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Spags: I hope hes canned

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by Mikemike Faulty logic. How so?...

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Old 01-02-2013, 09:05 PM   #81
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Re: Spags: I hope hes canned

Originally Posted by Mikemike View Post
Faulty logic.
How so?
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:59 PM   #82
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Re: Spags: I hope hes canned

Did any of you guys read what Lofton had to say? He kinda hinted that this anonymous player is just too dumb to figure it out.
I wonder if it was Sed Elis?
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Old 01-03-2013, 02:23 AM   #83
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Re: Spags: I hope hes canned

Originally Posted by pinch View Post
How so?

Well, as far as your original comment goes...


Originally Posted by pinch View Post
If you accept the argument that Spags system works and we just don't have the players to fit, then after the worst defensive season in history you must also conclude that practically every player will need to be replaced in order for us to succeed with Spags at the helm.

I also agree that it is based on faulty logic, because even if one accepts the argument that Spags' system works and that the Saints' personnel just didn't fit into that system, it would be a stretch to conclude based on that that they need to practically replace every player in order to get Spags' system to work next season.

Players learn and unlearn new/old playing styles and habits and adapt to new situations, just like everyone of us has the ability to adapt to new situations in our lives and careers. Therefore, I think that even though the defensive personnel might not have fitted perfectly Spags' system this year - it doesn't necessarily mean that they won't fit it come next season, if not perfectly then in all probability at least somewhat better.

I think that they only need few key additions and subtractions on some important positions on the defense along with the learning curve already starting to plateau as far as most players are concerned - and they can be a very effective defensive unit next season. That along with the offense playing like they should, which wasn't the case in every game this past season, and the Saints will be playoff and Super Bowl bound next season without having to make any wholesale purging of the defensive roster.

And just to conclude, you shouldn't use superlatives like "you must also conclude" when talking about correlations and deductions/inductions based on very limited evidence - as was the case with your argument - because one can rarely make a convincing argument when trying to force the reader to come to a certain conclusion without letting them do it for themselves.

Just my 2 cents...
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Old 01-03-2013, 04:28 AM   #84
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Re: Spags: I hope hes canned

Just my 2 cents;

No matter the coach nor "system", the basic fundamental of tackling should be a prerequisite of being a professional football player.
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Old 01-03-2013, 04:50 AM   #85
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Re: Spags: I hope hes canned

I saw more out of Spag's system then GW's. Even with how terrible they were- I saw more from his system. The game where Drew threw 5 int's against the Falcons I think we had 5 stops in a row of their offense. That's a pretty good offense. I don't think I can remember us ever doing that under GW. Matter of fact all I can remember is watching teams march up and down the field on us and praying for some form of magical turnover to save us again. Just my opinion, but I think we were due some growing pains going to a real system. I saw many bright spots the second half of the season. The biggest issue we had was nothing came together at the same time. If the D was on point the offense was failing. If the D and offense were playing well the ST's **** the bed. I can't wait to see how these guys play next year under his system. Hicks, TJ, and Cam on D-Line have me excited. I like our LB situation a whole lot better than any time under GW. I like 42 back at safety, interested to see if CW keeps improving, and like Mack as a backup. Probably could use a really good corner, but either way I think we have some things to look forward on D.
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Old 01-03-2013, 06:02 AM   #86
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Re: Spags: I hope hes canned

Originally Posted by biloxi-indian View Post
Just my 2 cents;

No matter the coach nor "system", the basic fundamental of tackling should be a prerequisite of being a professional football player.
This, this, this! Tackling was HORRIBLE! That is something that can't be blamed on the system.
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Old 01-03-2013, 07:43 AM   #87
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Re: Spags: I hope hes canned

Originally Posted by D_it_up View Post
This, this, this! Tackling was HORRIBLE! That is something that can't be blamed on the system.
But the system taking so long to learn with less time to practice under the new CBA probably contributed to tackling woes.
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Old 01-03-2013, 12:28 PM   #88
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Re: Spags: I hope hes canned

Our defense is basically stupid and has a tough time running schemes.
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Old 01-03-2013, 02:24 PM   #89
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Re: Spags: I hope hes canned

Players learn and unlearn new/old playing styles and habits and adapt to new situations, just like everyone of us has the ability to adapt to new situations in our lives and careers. Therefore, I think that even though the defensive personnel might not have fitted perfectly Spags' system this year - it doesn't necessarily mean that they won't fit it come next season, if not perfectly then in all probability at least somewhat better.
But here is where we differ I guess. When your defense is last in NFL history then 'somewhat better' improvements just isn't going to cut it. While we have our entire lives to adapt to our careers, NFL players have at most a few years. Hoping the players will smarten-up or improve due to an offseason is something Haslett would do.
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Old 01-03-2013, 02:33 PM   #90
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Re: Spags: I hope hes canned

If it is all about the players and having the best than anyone could be a sucessful coach which I dont agree with totally. Good Players have to be disiplined and cover their responsibilities which I know wasn't happening. The question is was it the players fault or was spags not putting them in position to have success I cant really answer that. Only those coaches and players really know what went down. I think Payton will do a lot to fix this and hold spags and or the players accountable again.
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