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Saints' secondary will not be downfall of this team

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; All offseason I've heard how the Saints secondary is going to be the down-fall of the Saints. I've heard how the CBs are too short. I've heard how slow the CB's were. I've heard how when teams need to pass ...

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Old 08-23-2004, 11:38 PM   #1
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Saints' secondary will not be downfall of this team

All offseason I've heard how the Saints secondary is going to be the down-fall of the Saints. I've heard how the CBs are too short. I've heard how slow the CB's were. I've heard how when teams need to pass they'll have little trouble. And I've heard, time and time again, how we need to sign Mike McKenzie.

Well, let me tell you something. The way to stop the pass isn't by having shut-down CBs. The way to stop the pass is by having a great pass rush.

If anyone should know this it should be Saints fans. At least those old enough to have watched the Dome Patrol. During those days we consistently were at the top of the league in LEAST points allowed. And our CBs were not exactly house-hold names. And that's putting it kindly !!

Now, you can say that having great CBs allows the defense to do more things. And you're right. But, there's going to be weaknesses somewhere. Having a pro-bowl saftety allows the defense to do more things. Having probowl defesive tackles allows the defense to do more things. You get the point, right?

And did anyone happen to watch the Panthers defense lead them to the Super Bowl? The ONLY reason the Panthers held up against the passing teams was because of their pass rush.

I believe we have the players that are going to get to the opposing team's QB this year. Will Smith, Darren Howard, and Charles Grant should make our secondary much improved. I see QB's getting rid of the ball much quicker than they want to.

Given the choice between a great pass rush or shut-down CBs, I'll take a great pass rush everytime.
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Old 08-24-2004, 02:19 AM   #2
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Saints' secondary will not be downfall of this team

I can agree with you... but we still have Ashley Ambrose. You have to have at least average or better than average CB\'s. Even GB knows to go at Ambrose whereever Ambrose is... dump the ball off there. Go at ambrose and you move the ball. I suspect and pray they start Craft at the begining of the season... this guy was a great pick up. You\'ll see if only they start him, please tell me they are trying to keep him a secret til then.
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Old 08-24-2004, 07:57 AM   #3
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Saints' secondary will not be downfall of this team

I suspect and pray they start Craft at the begining of the season... this guy was a great pick up. You\'ll see if only they start him, please tell me they are trying to keep him a secret til then.
I think he\'s still a little behind the learning curve. But he should easily take over AA\'s spot early in the season.
I\'d also feel better with Brown as a #2 also, from what I\'ve seen and read so far.

I still feel we\'ll pick up a CB from some teams final cut, or trade one of our WR/DT/DE\'s for one.
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Old 08-24-2004, 09:44 AM   #4
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Saints' secondary will not be downfall of this team

\"Saints\' secondary will not be downfall of this team\"

Well, now, I\'m not so sure about that. There is no question in my mind right now that they will be a contributing factor. IF the offense plays like it should, and IF the run defense lives up to the hype, then yes, absolutely, the secondary will be the biggest problem on this team. If that stops the Saints from being successful then I would classify it as \"the downfall of this team.\" The offense and run D have to improve first though. They\'re both bigger problems from what I\'ve seen and heard of preseason than anything else.

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Old 08-24-2004, 09:51 AM   #5
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Saints' secondary will not be downfall of this team

I agree with what Billy said however, one thing a good pass rush forces a quarterback to do is dump the ball off to either a back coming out of the back field or throw quick slant patterns......this responsibility for coverage will require quick, talented and experienced linebackers....how many of those do we currently have??
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Old 08-24-2004, 10:47 AM   #6
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Saints' secondary will not be downfall of this team

...or you throw a qucik slant or curl to whomever ambrose is covering and eat us alive because all he is going to do is either let them catch the ball in front of him or get beat deep one on one.
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Old 08-24-2004, 11:02 AM   #7
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Saints' secondary will not be downfall of this team

you\'re right billy, a good pass rush is what we need, except during the dome patrol days we had excellent linebackers, as well as front 4.... and i believe everyone will agree with me when i say that we dont have any linebackers as good as the ones we had back then....
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Old 08-24-2004, 11:11 AM   #8
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Saints' secondary will not be downfall of this team

you\'re right billy, a good pass rush is what we need, except during the dome patrol days we had excellent linebackers, as well as front 4.... and i believe everyone will agree with me when i say that we dont have any linebackers as good as the ones we had back then....
I\'m not going to \"sugar coat\" it, the linebackers are a BIG concern for me. Moreso in thier ability to stop the run than blitz the QB, though. We ran a 3-4 with the dome patrol. The linebackers brought the heat in the 3-4. Not so with the 4-3.

Our pressure will come from our DE\'s. Darren Howard (10+ sack guy), Charles Grant (10 sacks last season), and Will Smith (This guy is going to get some sack this year.)

I think the probility of our DE\'s to apply pressure is pretty good. Then IF we can stop the run, it\'s going to allow us to really bring the heat.

A lot is going to depend on if Venturi is going to be more aggressive. We\'ve got the players to do that, IMO. I just have the feeling that we\'re going to be a more aggressive defense this year. Of course, I thought that last year too. But, injuries kind of derailed that opportunity and Venturi was forced to do what he had to do. We\'ll see.
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Old 08-24-2004, 11:22 AM   #9
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Saints' secondary will not be downfall of this team

I think the probility of our DE\'s to apply pressure is pretty good. Then IF we can stop the run, it\'s going to allow us to really bring the heat.

thats true, but i dont think we can stop the run... to stop the run u need good linebackers and a push from the middle and until sullivan proves his worth then we just dont have that.... while i like our Dline and the rush we will get from them i still think that we wont stop anyone from running it down our throat.
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Old 08-24-2004, 11:59 AM   #10
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Saints' secondary will not be downfall of this team

Ok, so I\'m thinking about this, and I\'m starting to wonder how to classify \"biggest downfall\". To get the gist of this, I started thinking about the positions on the team. Of course, Billy meant this statement to mean \"barring injuries the CBs will not be the downfall.\" Thus, here is a list from least likely to be a downfall to most likely to be a downfall.

1. HB - Duece, nuff said.

2. FB - This position is not critical enough to ever be a \"downfall\"

3. TE - TEs can enhance a team, but rarely does not havning a good one = downfall

4. DE - We are so deep and strong here that \"downfall\" isn\'t anywhere near them

5. DT - This is a position where other players (LBs and DEs) can make up for troubles
more easily than elsewhere, so I don\'t think that this can be a \"downfall\" pos.
Also, we\'re not bad here, we\'re just not really good.

6. OLB - We\'re not as bad here as people make out (though Hodge\'s suspension hurts our experience level here), but we could start D. Smith and D. Rogers for the first few games and be fine.

7. S - We\'re a little thin here, but Bellamy and Jones are solid or above average. This will not be a downfall position.

8. OL - We\'ve got good players here, the question really is more like \"can they gell and
learn their new positions before the season starts?\" I should probably have put
these guys a bit higher, but that GB game gave me the willies.

9. ILB - Now, normally, like DTs MLBs can be protected in the defensive scheme by Ss and OLBs, so it is not a prime \"downfall\" position; however, we really need to stop the run, and this will require LBs and DL to be solid. I think, of the run stopping group ILB is the biggest question mark, and thus most likely to be called a downfall when things go badly.

10. WR - We\'ve got great athletes, proven players, and ton of potential future stars.
HOWEVER, they seem to get the dropsies way to easily; they hurt us last year,
and I see no reason to think that they won\'t hurt us again this year. Also, with
all the expectations, these guys will be seeing the ball a lot, and that increases
the impact they will have if they play badly. They\'re primed to be a downfall.

11. QB - This is a position that is prime for the \"downfall\" tag. I think AB\'s improvement
over the last few years, gives us reason to feel very good. However, a QB is a
guy who can make or break a game in one decision, unlike so many other
positions.

12. CB - A position where you are in the spotlight, also, like the QB, one bad move can really hurt a team. We have some serious question marks here, our vetrans (other than Thomas) do not inspire much confidence (unlike at the OLB position), and when we\'re saying F. Brown (who has started what two or three games) is our #2, I\'d say we have reason for concern. Even with a good to great pass rush, it only takes one or two well timed hots and a good WR to make a weak secondary give up 3-14 points. I\'d say, even if these guys were good, CB is a critical position to a good defense - thus, they are primed to be a \"downfall position\".

Alright, so for those of you still reading, I\'d say the only positions that are really open for the downfall tag are these: CB, QB (though personally, I\'m not that worried here), WR, ILB, and OL. So, if it is not CB that will not be the downfall unit this year (barring injuries), which one will it be?


[Edited on 24/8/2004 by JKool]

[Edited on 24/8/2004 by JKool]

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