Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 

... because the offense had above-average talent? Insert a couple of talents on this defense in key positions, like say a Charles Tillman, a Clay Matthews and/or a JJ Watt and you have a totally different outcome.

I just think it's short-sighted to want to replace a D/C after such an offseason/season and especially doing it just because your players don't like the guy.

Who's running the asylum? The inmates? I'd get rid of a few disgruntled, anonymous and undoubtedly marginal talents on defense before I ****canned a coordinator, just sayin'.

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 

I think Spags gets another year with payton but man that would be awesome.

First, I'd like to go on record as saying that Rick Venturi is the worst D Coordinator that we've ever had, not Spags, despite the infortunate "record".

I didn't like the Spags hiring at the beginning of the year - I felt that we disnt have the right personnel to fit his schemes and philosophy. In time, i started seeing some hope and some good play from the defense. The jury's still out on him, but I have a feeling Payton's input will fix a lot of things.

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 

That is one aspect people are starting to forget about Spags' situation. If he would have had a normal offseason (that includes his HC and his GM) things would have been different believe me.

Its hard for you to pick up FA's to compliment when you don't have the 2 most important people there to OK that move or know who the f*** your boss is going to be that week. Spags was pretty much given a bag of scraps that had a note that said "IOU next season" on it from the Saints organization.

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 

Okay, we'll revisit why Sean Payton is a Good Coach and why others have the Jim Mora System Syndrome...

cue Golden Light, Angels Harmony

***You build your system around the guys you have and put them in the best position for success***

I like Spagnulo, but the Defense has been inconsistent in its improvement and he should be released...

However, Coach will probably want to work with him at least one season before reaching that conclusion...

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 

I didn't think you could even fit that name on a jersey, but I guess you can, :lol:

http://lp.imageg.net/prod?set=key[na...tomback.chain]

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 

Maybe Payton will cane him in front of the team.
Over all the team was like a high school kid being left unsupervised by his parents for a weekend...look at the play calling on offence, poor special teams play...everything was just willy nilly.
Give Spags a year under big daddy SP and see what he can do. I'm optimistic.

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 

I think that I'd be one of those people in the minority who'd be pissed off if Spags was canned - probably because I really wanted for the Saints to hire him and was very vocal about it, and I don't like to be proven wrong. ;-)

But, with all the unlearning the players had to go through after all the garbage GW had been shoving down their throats during his tenure - next year will undoubtedly be much better and it would be a huge mistake to part ways with Spags at this point in time no matter who'd be available to potentially replace him.

And, the offense had an off year also. They were good, but nowhere near what they can be and will be once again under SP's guidance next season. In a handful of games this season the defense gave the team a chance to play for the win, but the offense dropped the ball - quite literally - and that is why I don't understand why suddenly a losing record is entirely on the shoulders of Spags?!

Oh, and I do fully agree with canning McMahon's a$$... that has been the case for years now.

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 

If you accept the argument that Spags system works and we just don't have the players to fit, then after the worst defensive season in history you must also conclude that practically every player will need to be replaced in order for us to succeed with Spags at the helm.

Seriously??? Somebody needs to explain these "systems" to you? Unless you've been living under a rock for the past few years or dont know much about football, it should be obvious. You want examples - here you go .
Spags's successful defenses in NY and StL were built around creating a strong pass rush with just the front four so that the remainig 7 could be used in either coverage or to stop the run. You need AT LEAST one dominant lineman in order to create that element. In StL, Sags had Long, and in NY, he had several. Name ONE D-lineman on the Saints that other teams consider dominant - NONE!! Spags has incorporated the blitz more this year than he normally dooes because of that deficiency.
Williams "system" was to blitz blitz blitz which is because he realized we couldnt create a pass rush with just our front four. Fans that had been calling Smith, Ellis and Franklin "beasts" quit doing so because they realized how ineffective they were. The other part of Williams' system was to get players to strip the ball, which is why our D has been such a crappy tackling unit.
As far as Gibbs is concerned, who knows what the hell he was trying to do. I dont even know if he had a defensive philosophy. He just plain sucked as a D coordinator.

Finally, if you re-read my post, I never blamed the DC for evaluating and acquiring our personnel that we have, so I'm not sure where you came up w that. A a matter of fact, my point is the opposite: I didn't think we had the personnel in place to fit into Spag's defensive philosophy. That being said, I think Spags is doing a decent job of developing some of these players and getting them to understand what he's trying to get them to do. I think we have 1 or 2 D lineman that have the potential to develop into that dominant lineman that we need to make this system more effective.

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 

How so?

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 

Did any of you guys read what Lofton had to say? He kinda hinted that this anonymous player is just too dumb to figure it out.
I wonder if it was Sed Elis?

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 

Well, as far as your original comment goes...



I also agree that it is based on faulty logic, because even if one accepts the argument that Spags' system works and that the Saints' personnel just didn't fit into that system, it would be a stretch to conclude based on that that they need to practically replace every player in order to get Spags' system to work next season.

Players learn and unlearn new/old playing styles and habits and adapt to new situations, just like everyone of us has the ability to adapt to new situations in our lives and careers. Therefore, I think that even though the defensive personnel might not have fitted perfectly Spags' system this year - it doesn't necessarily mean that they won't fit it come next season, if not perfectly then in all probability at least somewhat better.

I think that they only need few key additions and subtractions on some important positions on the defense along with the learning curve already starting to plateau as far as most players are concerned - and they can be a very effective defensive unit next season. That along with the offense playing like they should, which wasn't the case in every game this past season, and the Saints will be playoff and Super Bowl bound next season without having to make any wholesale purging of the defensive roster.

And just to conclude, you shouldn't use superlatives like "you must also conclude" when talking about correlations and deductions/inductions based on very limited evidence - as was the case with your argument - because one can rarely make a convincing argument when trying to force the reader to come to a certain conclusion without letting them do it for themselves.

Just my 2 cents... :-)

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 

Just my 2 cents;

No matter the coach nor "system", the basic fundamental of tackling should be a prerequisite of being a professional football player.

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 

I saw more out of Spag's system then GW's. Even with how terrible they were- I saw more from his system. The game where Drew threw 5 int's against the Falcons I think we had 5 stops in a row of their offense. That's a pretty good offense. I don't think I can remember us ever doing that under GW. Matter of fact all I can remember is watching teams march up and down the field on us and praying for some form of magical turnover to save us again. Just my opinion, but I think we were due some growing pains going to a real system. I saw many bright spots the second half of the season. The biggest issue we had was nothing came together at the same time. If the D was on point the offense was failing. If the D and offense were playing well the ST's **** the bed. I can't wait to see how these guys play next year under his system. Hicks, TJ, and Cam on D-Line have me excited. I like our LB situation a whole lot better than any time under GW. I like 42 back at safety, interested to see if CW keeps improving, and like Mack as a backup. Probably could use a really good corner, but either way I think we have some things to look forward on D.

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 

This, this, this! Tackling was HORRIBLE! That is something that can't be blamed on the system.

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 

But the system taking so long to learn with less time to practice under the new CBA probably contributed to tackling woes.

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 

Our defense is basically stupid and has a tough time running schemes.

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 

But here is where we differ I guess. When your defense is last in NFL history then 'somewhat better' improvements just isn't going to cut it. While we have our entire lives to adapt to our careers, NFL players have at most a few years. Hoping the players will smarten-up or improve due to an offseason is something Haslett would do.

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 

If it is all about the players and having the best than anyone could be a sucessful coach which I dont agree with totally. Good Players have to be disiplined and cover their responsibilities which I know wasn't happening. The question is was it the players fault or was spags not putting them in position to have success I cant really answer that. Only those coaches and players really know what went down. I think Payton will do a lot to fix this and hold spags and or the players accountable again.

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 

So we should run a dumbed-down defense that is comprehensible by the lowest IQs on the team?

Yea.... um that's going to throw opposing QBs into a tizzy

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 

Just my 2 cents, he runs mostly zone and depends heavily on front line talent to apply pressure. LB's are required to cover deeper zones than most and his safeties typically play Left-Right instead of Strong-Free.

Since our front 4 wasn't the best at applying pressure to begin with, and our LB's aren't very good in coverage, and our CB's are better suited for man-to-man and our safeties better suited for Strong-Free, I would probably stay away from a scheme or system that is basically opposite of what your players do best.

At least thats my armchair stab at it.

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 

Before you start calling out members who have been here and had intelligent discussions before you came along, take a deep breath and then Shut UP!:brood:

Seriously, get a feel for the board first.
And while you are at it why don't you fill in the section about me in your profile, so we know who we are dealing with?

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 

Better yet; post an introduction in the Welcome Wagon...

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 

Maybe I should have finished with just my opinion. When I watch our defense play I see missed assignments, missed tackles and slow pursuit with bad angles. Oh, and almost no half time adjustments.
I JUST DON'T THINK SAPAGS DID A GOOD JOB WITH WHAT HE HAD.
I AM NOT CALLING FOR HIS HEAD, I JUST THINK OUR PLAYERS ARE STUPID. I CALL IT LIKE I SEE IT.
Just my humble opinion!:rolleyes:

How old are you - 15? because you come across as very juvenile. I answered your question earlier about "schemes" with no reply from you - probably because i owned your butt w my answer - and now your badgering another member with the sme question?? Is this all you do on this board? Criticize and question everyone's posts and ask for examples?? Unless you have your own answers to refute everyone you should rethink how you respond to other members' replies.

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 

i personally wont answer any of that dudes questions,or respond to him, he does come across juvenile as you stated 44champs

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 

I think that with all the team was going through this season and with the clear improvement of the defense over the last half of the season, he deserves at least another season.

Would I be pissed off hurt if he got canned? No. Worst defense in the history of the NFL.

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 

I see big difference here in what I believe.

Remember Gary Gibbs?

Well during Gibbs run as D-Coordinator, you could tell what the problem was, it wasnt the players, it was the D-Coordinator, and after the 08 season he was canned.


We FFWD to now with Spags running a similar system as Gibbs but probably a little more complex, and what I see?

I dont see Spags as the problem, I see our players as the problem, Spags sets the plan in motion, the players are not executing it.

Most of the problem has been with Roman Harper and Malcolm Jenkins, its when Bush and Quddus got more playing time at the positions, the Defense actually improved a good bit. They manage to shut out Tampa Bay because of it. First time since 1995 they actually shut someone out.

Thats my 2 cents.

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 

I don't think it was the turn overs. The Saints only had 9 interceptions that season. Lowest number in the NFL. They were in the bottom third of the league in total turnovers that season.

We actually had 1 more turn over this year than we did that season.

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 

in 09 they had more than 9 ints didnt they?

They had an int in just about every game.

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 

2010

Long thread. westbankdaze said that the Saints defense has been bad every year for the last 4 years except 2010 (Saints were the 4th best that season in yards allowed) and he didn't know why the defense seemed to click that year.