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dizzle88 11-29-2012 11:48 PM

Brees letting the team down
 
Past two weeks have been completely on him

7 interceptions in two weeks when he'd only threw 9 all year

100 million dollars and a holdout, what a fantastic choice our team made

73Saint 11-29-2012 11:59 PM

Re: Brees letting the team down
 
Nah, it's so many variables. Drew looked awful tonight, and last week was rough to say the least. But it's not all on him, no way, not even close. Put 80% of the NFL teams in the situation we were in this year and they would not compete. We have, and we will continue to. Drew will be fine, and assuming we get SP back we will be back in business next year.

arsaint 11-29-2012 11:59 PM

Re: Brees letting the team down
 
Drew spent the 1st half of the season trying to overcome that pathetic excuse for a defense (which I agree is playing better now).

Someone needs to tell he that he doesn't have to force things to try to score on every drive any longer.


Personally, I think the INTs were not the issue.

It was the Les Miles clock management at the end of the half and the penalty on JG that took away a TD.

The "7" was hanging out in the L column at that point...

bobdog86 11-30-2012 12:06 AM

Re: Brees letting the team down
 
He's pressing....This is where Sean P. typically earns his benjamins. He has the ability to keep Drew on task. There's no one on the sideline willing or capable of grabbing him and shaking the living dog pi*s out of him. In light of our 32nd rank defense I think he's trying to do too much. As the D improves hopefully he pulls his head out of his arse.

Halo 11-30-2012 12:20 AM

Re: Brees letting the team down
 
Let's dump him!
He didn't do anything to get us where we are.
He's in it for the money. It's all about him.
He tried to throw these games... yep, that's it. Threw 'em....

We would do SO MUCH BETTER with let's see - BYRON LEFWICH or TONY ROMO or maybe we can lure MATTY ICE from the Falcons?

**cough cough cough** (sarcasm)

RailBoss 11-30-2012 12:39 AM

Re: Brees letting the team down
 
Hard to believe that every tipped ball winds up in a Defenders hands. What are the odds of that, just a multitude of bad luck. We should have walked away with a win today the Saints beat themselves.

darstep 11-30-2012 01:17 AM

Re: Brees letting the team down
 
Yep! Defense finally broke a sweat, and the offense stalled.
We scored over 20 in every game this season, except week8 @Denver.
The INT's were just part of the problem.
We had tips also, 4-5 of them, and they ALL hit the ground with no Johnny-on-the-spot.
Please tell me why Ingram isn't standing on the sideline watching PT and Ivory show him how to run in the NFL?
If only IF was a skif, I would go boat riding.
Take back the take back of the Sproles TD (our fault ((for getting caught))),
or even trade it in for a catch of the Lance Moore drop,
Zack Strief doesn't give up the sack,
they actually call holding on the Mat Ryan escape and 3rd down conversion to JuJo,
game could have turned on a dime, easily.
We were still in the game and just didn't get it done.
There are bound to be days like this as much as we throw the ball, even weeks like these.
What we are seeing has everything to do with these substitute teachers and not having
Sean Payton, the master teacher, to set his classroom in order.
We've got too many bolts loose to run smooth. They'll all get tightened soon.

OldMaid 11-30-2012 01:36 AM

Re: Brees letting the team down
 
I agree with you dizzle except for your last sentence.
YES, no lying Drew B these last two games...unbelievable...acting like a newbie, a rookie.
Yes, he has been really off.
Tonight, lost two TD's for sure.
I went to bed at beginning of 3rd qrtr.
Whatever was to be , was to be and I was jsut too anxious so I figured , whatever, I will catch NFL Net news in the morning.
I WILL NOT be watching tomorrow morning or pregame shows this weekend.

Many factors , I won't repeat again as we all have for Saints' 7 L, 5 W.

I'll quote darstep,
"What we are seeing has everything to do with these substitute teachers and not having
Sean Payton, the master teacher, to set his classroom in order.
We've got too many bolts loose to run smooth. They'll all get tightened soon. "

RockyMountainSaint 11-30-2012 02:25 AM

Re: Brees letting the team down
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by dizzle88 (Post 461418)
Past two weeks have been completely on him

7 interceptions in two weeks when he'd only threw 9 all year

100 million dollars and a holdout, what a fantastic choice our team made

Embrace your identity

dizzle88 11-30-2012 03:00 AM

Re: Brees letting the team down
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RockyMountainSaint (Post 461468)
Embrace your identity

Can't call me a bandwagon fan for having an opinion, A bandwagon fan would be saying there never watching again and I never said that
I watch every game without fail no matter win or lose and will always do it, but my opinion is recently brees has sucked

Don't criticise people for having there own views

NOS2SB 11-30-2012 03:22 AM

Re: Brees letting the team down
 
The only person to blame for this loss is Drew Brees. The defense did exceptional.

burningmetal 11-30-2012 03:34 AM

Re: Brees letting the team down
 
I have learned one thing, for sure, since joining this site. You can never, under any circumstances, place any blame on Drew Brees. It's always someone else's fault, and any conclusion to the contrary means we "must have forgotten about the first 40 years". And every time someone questions his play in a game, it means we're blaming the whole season on him.

I agree with dizzle on this one about the last two weeks. It might not be popular to say Brees sucks right now, but guess what? He does. I'm not predicting he'll never win a game again, but I'm sure that will immediately be the assumption upon reading this, for many people. So be it. He has his entire offense healthy again, his defense was great for the last 3 quarters, and yes there were a couple crucial drops, but the face of the franchise can't let that snowball into 5 turnovers and numerous near turnovers. Last week was largely his and the offensive line's fault, but this game was at least 85 to 90 percent on him.

There's nothing wrong with a little honesty. I'm still a Drew Brees fan, but I'm not a fan of his play right now.

Crusader 11-30-2012 04:31 AM

Re: Brees letting the team down
 
I didn't see the 5th pick but the first 4 was all on Brees. First one was thrown way to late but I can buy that one. Second really misplaced to Ivorys back shoulder in a rough spot, throw that one out of bounds. Very early in your career as a QB you ar thaught not to throw across your body especially while not having your feet on the ground voila pick no 3. 4th was horrible protection but still just take the damn sack.

Saint_LB 11-30-2012 05:14 AM

Re: Brees letting the team down
 
He may not have played well for the last couple of games, but, man...did you catch that pre-game chant? You can tell they worked their butt's off getting that down! Too bad they didn't spend that much time practicing football.

Brees didn't just suddenly become a mediocre QB. It took a whole offseason and an unbalanced payroll for that to happen. Great QB's become average when they have people in their face all night. If only we could afford to pay our offensive linemen more. Oh well...here's a phrase that we all must remember. "Wait until next year!"

TheOak 11-30-2012 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dizzle88 (Post 461473)
Can't call me a bandwagon fan for having an opinion, A bandwagon fan would be saying there never watching again and I never said that
I watch every game without fail no matter win or lose and will always do it, but my opinion is recently brees has sucked

Don't criticise people for having there own views

Just for my own personal understanding.

What you are saying is "don't have an opinion or personal view of people who have an opinion or a personal view"?

Am I close?

dizzle88 11-30-2012 06:27 AM

Re: Brees letting the team down
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOak (Post 461488)
Just for my own personal understanding.

What you are saying is "don't have an opinion or personal view of people who have an opinion or a personal view"?

Am I close?

Nope not close at all

Everyone can have their own views about eachother, I never said they couldn't

But calling me a bandwagon fan because I'm saying brees is to blame is absurd

TheOak 11-30-2012 07:07 AM

Re: Brees letting the team down
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dizzle88 (Post 461492)
Nope not close at all

Everyone can have their own views about eachother, I never said they couldn't

But calling me a bandwagon fan because I'm saying brees is to blame is absurd

You saying Brees it 100% to blame when a coach with a damned good running game decided to force a QB that is having an off night and throwing picks to keep throwing picks is absurd.

Thomas was averaging 6 yards per carry and healthy. The run was abandoned because poor game management sent us into the 1/2 down by two scores.

You blaming Brees for what was probably the tide turner for this game, abysmal clock and game management just before the 1/2 is absurd.

Cause and effect (adj)-
noting a relationship between actions or events such that one or more are the result of the other or others.

In military terms - When your weapon is malfunctioning you go to another fkn weapon. On int 3 brees would have been benched for Daniels, and PT would have been the work horse.

NonieT 11-30-2012 07:19 AM

Re: Brees letting the team down
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOak (Post 461502)
You saying Brees it 100% to blame when a coach with a damned good running game decided to force a QB that is having an off night and throwing picks to keep throwing picks is absurd.

Thomas was averaging 6 yards per carry and healthy. The run was abandoned because poor game management sent us into the 1/2 down by two scores.

You blaming Brees for what was probably the tide turner for this game, abysmal clock and game management just before the 1/2 is absurd.

Cause and effect (adj)-
noting a relationship between actions or events such that one or more are the result of the other or others.

In military terms - When your weapon is malfunctioning you go to another fkn weapon. On int 3 brees would have been benched for Daniels, and PT would have been the work horse.


I agree. The coaches should have never abandoned the run. It was working. Brees should not have had to throw so much.

TheOak 11-30-2012 07:29 AM

Re: Brees letting the team down
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NonieT (Post 461507)
I agree. The coaches should have never abandoned the run. It was working. Brees should not have had to throw so much.


He should have not been ALLOWED to throw so much.

NonieT 11-30-2012 07:37 AM

Re: Brees letting the team down
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOak (Post 461509)
He should have not been ALLOWED to throw so much.

Same difference!

alleycat_126 11-30-2012 07:49 AM

Re: Brees letting the team down
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dizzle88 (Post 461418)
Past two weeks have been completely on him

7 interceptions in two weeks when he'd only threw 9 all year

100 million dollars and a holdout, what a fantastic choice our team made

Take the good with the bad, this is the choice our team has made. He sucked it up. But it was a great choice.

Utah_Saint 11-30-2012 08:01 AM

Re: Brees letting the team down
 
Whether Drew should get a pass, because of the huge part he's been in the Saints success over the last 6 years and what a great representative he's been for this team and this franchise, is up to each individual fan. He may be your favorite player ever and the reason you watch football.
But there's no denying that 7 interceptions in 2 games is unacceptable for any quarterback at just about any level.

neugey 11-30-2012 08:05 AM

Re: Brees letting the team down
 
I think this is Brees subliminal way of saying to Sean Payton "If you left for Dallas and Tony Romo was your QB, this is what it would look like!"

SloMotion 11-30-2012 08:10 AM

Re: Brees letting the team down
 
'Yes' ... and 'No'. There's no denying 7 picks in two games, no matter how you spin it. Against the 49'ers, I viewed it more as just a chink in the Brees-armor, but one play in particular last night punched me in the face ... the dump pass over the middle to Sproles with no timeouts & 12 seconds left in the half.

It's one of those moments when you realize your heroes are just mortal ... like Superman and kryptonite, Darth Vader being Luke's father (not really, it's just one of those moments), like Peter Parker not using his superpowers to stop the thief that eventually killed his Uncle Ben ... they're all human and they all disappoint/letdown at some point.

The armor cracked ... at that moment, the moment Brees was seemingly not aware of the timeclock, was the moment the weight of the offseason, of Payton not being on the sidelines, of the 0-4 start, the contract negotiations, the pressure of trying to put the team on his shoulders ... it all came crashing down like a rogue wave and swept him out to sea (IMO) ... even if just for a moment. I felt for the guy, I truly did. That's the problem with people putting someone on a pedestal, they always let you down, eventually.

So yeah, I do feel a bit letdown ... not 'throw-under-the-bus' letdown, but more of a 'Drew Brees is human after all' letdown. I got no problem with his contract either, it ain't like he didn't do anything prior to negotiating it to deserve it. Benson didn't have to agree to it.

It is what it is. You bring a girl to the dance, you dance with her, even if she loses step now & then.

winmill1 11-30-2012 08:29 AM

Re: Brees letting the team down
 
I do not think that I have seen Drew like this. Not the play but the mental part. He looked defeated and dejected from the start. Something wasn't right. He wasn't in it. I mean I know he wanted to win, but something was on his mind. I hope it is nothing to do with the Sean Payton situation that we don't know about yet. That was the first thing I thought about.

Mardigras9 11-30-2012 08:35 AM

Re: Brees letting the team down
 
Drew is still the best decision the Saints have made (since 1967). Turns out he's not Superman after all. He had a bad game last night without question, but all QB's do. He came off a 5 sack game four days ago and was under alot of pressure most of the time last night. He will bounce back, he always does. He gives this team the best chance to win the MAJORITY of the time. Clearly these are the times when he needs Sean Payton the most. Who does the person the whole team relies on go to when he needs support this year?

vpheughan 11-30-2012 08:42 AM

Re: Brees letting the team down
 
The "holdout" was brought on by the Saints front office putting the franchise tag on him. He had to wait till it went to trial to see what the court ruled on it. If it were you or any of us we would have done the same thing. It wasn't a "HOLDOUT". As for the rest I don't know if it is fair to lay it all at his feet. The offense looked out of sync like the first 4 games of the season.

I've said it before I live in Indy and the Saints look just like the Colts did last year. Asleep at the wheel and wanting it all to be over.

But really, bouncing a pass of the DL linemans head for an int!!?? Hey Dallas! our 9 looks like your 9!!!! The one at the end that the safety picked was a great play and great coaching. He knew where the ball was going when it left the hand! Either that or he is the worlds fastest human now!

st thomas 11-30-2012 09:19 AM

Re: Brees letting the team down
 
Great day to vent guys we have a game sunday. I'm still hesitant to say its over. The stars could still line up in our favor. And get in thru the back door. U went to bed last nite pissed as hell. U have nothing to be ashamed of. Ur a good fan. U went out side after the game and beat the trash can and yelled something ur a great saints fan u went to bed got up three times in the night went outside and beat the **** out of the trash can i should get somekind of losturmind saints fan award. Thats how bad this lost was for st thomas. I went outside this morning to get the paper and had 3dogs staring me down. Really st thomas. I'm ready for sunday

Mardigras9 11-30-2012 09:22 AM

Re: Brees letting the team down
 
The worst part of that loss is having to deal with the Atlanta fans today. This win is like there Superbowl (at least as close as they will get). I just say, yeh 3-11 in the last 14 against us, you guys are awesome.

Jamessr 11-30-2012 09:25 AM

Re: Brees letting the team down
 
I think people had a false sence of security hoping Drew Brees could "coach" this team...
Bottom line he is a player and a very good one but he still needs coaching from time to time. I do fault him for certain things , like throwing off his back foot into zone coverage but its not all his fault. One guy thats pissing me off is Pete Carmicheal.
You have one of the best QB's to have ever played and you throwing him out to dry with your play calls. Pete carmicheal is nothing more than a clip baord holder for Sean payton.
We get out coach back next year we get old drew back too.

st thomas 11-30-2012 09:51 AM

Re: Brees letting the team down
 
What was priceless last night was when the debacle was finally over last nite did uall see the monkeys running all over the field. It really showed on there faces that the monkey had fell. Not just matty icecycle but all of them. Even fits smith turned white again. It was priceless.

SaintsBro 11-30-2012 10:10 AM

Re: Brees letting the team down
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SloMotion (Post 461522)
' but one play in particular last night punched me in the face ... the dump pass over the middle to Sproles with no timeouts & 12 seconds left in the half.

It's one of those moments when you realize your heroes are just mortal ... like Superman and kryptonite


The armor cracked ... at that moment, the moment Brees was seemingly not aware of the timeclock, was the moment the weight of the offseason, of Payton not being on the sidelines, of the 0-4 start, the contract negotiations, the pressure of trying to put the team on his shoulders ... it all came crashing down like a rogue wave and swept him out to sea (IMO) ... even if just for a moment. I felt for the guy, I truly did. That's the problem with people putting someone on a pedestal, they always let you down, eventually.

Speaking of the Superman thing, I think that Brees WAS aware, he KNEW it was absurdly tight, but he honestly *thought* he could get to the line and miraculously spike it with less than 00:01 second left and they would give it to him. But of course he couldn't. And I don't think he even realized he couldn't, which is where it gets so dangerous.

The letdown is not that YOU realized Drew is mortal, Slo -- the letdown is that HE didn't realize it.

It has a lot to do with the "personality" of the team this year.

I think without Sean Payton around to ground them, and focus them, this team has kind of departed from reality. They were only one foot in reality with Payton anyway, or just barely touching the two toes in bounds before they went out into unreality and craziness, but now without Payton it's gotten dramatically worse. Dysfunctional even.

All the bad stuff that was inside their heads mentally, that Payton usually could keep in check, it all came out into the open this year, without him -- thinking they were invincible, the lackadaisical attitude on defense, the horrible playcalling and use of weapons, being kinda spoiled, players seemed to be expecting things to bounce their way and just happen automatically with ease for them. And mainly the hero trip that Drew gets on, where he only seems like he's happy if he's behind the 8 ball, or keeps making it harder and harder for himself.

So without Payton, Drew is the acknowledged leader of the team this year. Everyone agreed on that. And sure enough, Drew took that weird internal psychological thing he has -- the whole 5'11", back-against-the-wall, mountain-climbing, chip-on-the-shoulder, us-against-the-world mentality he's had his whole career -- and amplified it, he bought other guys into it, and he somehow drove the whole team into this ginormous hole with it, all season long, deeper and deeper. Almost blindly at times, like he couldn't see it happening.

frankeefrank 11-30-2012 10:14 AM

Re: Brees letting the team down
 
I could not agree with this post more.
In Drew Brees, I see a guy who is giving everything he has to help this team win. That has caused him to in sports terms "try do too much."
Quarterbacks throw interceptions. Just like offensive lineman give up sacks, safeties have interceptions go through their hands, linebackers miss tackles, wide receivers drop passes in the end zone and coaches call the plays in a wrong series or at the wrong time.
All of which happened last night. This was a team loss. Sure Drew did more of his part to make the loss happen, but that's because nobody on this team is capable of taking the burden off his shoulders. Teams win games when their QB's don't play well, see Atlanta, this is not one of those teams. Hasn't been in a while.

SloMotion 11-30-2012 10:16 AM

Re: Brees letting the team down
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SaintsBro (Post 461594)
... Dysfunctional even ... -- thinking they were invincible, the lackadaisical attitude on defense, the horrible playcalling and use of weapons, being kinda spoiled, players seemed to be expecting things to bounce their way and just happen automatically with ease for them ...

You mean, without Payton, they've become, <gasp>, the Falcons? :lol:, say it isn't so! J/K and point taken, I appreciate the perspective, :mrgreen:.

BusDriver 11-30-2012 10:34 AM

Re: Brees letting the team down
 
Graham penalty & Moore drop were big, if both those hadn't happened it would have been 21-17 at one point. It didn't happen that way, those that could have helped take the pressure off Brees didn't, they made mistakes too. It was a team loss & no one was perfect, but the defense played pretty good for the most part. I wish Harper would wrap up guys instead of shoulder tackling but he's a pro & I'm a fan.

Jamessr 11-30-2012 10:38 AM

Re: Brees letting the team down
 
you wouldn think this is the 70's because freaking carmicheal isn't speaking to drew over the mic in his helmet. I don't even know why that guy shows up to work

UK_WhoDat 11-30-2012 12:41 PM

Re: Brees letting the team down
 
It is always the TEAM that wins and the TEAM that loses. Just that in Saints recent history often times Brees gets the plaudits when we win more so than the TEAM or any other individual.

So I think it is fair also to look at Brees and / or other on-field captains and / or the coaches holding clipboards on the sidelines when we lose. And in this game and the one last week, Brees is at least highly contributory to our losses.

Did you read what I said
Quote:

in this game and the one last week
.
I did not say he was no good for our TEAM now or at any time previously. He messed up in those 2 games and there shoud be no "ifs", "buts" etc about other games because I am talking about 2 games in particular.
It is a real shame because he helped pull us back into an unlikely chance for play-offs but in a flash put us out.

Budsdrinker 11-30-2012 01:50 PM

Re: Brees letting the team down
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BusDriver (Post 461603)
Graham penalty & Moore drop were big, if both those hadn't happened it would have been 21-17 at one point. It didn't happen that way, those that could have helped take the pressure off Brees didn't, they made mistakes too. It was a team loss & no one was perfect, but the defense played pretty good for the most part. I wish Harper would wrap up guys instead of shoulder tackling but he's a pro & I'm a fan.

The problem with the Graham penalty is that play is a timing screen to Sproles.
For whatever reason Drew held the ball an extra second and Graham had his back towards the play. He couldn't see that the ball wasn't already thrown which is why it was a penalty. If Drew throws that ball 1/2 second sooner, it becomes a block not a penalty. It was a real ticky tack call because it didn't effect the play but by rule Graham couldn't touch the defender while the ball is in the air. But again Drew was late on throws all night.

SapperSaint 11-30-2012 02:01 PM

Re: Brees letting the team down
 
This was just an ugly game. PT was the only bright spot during the game.

The defense STILL can't tackle and weithout Sean, Drew is lost.

I am not giving up on the season, but I am so ready for Sean to be back.

NonieT 11-30-2012 02:06 PM

Re: Brees letting the team down
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NOS2SB (Post 461474)
The only person to blame for this loss is Drew Brees. The defense did exceptional.

Drew's not the only person to blame. Some of it is on Carmichael's shoulders; him and his pedestrian play calling! He needs to not abandon the run, especially when its working. This is the second week in the row he's done that and as a result Drew has to throw the ball more than he needs to.


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