Goodell's Accountability
 

Lots of talk about what Goodell's punishment....

I think before you can think about what should happen to him for mishandling Bounty gate, a few things must be determined.

1. Who decides his punishment.
2. Did he mishandle anything in the eyes of the punishing body?
3. In order to answer number 2 you must understand what the end intent of this was.


I know the answers to both questions and here is my take.

1. The owners are the only body to punish Goodell.
2. I don't believe he did anything wrong in their eyes.
3. I do not in good faith believe Bounty Gate had anything to do with player safety, it was an exercise at any cost to give the NFL a "Perceived" action regarding player safety.

CEO's are dealt the hammer and removed from position when the board of directors discover wrong doing or mismanagement. The BoD (Owners), watch this happen every day in front of their very own eyes and did nothing to steer or stop it. That tells me Goodell has their buy in for everything.

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Te jury is still out on this.... Likely until the off season.

:popcorn:

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If Goodell has anything happen to him it will be by the owners and behind closed doors IMO.
At this point he's off the hook and we've lost out on the "what could of been season"

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My own take on it is that if anything public happens it will be a "we've decided we're going in a different direction" type thing, from the owners, behind closed doors; he'll step down, golden parachute, maybe get a job consulting for the league or working in charity. I believe there are owners who are not happy with Goodell, behind the scenes, but you don't voice that type of criticism publicly, you wait until the moment when you have the maximum leverage and opportunity. THEN something will happen.

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You're right about the owners being the only one's who can punish him, and I agree that the main question is whether they feel he did anything wrong. But here's my opinion on their perception of this:

Even if the owners are the one's who had Goodell embark on this witch hunt, the fact is that he has embarrassed himself and the league in the process. Whatever he was trying to accomplish, he failed. I have seen a lot of people posting on here that he in fact DID achieve his goal because of our lost season. But I don't believe that was his goal, even though he undoubtedly hoped it would be a side effect. I think his goal was simply to make somebody look bad, so he could grand stand in their face and make the NFL look like a superior moral institution.

Though opinions are vastly mixed throughout the league, and it's fans, I doubt seriously any rational percentage of people have come away from this believing morality had anything to do with it. They've shown themselves to be disturbingly inconsistent and dishonest, to say the very least. Therefore, his campaign failed.

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A different perspective:

The NFL was founded by businessmen to make money.

Not by fans of the game who wanted to see football flourish first and foremost. If the model for the NFL would have not been profitable there would be no NFL.

Roger acted the way he did (i'm presuming under a directive) to have something to fight against the one thing that stands to suck all of the profit out of the NFL.. Concussion law suits.

Here is the wash... It was at any cost, except financial. Black eye... damaged name... none of that effects profitability in the end. No matter how mad fans get at Goodell, they will still support their team, buy tickets, buy jerseys, etc. This was a minimal financial risk for the reward of having something to show a judge and jury that the NFL is doing everything it can to make the game safer.

We the fans have been suckerpunched... We took the bait.... We hate Goodell but not football or our teams... Goodell was the sacrificial lamb and he is taking all of the anger.. AS DESIGNED.

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Brees turns up heat on Goodell

Drew Brees isn't ready to let it go, and on Wednesday he upped the ante from his Tuesday Twitter criticism. [Brees] took dead aim at the NFL front office and Commissioner Roger Goodell as he leveled harsh criticism for how the case was mishandled from start to finish, saying there was much more interest in achieving an outcome than making certain the process was fair and correct. ... "What I would like to see is the level of accountability on the part of the NFL and Commissioner Goodell in regards to the mishandling of this entire situation," Brees said. "We as players hold ourselves to very strict code of conduct on and off the field. We have to be accountable to that as it should be. I feel they should be held to the same standards."

Brees turns up heat on Goodell

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Roger wants to act like the player's daddy. The first thing a parent does is set a good example.

Roger=Fail

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I'm not sure if this was a reply to my post above, but if it is, there is one central point I was making, and it tells why I disagree with you here. I understood that in your original post you were implying that the owners wanted Roger to save them money. But I'm saying he failed to do so.

What you are saying, is that because fans will still go to, and watch games, that no harm has been done. I agree that fans will still be there, but that is not remotely what I was referring to. I'm talking specifically about the retirees lawsuit. We all know, regardless if anyone put him up to it, that Roger's witch hunt had everything to do with grand standing toward that lawsuit.

But he has effectively humiliated himself and the league, with how everything turned out, and so no image of morality or caring about player safety has truly been established. They are no better, and probably considerably worse off then they were before in their case against the retired players now. Mission failed. That is my point.

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I was replying to that...

In the courtroom when the concussion cases are being heard... No one will ever see evidence to anything but the NFL putting an end to systemic bounty programs...

Humiliation, public opinion, image, will play no part... Those are subjective terms and cant be used with out objections. For every subjective negative opinion someone else can give a subjective positive opinion. Damage to public opinion is not quantifiable.

The league will present evidence of ending systemic bounty programs.... which is what they set out to do.

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Sports Center reported that Roger Goodell was a "victim" of a botched investigation and went off the information given to him...

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I understand what you're saying, but you seem to be putting a great deal of emphasis on just the PR part of things. When I say that no one comes out of this believing in this moral face the NFL tried to put on, I'm not just talking about how people view their character.

The reason for all this crap was to make it look like they didn't know about this going on in the league for so long, and now they suddenly find out (supposedly) and they're pissed, and they won't stand for it. That's what they want the court to believe. But again, this whole saga has done nothing but expose their hypocrisy. Everyone can see that they were desperate and grasping for air.

Couple this with the the fact that Goodell had insisted a few years back that concussions were not linked to long term brain damage (I always knew they were linked, and I haven't spent a day in my life studying that crap) and the court will see that this guy has a pattern of lying, or ignoring the truth and then going on some campaign to try to cover his a**. Public perception is very bad for him, but I am well aware that it has no bearing on legal matters, which is why my point is about how the COURT will perceive him. I don't think he had a prayer of winning that case anyway, which is why he went crazy with this bounty crap, but now his odds are even lower.

The court is not going to fall for this idea of "well they stopped bounties". That has nothing to do with retired players. They will see this as a disingenuous tact to appear that they were/are concerned about player safety. You say the NFL's objective was to end systematic bounties, but I think we both know that's just a side effect. It was nothing but a facade. But by singling out one team, and having been proven to be loose with the facts to get said team, they did not accomplish a thing. They never proved that they stopped anything, by not proving it really existed in the Saints organization. All we have is hearsay, and that most assuredly will not fly in the court of law. That much has proven true, already.

For years the NFL implemented all kinds of new rules and policies, including free agency, in order to create parity in the league. In one fell swoop, Goodell managed to destroy the Saints chances of being competitive by taking away players, draft picks and coaches, and thereby causing them to put a poor product on the field. Goodell is bad for the league and bad for the future of the nfl. He has a personal agenda to project himself as someone bigger than the game. He needs to go.

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You have got to be kidding?

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PR means nothing to me, its all about showing evidence that a major step has been taken to eradicate bounty programs in court.

You have misunderstood all of my postings on this topic... The NFLs driver for all of this was to have evidence to present in court... Bounty's ending is just a side effect.

What i said was that the NFL will frame this in court as an effort to "end systemic bounty's".

When it comes to court rooms and this topic, all the NFL has to exhibit is a modicum of responsibility. Going above and beyond is not required. "Reasonable effort" is what helps.

Does this clear them of any culpability? Most certainly not... It does show a reasonable effort which MAY get them a reduced pay out.

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I have not misunderstood anything. You specifically told me that no matter what the league has done, people will still watch football. I don't care about the fans perspective. Bounties are not what cause concussions. Football itself is a violent sport, and lots of injuries occur. A disingenuous so called "effort" to end bounties doesn't do a damn thing to make up for the fact the league lied about concussions. Why should any court care what the league did AFTER it lied? These lawsuits were filed well before bountygate.

In order for this sham of an investigation to have any bearing on those lawsuits, the league would have had to prove that they never knew these things had been going on for years. Instead they acted like they just found out, and proceeded to go on a witch hunt. They presented nothing but hearsay for 9 months, and now Roger's rulings have been largely thrown out. You consider this a win for the NFL? Do you honestly believe they accomplished anything, with all that said? I don't. Don't tell me I don't understand your posts. I understand clearly what your opinion is. What I don't understand is HOW you can believe the NFL has somehow proven anything to any court. These lawsuits don't henge on anything that happens today. They are about what has already taken place, that the NFL ignored for many years.

You and I agree that the NFL is responsible for it's transgressions. I simply don't agree that this current BS against the Saints will help them at all. There's no way it could after everything they've botched.

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His cardinal sin is hes hurting the product Oak, and their by reducing the office of Commisioner, or CEO if you want to call it as it is, to look like a lauphing stock. No CEO can do that and suvive.
The BOD will axe you.
Truthfully I would not be suprised if the BOD of the NFL are not seeking legal counsel to let him go for breach of contract. Just in case this gets worse.
Its a solid move on their part.
After all you have to think. Someone told Goodell to step down with the bounty case. He never did that on his own. That was decided for him.

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I've read through this thread several times and for the life of me, I can't see where anybody doesn't make a valid point ... or two. I gotta' hand it to you guys, you all know your sh@t & how to present it, :mrgreen:.

People around me wonder how I'm able to discuss the in's & out's of this situation so completely ... it's right here. I get 99% of my real information on the subject right here.

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A victim my rear end. As Goodell is really ruining the game for a lot of people, including me. As he really needs to know who to suspend like with drugs, violence, etc. And not whom to suspend. To eliminate stuff like kickoffs as that would make the game less exciting!

A victim my rear end! Goodell is a joke!

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Bounty Gate was a convenient lightning rod for the league. The lawsuits over concussions were looming on the horizon. The NFL had to do something to give the "world" the impression they were concerned about player safety. Enter the Greg Williams and his traveling bounty circus and presto!!! Just what the doctor ordered!!

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I think the fans of New Orleans is his executioner.

I said this for months, he steps foot in New Orleans, hes a dead mean, someone will shoot him.

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What is not being taken into consideration in your reply is that the BoD (Board of Directors/Owners) is directing him. While you and I perceive the changes Goodell is proposing to the game as destroying the product.

Kickoff rules changed by Goodell (Goodell was told to do so by the owners)
NFL votes to change rules for kickoffs, replay - ESPN

Changes to pads possibly coming.
https://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/...FL-Owners.aspx

18 game season people are blistering Goodell for
Roger Goodell: NFL targets 2012 for 18-game season - ESPN

OT Rules change
Owners vote to adopt playoff OT rules in regular season - NFL.com

The CEO that survives.... and it allowed to destroy the product is the CEO that is doing the bidding of the Board...

With a laundry list of Goodell actions and talking points having been proven to originated with the owners... Why would you think Bounty Gate is the soul exception?

This is ALL about profitability and reducing liability in court. Every single change from Goodell (via the owners) is about making money and reducing the risk of losing that money. The NFL was founded by people wanting to make money off of sports.

"New Coke" should have ended the career of Roberto C. Goizueta in 1985 but it didn't, he stayed CEO until 1997 when he died.


You see things differently than I have laid them out for you because that is what you are meant to see, Goodell = meat shield for Owners. The only reason I see things differently is because I have experience and know what The Wizard behind the curtain really looks like and have seen the plans of perception laid out.

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Who is the owners behind it?

Which are the main culprits?

my guess is owners of the big market teams pulling the strings, someone like Jerry Jones.

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From experience its not 2 or 3... Its not 5 or 11 it is at a bare minimum 17 owners. Majority vote is the only way things happen, this prevents rogue owners or small pockets of owners from doing their own thing.

Also trust me on this.... NO vote is called before the group knows the out come before hand.

It is stated here also...
2011 NFL lockout -- Owners, players come to deal on all points, sources say - ESPN

"Just as the NFL would not have called a vote Thursday in Atlanta without knowing it would pass in the way it did -- 31-0 with one abstention"

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I do not think Roger was directed by the owners to do this. At best he sent them misinformation to get them to go along with this under the guise of player safety and to hopefully get some concessions after all the law suits come to the courts. Even then I think it will have little impact on the cases that are pending. Goodell did this out of malice for the Saints organization and for some personal reasons that we may never know. I am just hopefull that enough stick will come off of this that the owners will have to make a move. Even then this man will get a golden parachute that He does not deserve but at least I would not have to look at His face again.

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So you think the NFL Owners are dolts? Think they would be lead down a path such as we have seen by one man?

Your telling me that people like Jerry Jones, Author Blank, Steve Biscoitti, Robert McNair... Peoples who net worth exceed $1B would just let Roger Goodell just play with their billion dollar franchises? or their +100B league?

No Sir... These are not men with a normal to high gullibility factor. They knew, and they have had the power to put the brakes on it each and every day since it started.

Don't let your hatred for Goodell lead you to think he pulled this all off by him self.

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I wish I could have been in the meeting where Benson was told he was gonna have to take one for the team this time.

I wonder which owner it was that told him that, or something to that effect anyway. Jerrah? The Great Roger Goodell Himself Live and In Person?

If everything is as scripted as it certainly feels sometimes, then Benson has known for a while how this whole thing was gonna play out, cause its his $$ on the line as well

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I suspect... Or the way I would have framed it would be like this.
note: When you sit around billionaires you give them the dirty... they are smart enough to figure the rest out.

"Here is the dirty Tom, take one for the shield quietly so we have at least SOMETHING to fight lawsuits with, or leave us with nothing and eventually lose the 978mm value of your team in the long run".. "and go back to selling cars"

"yea... that... the vote.... so far Tom I suppose the count would be 31-1 in our favor"

"I agree this is just like being in prison, you can take it quietly or you can scream.. either way, you are getting it dry".

"If you take it quietly I am sure we can all spare a contribution to your cause".


New Orleans Saints on the Forbes NFL Team Valuations List


All 31 teams owners have broken it off in someones arse to get where they are and KNOW how the game is played. (Packers are publicly owned)


War is not as brutal and bloody as big business.

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I am kind of with you on this, things in this league have seem scripted.

But its been like this before Goodell and to me its felt like this since the late 90s after the NFL put the Salary caps in place the way they have.

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I dunno about the Packers being publicly owned. I think all of that was Grade A Fraud.

But now going back to the Owners, one would question also this..........how much influence does Coaches and Staff have on the Owners of a team?

I venture to say plenty.

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Coaches and staff influence Owners of NFL teams? As much as managers in a privately owned grocery store have over the owner (in this type of scenario).... Depends on the owner, but I would guess employees that are able to influence the owner of a business are not as prevalent as you would assume... At some point in the org chart the transparency stops, and the calculated message is delivered.

This is pure speculation on my part: There are 3 people who are quiet about Bounty Gate, and have been pretty much very quiet about the whole thing in comparison to the rest. Tom Benson, Mickey Loomis, Sean Payton...

Who influences Jerry Jones? Not the coaches, team, or the fans.

Packers publicly owned is fraud?
Green Bay Packers Board of Directors - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Guess you are right about the owner's being complicit with this whole deal and you are right I hate the man and want to see him out. Should know it is all about the money and greed. Anyway I hope all of the owners gain very little from this and get hammered. Shame the game and our season had to be compromised because of this, Speaks volumes about the real motives and lack of integrity of the NFL and their owners.

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Hopefully Tom is sitting back, "taking one for the team", knowing that Goodell will be "taking one for the team" as well, when they fire his opie looking arse!

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Other than a follow-up trip to NY by himself (which still puzzles me, mainly WHY and WHAT came of it), Benson has kept very quiet about this, and other than playing a concert with a pretty high-profile musician who was wearing a "Free Sean Payton" shirt, Sean and Mickey have kept their heads down and quiet. If that's not following what The Great Roger Goodell Himself Live and In Person told them to do from the get-go, I don't know what is.

tl;dr - I'm not holding my breath that we get our 2nd rounder back, but its hard to argue that Benson, Loomis, and Payton haven't kept a respectable silence about this whole debacle/charade, as directed by rog 5 months ago

If we get the pick back they will announce it just before the championship hip games IMO.They will want to pacify the fans and they will want to time it right.

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great point

Owners or no owners, Goodell is a jackhole. He is weak if he allowed the owners to create and impose the punishments without proper evidence. Or if he created and imposed the punishments on his own (perhaps with owner approval), then he has terrible judgement. Again, either way, he's a jackhole.

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Godhell is making the owners more money than ever. He's golden unless Vilma keeps this thing going for a whole lot longer.

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Attendance has been at a steady decline since he took over. Not a big deal with the TV contracts but certainly don't want to be panning out to huge voids of empty seats. He has also lost some battles that cost the owners...the refs, the suspensions, and there may be more to come. Add the extra bodyguards, it starts adding up to ten of millions, maybe more before it's all said and done. I know he's a projection of them but if he loses the defamation case they are going to start thinking hard about moving on.