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sainttommy 12-11-2012 11:02 AM

Archie question for all the older WhoDats
 
I have found that this is a pretty sensitive subject but I need a distraction from current events. I was hoping some of the older fans can educate me.

What is up with Archie Manning fans, they are everywhere?

I think i am in the minority but I think its one of the worst jerseys I have seen worn at the games and around town... the old #8 retro jersey.He might be the worst QB with at least 100 starts EVER. He never had a winning season.

Why do we still keep this guy on a platform?
Let me back up my position with a few stats:
35-91-3 as a Saint starter (0-10 with other teams)
%55.4 career passing and 115/151 TD/INT ratio
I know he won the MVP but he did it with an 8-8 record, I can only assume it was a down year for the NFL. One excuse I hear all the time was that he had a terrible team and I am not buying it. there is no way that excuse can survive 11 years.

I'm only 32 so I wasn't around for these years but why do we glorify this guy as our "home town hero"?
He was born in MS, Went to Ole Miss, I am not sure if he still lives in NOLA but I know he has a condo in MS. His kids went to Tenn and Ole Miss. I am starting to think the only reason he hangs around New Orleans is because this is where fans support him and he can still squeeze a few pennies out of New Orleans off of his name through merchandise and his restaurant.

In my eyes he was the reason for the Saints having those terrible years. The argument I always get into is "you had to see him play". I am pretty sure blackout rules applied and unless you went to the games (not many did back then) no one saw Archie play unless they were away.
Not to mention the stats lead me to believe it was painful to watch him play.

I am a Saints fan until I die regardless of record but I'm not an Archie fan because to me he put the Saints in a hole for 11 years and held us back, so I am asking older whodats to educate me on why I am still seeing the Archie jerseys being worn so proudly.

I know he still does philanthropy with his sons in the city and thats great but this city is the only reason he is relevant, and he owes a lot to New Orleans. But concentrate more on the football player and not the philanthropist.

Help me understand.

aintasinner 12-11-2012 11:28 AM

Re: Archie question for all the older WhoDats
 
He was a great football player. He was surrounded by massive ineptitude. Constantly changing coaching staff, horrid management, and a bunch of untalented, washed up players as a supporting cast, for the most part anyways. The fact that he was chosen as league MVP in a year that the Saints went 8-8, is a testament to the respect he earned around the league. He truly was the most valuable person on his team. If you had ever seen him play, you wouldn't be asking these questions. He took a beating over and over again but he never pointed fingers at others and he was always humble when accepting accolades for a great performance. The man was a class act. He does still have a home in New Orleans. Believe me, his win loss record is not indicative of his playing ability and efforts. Try to get some highlight reels of Archie as a Saint, ( I don't know where); I think that will help you understand why Archie is still considered the ultimate Saint by many.

TheOak 12-11-2012 11:32 AM

Re: Archie question for all the older WhoDats
 
Same question as the OP but insert Edwin Edwards name.

lumm0x 12-11-2012 12:01 PM

Re: Archie question for all the older WhoDats
 
aintasinner summed it up pretty good. He was the lone bright spot on a terrible franchise and struggled through everything with class and poise. As said, for him to get league MVP says it all. We were a 1-15 without him for sure. He did reside in the garden district and raised the kids there, contributed largely to the NOLA community, was a large part of the broadcast growth. He's a guy who came to New Orleans, made it his home, won the fans and general population through just being a good person, a still acts as an ambassador for the city who adopted him. What's not to like besides how he acted in the Eli/San Diego thing?

aintasinner 12-11-2012 12:16 PM

Re: Archie question for all the older WhoDats
 
There are several books available on the early history of the Saints. Try to read up on the Archie years. Not only was it possible for a team to be horrible for 11 years, it was a reality. The Saints history will help you understand why. Unlike Drew Brees, who has had only one head coach, except this year, by the time Archie was in his 7th year as a Saint, he had about a dozen or more head coaches and as many if not more offensive coordinators. Look at what has happened to the Saints this year and multiply that by about 12 and you get the picture of why the Saints were so very bad.

Saint_LB 12-11-2012 12:19 PM

Re: Archie question for all the older WhoDats
 
It would take too long to explain from an obviously biased Ole Miss fan...and you don't want to hear it.

I can remember one thing regarding the Archie era, however. I remember the debates going on as to whether he would be good if he played somewhere else. I also remember Mecom being pretty tight with the purse strings. What I was gonna say, though, is that right about the time that the people in NO were wondering if it was time for a change and the Archie fans definitely were curious, there was rumor that the Rams, then in LA, wanted to trade for Archie, but John Robinson was quoted as saying, "They want Newport Beach for him!"

UK_WhoDat 12-11-2012 01:16 PM

Re: Archie question for all the older WhoDats
 
Briefly

GUTS.


Epitome of waht we look up to, in everything we do.

Budsdrinker 12-11-2012 01:53 PM

Re: Archie question for all the older WhoDats
 
There was no free agency back then and expansion franchises didn't get multiple top picks. You got the wash up players who were great in their prime but their prime was 5 years ago. Mecom was a rich kid but didn't have a clue on running a football team and there were countless mistakes on player decisions. Go to this link and keep clicking year by year and see how many players you ever heard of.1971 New Orleans Saints Statistics & Players - Pro-Football-Reference.com

SloMotion 12-11-2012 03:41 PM

Re: Archie question for all the older WhoDats
 
I wasn't a Saint fan back then, but I knew who Archie Manning was. He took a licking and kept on ticking ... when you were playing sandlot ball & you wanted everyone to know you were toughing it out at QB, you called out, "Archie Manning". Respect.

When Peyton entered the league, and later Eli, I always said the NFL would make sure those boys win a few SuperBowls as a reward to their father for all those years he toughed it out in New Orleans. Speculation on my part, of course.

You did the right thing by asking ... it was a different era back then & you weren't always judged on your stats.

onebyone 12-11-2012 03:52 PM

Re: Archie question for all the older WhoDats
 
"We were an awful team back then, but we had Archie and that was good enough for me." - my dad

SaintsBro 12-11-2012 04:05 PM

Re: Archie question for all the older WhoDats
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sainttommy (Post 464432)
I am pretty sure blackout rules applied and unless you went to the games (not many did back then) no one saw Archie play unless they were away.

Well you weren't around then, but you'd be surprised. Typically a lot of times only a small number of Saints games would "black out" and not be on TV, usually late in the season. There were plenty of Saints home games on TV. Sometimes on the radio only, but not that often. A lot of times as a little kid I remember being STUCK watching the miserable Saints on TV, because at times they'd be the only game on the television, AT ALL. Then at 3:00 there'd usually be this really great AFC game on the other channel, that was always like, so much more exciting compared to the Saints! The Madden Raiders and stuff.

The footage that you see all the time, of the empty seats in the Dome and the bag heads, which is what you are obviously thinking of -- that was from the 1-13 season. But attendance was not always THAT horrendous during most of those years.

It was also different back then, in that it wasn't ALL season tickets -- people could buy tickets for individual games, and often did. There'd often be this media thing on TV during the week, where the sports commentators would say, "only X number of tickets are remaining to be sold, to lift the blackout on the Saints this coming week," and then people or local companies would go scurrying out to buy them. It wasn't like seasons were sold out a whole year in advance, like they are now.

jeanpierre 12-11-2012 04:05 PM

Re: Archie question for all the older WhoDats
 
He was as good as there ever was - the rest of the Saints players, coaches, staff, and owner were that freaking awful...

Boutte 12-11-2012 04:20 PM

Re: Archie question for all the older WhoDats
 
I hated Manning coming out of college because he killed LSU when they had some of their best teams. I hated him all the way through training camp and pre-season. Then he beat the Rams, who were at that time our most hated rivals. on the last play of the game. From then on he was the man. At one time he was the most sacked QB in the history of the game. But he just kept getting up and giving it everything he had. And he had a lot.

WhoDat!656 12-11-2012 05:24 PM

Re: Archie question for all the older WhoDats
 
I believe it was Terry Bradshaw that said if Archie Manning played for the Steelers, he would have won multiple Super Bowls.

I remember when, at the end of his career, the Saints traded Archie to the Oilers, and he said it broke his heart.

http://www.profootballresearchers.or.../25-01-968.pdf

lee909 12-11-2012 05:34 PM

Re: Archie question for all the older WhoDats
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aintasinner (Post 464450)
There are several books available on the early history of the Saints. Try to read up on the Archie years. Not only was it possible for a team to be horrible for 11 years, it was a reality. The Saints history will help you understand why. Unlike Drew Brees, who has had only one head coach, except this year, by the time Archie was in his 7th year as a Saint, he had about a dozen or more head coaches and as many if not more offensive coordinators. Look at what has happened to the Saints this year and multiply that by about 12 and you get the picture of why the Saints were so very bad.

Could you give me the name of them books please.
Im pretty new as a Saints fan so anything to do with Saints history is great for me.

WhoDat!656 12-11-2012 05:54 PM

Re: Archie question for all the older WhoDats
 
books new orleans saints history - Bing

Joker 12-11-2012 06:23 PM

Re: Archie question for all the older WhoDats
 
I understand why you would ask a question like that especially since all you have is the stat sheets to look at, but for all of us older fans we had to watch this man get the living **** beat out him every Sunday and keep,on going. If you watched Drew take the abuse this man took for years you would be appauled. It seems as though everyone else who replied summed it up for you.

Joker 12-11-2012 06:30 PM

Re: Archie question for all the older WhoDats
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aintasinner (Post 464435)
He was a great football player. He was surrounded by massive ineptitude. Constantly changing coaching staff, horrid management, and a bunch of untalented, washed up players as a supporting cast, for the most part anyways. The fact that he was chosen as league MVP in a year that the Saints went 8-8, is a testament to the respect he earned around the league. He truly was the most valuable person on his team. If you had ever seen him play, you wouldn't be asking these questions. He took a beating over and over again but he never pointed fingers at others and he was always humble when accepting accolades for a great performance. The man was a class act. He does still have a home in New Orleans. Believe me, his win loss record is not indicative of his playing ability and efforts. Try to get some highlight reels of Archie as a Saint, ( I don't know where); I think that will help you understand why Archie is still considered the ultimate Saint by many.

"WELL SAID"

exiled 12-11-2012 09:04 PM

Re: Archie question for all the older WhoDats
 
You simply had to be there.

It is why I will still watch and root with gusto for the rest of this season.

It is not exactly the first time we have been playing at this point in the season as solely a spoiler.

If ya can't root for a team with a losing record than you haven't been a saint fan for very long.

Who dosen't remember being down a trillion to zip and still shouting at the end of the game, "Throw 'em da bomb Archie!"

pumpkindriver 12-12-2012 06:25 AM

Re: Archie question for all the older WhoDats
 
The '78 &'79 seasons were the ones where I really began watching the Saints. I didn't watch much football prior to that but I knew all about Archie, having grown up during the time he was at Ole Miss. We had a good offense at this time with Wes Chandler, Chuck Muncie, Tony Galbreath etc.
Archie just made play after play, he was amazing to watch. Its a shame video technology wasn't very advanced back then so people would have complete games on tape. If you could watch an entire game of him at QB, I think you would really understand why he is still revered by us to this day.

skymike 12-12-2012 07:59 AM

Re: Archie question for all the older WhoDats
 
Im glad you did this thread. One thing this discussion does is bring to light the great guy that Archie is and was as a player. I think it would be a terrible shame for today's generation to not know who and what he was, and why #8 is among our most important numbers.

Good question, and also I like the respectful way it was asked.
Great answers too. I'll add that stats dont tell the story, which is why I have
zero interest in stats. For instance, if you only read the stats on Bobby Hebert, you completely miss out on what a badass he was on the field. (Think Rothlesberger.) Archie in today's era & rules would have racked up stats, and with our current team, would have won big too. He made the Pro Bowl while playing for a loser. If he played today, he would be among the NFL's elite.

There should be a statue of Archie in front of the Dome. Or maybe in Champions Square.


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