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Spags: I hope hes canned

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by Belair57 so if the offseason drama screwed up this def why did it not affect our offense? Its spags, and now im reading players dont like the guy, its becoming even more evident what happened this year ...

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Old 01-02-2013, 10:32 AM   #71
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Re: Spags: I hope hes canned

Originally Posted by Belair57 View Post
so if the offseason drama screwed up this def why did it not affect our offense? Its spags, and now im reading players dont like the guy, its becoming even more evident what happened this year
... because the offense had above-average talent? Insert a couple of talents on this defense in key positions, like say a Charles Tillman, a Clay Matthews and/or a JJ Watt and you have a totally different outcome.

I just think it's short-sighted to want to replace a D/C after such an offseason/season and especially doing it just because your players don't like the guy.

Who's running the asylum? The inmates? I'd get rid of a few disgruntled, anonymous and undoubtedly marginal talents on defense before I ****canned a coordinator, just sayin'.
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:52 AM   #72
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Re: Spags: I hope hes canned

Originally Posted by NOS2SB View Post
Lovie Smith for DC.
I think Spags gets another year with payton but man that would be awesome.
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Old 01-02-2013, 11:10 AM   #73
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First, I'd like to go on record as saying that Rick Venturi is the worst D Coordinator that we've ever had, not Spags, despite the infortunate "record".

I didn't like the Spags hiring at the beginning of the year - I felt that we disnt have the right personnel to fit his schemes and philosophy. In time, i started seeing some hope and some good play from the defense. The jury's still out on him, but I have a feeling Payton's input will fix a lot of things.
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Old 01-02-2013, 11:16 AM   #74
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Re: Spags: I hope hes canned

Originally Posted by 44Champs View Post
I'd like to go on record as saying that Rick Venturi is the worst D Coordinator that we've ever had. I didn't like the Spags hiring at the beginning of the year, and despite our unfortunate "record", i started seeing some hope. The jury's still out on him, but I have a feeling Payton's input will fix a lot of things.
That is one aspect people are starting to forget about Spags' situation. If he would have had a normal offseason (that includes his HC and his GM) things would have been different believe me.

Its hard for you to pick up FA's to compliment when you don't have the 2 most important people there to OK that move or know who the f*** your boss is going to be that week. Spags was pretty much given a bag of scraps that had a note that said "IOU next season" on it from the Saints organization.
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Old 01-02-2013, 02:01 PM   #75
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Re: Spags: I hope hes canned

Okay, we'll revisit why Sean Payton is a Good Coach and why others have the Jim Mora System Syndrome...

cue Golden Light, Angels Harmony

***You build your system around the guys you have and put them in the best position for success***

I like Spagnulo, but the Defense has been inconsistent in its improvement and he should be released...

However, Coach will probably want to work with him at least one season before reaching that conclusion...
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Old 01-02-2013, 03:04 PM   #76
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Re: Spags: I hope hes canned

Originally Posted by Mikemike View Post
I looked and I don't see anyone named "anonymous" on the roster.
I didn't think you could even fit that name on a jersey, but I guess you can,
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Old 01-02-2013, 03:41 PM   #77
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Re: Spags: I hope hes canned

Originally Posted by Belair57 View Post
I guess Im just quick to fire a guy that put trash play on the field, despite the off field distractions. He needs to be held accountalbe in some fashion.
Maybe Payton will cane him in front of the team.
Over all the team was like a high school kid being left unsupervised by his parents for a weekend...look at the play calling on offence, poor special teams play...everything was just willy nilly.
Give Spags a year under big daddy SP and see what he can do. I'm optimistic.
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Old 01-02-2013, 04:49 PM   #78
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Re: Spags: I hope hes canned

I think that I'd be one of those people in the minority who'd be pissed off if Spags was canned - probably because I really wanted for the Saints to hire him and was very vocal about it, and I don't like to be proven wrong.

But, with all the unlearning the players had to go through after all the garbage GW had been shoving down their throats during his tenure - next year will undoubtedly be much better and it would be a huge mistake to part ways with Spags at this point in time no matter who'd be available to potentially replace him.

And, the offense had an off year also. They were good, but nowhere near what they can be and will be once again under SP's guidance next season. In a handful of games this season the defense gave the team a chance to play for the win, but the offense dropped the ball - quite literally - and that is why I don't understand why suddenly a losing record is entirely on the shoulders of Spags?!

Oh, and I do fully agree with canning McMahon's a$$... that has been the case for years now.

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Old 01-02-2013, 05:01 PM   #79
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Re: Spags: I hope hes canned

If you accept the argument that Spags system works and we just don't have the players to fit, then after the worst defensive season in history you must also conclude that practically every player will need to be replaced in order for us to succeed with Spags at the helm.
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:20 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by Mikemike View Post
Really?
Explain "his system" to us and how it works...compare and contrast it with Williams system versus Gibbs system and explain the nuances and differences in each. Give examples.

Explain exactly what type of personnel each system requires and why. Give examples...



Payton and Loomis are responsible for evaluating and acquiring talented players. If/since we don't have many, don't blame the DC.
Seriously??? Somebody needs to explain these "systems" to you? Unless you've been living under a rock for the past few years or dont know much about football, it should be obvious. You want examples - here you go .
Spags's successful defenses in NY and StL were built around creating a strong pass rush with just the front four so that the remainig 7 could be used in either coverage or to stop the run. You need AT LEAST one dominant lineman in order to create that element. In StL, Sags had Long, and in NY, he had several. Name ONE D-lineman on the Saints that other teams consider dominant - NONE!! Spags has incorporated the blitz more this year than he normally dooes because of that deficiency.
Williams "system" was to blitz blitz blitz which is because he realized we couldnt create a pass rush with just our front four. Fans that had been calling Smith, Ellis and Franklin "beasts" quit doing so because they realized how ineffective they were. The other part of Williams' system was to get players to strip the ball, which is why our D has been such a crappy tackling unit.
As far as Gibbs is concerned, who knows what the hell he was trying to do. I dont even know if he had a defensive philosophy. He just plain sucked as a D coordinator.

Finally, if you re-read my post, I never blamed the DC for evaluating and acquiring our personnel that we have, so I'm not sure where you came up w that. A a matter of fact, my point is the opposite: I didn't think we had the personnel in place to fit into Spag's defensive philosophy. That being said, I think Spags is doing a decent job of developing some of these players and getting them to understand what he's trying to get them to do. I think we have 1 or 2 D lineman that have the potential to develop into that dominant lineman that we need to make this system more effective.
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