or Colts, the underachievers who fight through all types of adversity in Tennessee or New England. That said, coaches have to be flexible in shorter bursts and adjust to win. I don\'t think that happens. I think the coaches make wholesale changes each offseason in their philosophy creating no longer term continuity, and then fail to adjust much if at all in-season. After the season fails, they come back and make wholesale changes again.

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Losing to many players to free agent\'s

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Coaching covers it....the LB problem and DB problem should\'ve been addressed and that falls entirely on the coach. The enormous talent that everyone in the NFL agrees we have has not been utilized, that falls on the coaching. A winning \"team\" attitude is non-existent, that falls on the coaching. So, in case you haven\'t figured it out, my vote goes for the coaching being the biggest problem. Does anyone disagree that if someone like Parcells or Holmgren were coaching the Saints we would be a totally different team?

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coaching

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O.k. Coaching is a deep concern for all of us. I think it started when Zook and Bunting left and then is was a snowball-effect. I wouldn\'t even call Venturi a D.C. And you can blame Haslett for not making the right coaching change which would be Venturi. He has never been a sucessful D.C. He might have been a decent positions coach one time or another in his life, but that doesn\'t make him a good defensive coordinator. I hate Venturi with a passion and McCarthy is just too predictable. I fear a clean up in the front office just because I am fearful that Benson won\'t make a very good football decision on to who will lead us in the right direction.

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Coordinators. Both of them. Too unimaginative. Too conservative. Too predictable. Both fail to match scheme to the talent that they have. Both fail to prepare for the inevitable injuries that occur on both sides of the ball.

A coordinator\'s job is to match a scheme that maximizes the talent that they have available and to get that talent to consistently and seamlessly execute that scheme. The Saints haven\'t done that on either side of the ball in three years and it shows in their record.

SFIAH

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I agree with Boogro and SFIAH, but I will say that McCarthy is worse than Venturi for this. Think of the difference in talent and experience on either side of the ball; if Venturi were average, I would say he was doing ok - if McCarthy were average, I\'d say he sucks. Man, I can predict the off-guard iso left and I can\'t even see the defensive alignment on the tv! I like what I saw yesterday night, but the execution wasn\'t there.

My vote:
(1) Offensive game plan and coordination.
(2) CBs need too much help from the Safeties and DL.
(3) WRs need some freakin\' hands. All that speed is useless if you never bring one down. The QBs were hitting these guys square in the hands for cryin\' out loud.

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It may seem like a dumb question, but improve how?

Let\'s run a thought experiment. Swap Brooks and Trent Green of KC with last year\'s numbers which are somewhat similar. How would that swap impact the overall record of each team? Would KC still be 13-3 or near it? Would the Saints have won 3-4 more games? Why or why not?

Football more than anything else is a team game. It takes 53 guys on all sides of the ball for a team to be successful. Brooks doesn\'t call plays. Brooks doesn\'t block most of the time. Brooks doesn\'t catch (and more importantly doesn\'t drop) the ball. I haven\'t seen yesterday\'s game (And won\'t until 12PM on Tuesday on NFL Network) but from the news
reports Brooks had 6 imcompletions and 4 of those were drops by the receivers. So how is he supposed to \"improve\" when guys are not catching the ball?

I\'m more frustrated with his injury than with anything else.

SFIAH

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I don\'t agree with the coaching issue, the coaches can\'t catch those dropped balls, get those penalty flags thrown at them or block the opposing teams defensive line and those were the problems last night, not the coaching staff.

I would hope that the coaching staff is using the preseason to determine who deserves to start and the ones that need to be riding the pine for a while.