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Belair57 12-31-2012 11:36 AM

Spags: I hope hes canned
 
He needs to be added to the black monday list. The worst D ever??? there is NOTHING you can say that supports his need to say. Bounty gate, SP not being around, yadi yadi. Dude has got to go. A coachs responsibility is to make it work with what you got.

We had the worst D in the History of the NFL...period

Boot his ass to the curb sean!!

thoughts???

D_it_up 12-31-2012 11:40 AM

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 
I want to keep him around at least one more year to see what improvements are made. If things still don't seem to be working out, then maybe after next season. I don't think any coordinator could have done much better with our defensive personnel.

Belair57 12-31-2012 11:43 AM

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 
G WIlliams had the same hot garbage players and they didnt rank last in the HISTORY of the nfl..

and the whole it takes time to learn BS, is just that ...BS. They are professionals. at some point the coaching has to be held accountable. Its not like the players are guys like me sitting on thier couch thinking they know whats best.

OldMaid 12-31-2012 11:51 AM

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 
Belair, my thoughts are your thoughts.
I agree with no HC Sean, coming in new, bounty, yada, yada, yada, but still, he could not coach, motivate these defense guys no kind of way?
WTH did they do during film day? Practice? Did they get motivated by having the playbook thrown at them to study? Rewards too for showing up for work?
Strengthing and conditioning in the weight room? WHAT did they do during the week?
We saw only what they did on the field which was miss tackles. Run slowly. Miss readings. Very little effort. Looked slow, lazy. Take Gatorade breaks while offense went to work most Sundays.
I remember reading here early in this season someone was at a game and said once defense sat on sidelines, after these horrible plays, no caoching there showing them som charts, brow beating , nothing.
That is why I said take Gatorade breaks.
Steve Spagnoulo is not a novice coach. He was not in over his head.
He also has a reputation to uphold. His own career.
If I were him, I would want out because this does not help him career wise.
If I were him, early on after first four games, I would have made these defense players got motivated, worked it, and kept my reputation.
It is not just Spags, but what about the whole defense coaching side.
Other teams knew, Saints had no defense. None. EASY pickings there.
I hear you D, but the missed and missed tackles and slowness , I could not stand to see and could never figure out. Looking at other defense teams, they ran a bit faster and tackled.

D_it_up 12-31-2012 11:51 AM

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 
You asked for thoughts, and I gave mine. Sorry that mine don't match up with yours.

Belair57 12-31-2012 11:57 AM

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by D_it_up (Post 469034)
You asked for thoughts, and I gave mine. Sorry that mine don't match up with yours.

I see where your coming from, it just doesnt seem like he should be given a free pass to me. all those other things that we all discuss are the problems, shouldnt be overlooked...im just floored with this defense this year.

WhoDat!656 12-31-2012 12:07 PM

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 
The difference is, prior to 2012, the offense was playing at such a high level that it masked the poor play of our defense.

As much as you want to hang the defense's problems on Spags, all of the distractions DID have an effect.

Beastmode 12-31-2012 12:08 PM

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Belair57 (Post 469030)
G WIlliams had the same hot garbage players and they didnt rank last in the HISTORY of the nfl..

and the whole it takes time to learn BS, is just that ...BS. They are professionals. at some point the coaching has to be held accountable. Its not like the players are guys like me sitting on thier couch thinking they know whats best.

It's not the worst defense in history, only in yardage. The worst team owns a lot more catergories. Up until the last couple of games they were also still in the playoff race, it was a long shot but 7 wins is not the worst defense of all time. I say give him one more shot. He now knows what he's dealing with and what needs to happen.

Belair57 12-31-2012 12:10 PM

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 
I guess Im just quick to fire a guy that put trash play on the field, despite the off field distractions. He needs to be held accountalbe in some fashion.

ChrisXVI 12-31-2012 12:12 PM

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Belair57 (Post 469041)
I guess Im just quick to fire a guy that put trash play on the field, despite the off field distractions. He needs to be held accountalbe in some fashion.

Maybe he put trash players on the field. Spags is one of the best in the business.

Danno 12-31-2012 12:30 PM

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 
It wouldn't hurt my feelings if he's replaced.

st thomas 12-31-2012 12:57 PM

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 
Possibly payton and loomis gives him an out. If he says hes up to the challenge then i.m all in.

hagan714 12-31-2012 12:59 PM

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 
spags biggest mistake was trying to jam williams square pegs into his round holes.

To me that is a major flaw in a coach.

My first impression after one year is:

he is a coach that believes his system will work with any players. well that was proven wrong.

i can handle another year but i hope he comes done from his high and mighty lofts and starts work a defense scheme around the players strengths.

stickman 12-31-2012 01:22 PM

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 
Well, as there will probably be major personnel changes this offseason. I'm willing to wait and see what happens.

This defense was bad, but, certain games can't be blamed on them...

Blame special teams for the Giants loss, and Brees and his interceptions for the 49ers and Falcons losses.

D_it_up 12-31-2012 01:24 PM

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 
Lovie Smith is now available if Spags gets canned. If he doesn't get hired as a head coach somewhere else and the Saints do fire Spags, Lovie would be the FIRST person I would interview for the job. Hypothetically speaking, of course.

ChrisXVI 12-31-2012 01:41 PM

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 
Stop it yall. We have garbage defensive players... period. To say that Spags is the problem is absurd. There's light at the end of this tunnel... We'll get the right players and improve on defense. We have players that fit into f***head's defensive scheme... meaning that everyone was sent on the blitz on every down and nobody really had to worry about covering anyone. Now we have a proven D-Coordinator that actually asks his front 4 to generate a pass rush and his back 7 to cover. Novel concept huh?! We'll be fine. Spags just has garbage players to work with and that'll soon be changed.

Seer1 12-31-2012 01:41 PM

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by D_it_up (Post 469070)
Lovie Smith is now available if Spags gets canned. If he doesn't get hired as a head coach somewhere else and the Saints do fire Spags, Lovie would be the FIRST person I would interview for the job. Hypothetically speaking, of course.

Ahh a voice of reason. However, I'm thinking in a league where it looks like Norv and Snake-bit Andy could trade places, where the Browns keep Burger Meister Meisterburger around long enough to miss picking up RG III, where Tebow is a first round draft pick and the hottest coaching name in discussions hasn't even stood on a sideline for years, why not keep Spags? I mean it's not supposed to make sense, right? In order to keep with the not make sense thing, the only thing the Saints can do is ignore both Lovie and Crennell (another guy I'd have on speed dial right now) and keep Lady Spaga...

Seer1 12-31-2012 02:18 PM

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisXVI (Post 469077)
Stop it yall. We have garbage defensive players... period. To say that Spags is the problem is absurd. There's light at the end of this tunnel... We'll get the right players and improve on defense. We have players that fit into f***head's defensive scheme... meaning that everyone was sent on the blitz on every down and nobody really had to worry about covering anyone. Now we have a proven D-Coordinator that actually asks his front 4 to generate a pass rush and his back 7 to cover. Novel concept huh?! We'll be fine. Spags just has garbage players to work with and that'll soon be changed.

I can tell you what he's proven this year. There's bad, then there's worse, then there's our defense. Our players are still pros and most would still be playing somewhere if not with the Saints. Our guys were out of position so much that I have to believe there never was a position for them to be in to begin with. I'm putting Spags (the NYG front four) in with Holmgren (Farve) as a coach that was made by the players he had not vice versa. No broken heart here to see him standing in the bread line.

Mardigras9 12-31-2012 02:30 PM

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 
It's the D-players, not the coach. Let Payton come back and see what Spags and he can do together.

houwhodat 12-31-2012 02:35 PM

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 
Kick his ass to the curb.

HE SUCKS.

Danno 12-31-2012 02:41 PM

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisXVI (Post 469077)
Stop it yall. We have garbage defensive players... period. .

Stopped reading right there...Nonsense, plain and simple.

SloMotion 12-31-2012 02:53 PM

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 
IDK, you can't bring in a new DC every year. Coaching carousels are never in the best interest of a team.

Who is in a better position to evaluate the current defense and recommend player/personnel changes in order to affect real change? Spags or a new face?

Mardigras9 12-31-2012 03:01 PM

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SloMotion (Post 469095)
IDK, you can't bring in a new DC every year. Coaching carousels are never in the best interest of a team.

Who is in a better position to evaluate the current defense and recommend player/personnel changes in order to affect real change? Spags or a new face?

You got to love a voice of reason, thanks Slo-mo.

saintfan 12-31-2012 03:03 PM

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 
http://images.wikia.com/39clues/images/d/d6/Tin_Can.jpg

frydaddy 12-31-2012 03:44 PM

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Danno (Post 469089)
Stopped reading right there...Nonsense, plain and simple.

Danno, I sometimes wonder if you're contrary just for the sake of being contrary. There are a few bright spots on our d, mainly the younger guys on the line, but I'm not sure how anyone can disagree that our defensive personnel on the whole is terrible. Looking at who we put on the field this season you see a collection of aging and declining vets and a bunch of younger guys, a great deal of whom have been converted from one position to another. We'd all love to think the light is gonna come on for the young guys and they'll settle into their new roles, but in all honesty the only one i have much hope for is gallette. I really like martez, but I'm afraid he'll be another in a long line of shoulda/coulda/woulda defensive players we've drafted over the last decade or so. This coming year is make or break for him as a saint, I believe. Same for Jenkins and Hawthorne. Smith's tank is running on fumes, Greer is starting to show his age, P rob is a disappointment, same for johnny p, harper..as much as I really do appreciate the guy and his skillset..he doesn't fit into spags' d. We need our secondary to be able to cover, and you can say what you want, as your constant defense of him is kinda heart-warming, but he is a liability in coverage.. I do agree with what you've said about our defense only needing a few key pickups to be good, because it doesn't take 11 pro bowlers, just a couple of impact players with a decent supporting cast. I think we have enough, or very close to it, to make up the supporting cast. We absolutely must score an impact edge rusher in April though, otherwise I can easily see us struggling again next year on d

saintfan 12-31-2012 04:28 PM

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by frydaddy (Post 469118)
Danno, I sometimes wonder if you're contrary just for the sake of being contrary. There are a few bright spots on our d, mainly the younger guys on the line, but I'm not sure how anyone can disagree that our defensive personnel on the whole is terrible. Looking at who we put on the field this season you see a collection of aging and declining vets and a bunch of younger guys, a great deal of whom have been converted from one position to another. We'd all love to think the light is gonna come on for the young guys and they'll settle into their new roles, but in all honesty the only one i have much hope for is gallette. I really like martez, but I'm afraid he'll be another in a long line of shoulda/coulda/woulda defensive players we've drafted over the last decade or so. This coming year is make or break for him as a saint, I believe. Same for Jenkins and Hawthorne. Smith's tank is running on fumes, Greer is starting to show his age, P rob is a disappointment, same for johnny p, harper..as much as I really do appreciate the guy and his skillset..he doesn't fit into spags' d. We need our secondary to be able to cover, and you can say what you want, as your constant defense of him is kinda heart-warming, but he is a liability in coverage.. I do agree with what you've said about our defense only needing a few key pickups to be good, because it doesn't take 11 pro bowlers, just a couple of impact players with a decent supporting cast. I think we have enough, or very close to it, to make up the supporting cast. We absolutely must score an impact edge rusher in April though, otherwise I can easily see us struggling again next year on d

What I saw more often than not was people woefully out of position. Our guys wandered around confused, it appeared to me. You can't put square pegs into round holes, and if the head defensive coach can't see this and for whatever reason refuses to accept it, then there's your biggest problem.

In my opinion.

I agree with Danno. I think we've got talent on defense and I think it has been horribly misused.

Danno 12-31-2012 04:56 PM

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by saintfan (Post 469132)
What I saw more often than not was people woefully out of position. Our guys wandered around confused, it appeared to me. You can't put square pegs into round holes, and if the head defensive coach can't see this and for whatever reason refuses to accept it, then there's your biggest problem.

In my opinion.

I agree with Danno. I think we've got talent on defense and I think it has been horribly misused.

Agreed. We have plenty of talent on defense. Not one player is "horrible" or "garbage".

We have a few below average players, but no more than most teams.

Our main problem, as you pointed out, is square pegs in round holes which is 100% on the coaches.

As far as talent goes our main problem is we have a roster full of average to above average players, but no elite, excellent, gamebreaker, difference maker, or whatever you wanna call em. We don't have a Clay Matthews, Ray Lewis, JJ Watts, Ngata, Willis, Reed, Polomalu, Suggs, Ware, type player on this team.

But to say all of our players are Garbage is total assinine bullcrap. Sorry if it offends anyone but I call it like I see it. Thats nonsense.

frydaddy 12-31-2012 04:58 PM

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 
I think we have talent too. I also think we have too many guys on the decline and a few busts on that side of the ball, and the talent we have is not enough to make up for it

alleycat_126 12-31-2012 06:06 PM

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Belair57 (Post 469026)
He needs to be added to the black monday list. The worst D ever??? there is NOTHING you can say that supports his need to say. Bounty gate, SP not being around, yadi yadi. Dude has got to go. A coachs responsibility is to make it work with what you got.

We had the worst D in the History of the NFL...period

Boot his ass to the curb sean!!

thoughts???

Where do I begin, the worst d in the league thing is way overblown, yes historically statistically bad, but we have known since the loss in Seattle that we needed an overhaul, and chose not to do it. Here is the consequence, you can't just throw him on the stake for everything that's wrong defensively with this team without giving him a significant amount of time to effectively correct the problem.

I think you will see enough significant change on this team defensively next season to tell whether spags can get it done. You got Ellis coming off the team, will smith, Scott Shane, maybe Jon Vilma, a full defensive draft, and free agency with your head coach available so the issues that plagued us defensively this season should be rectified, if not then you can call for his head....... You wanna fire somebody how bout you fire the special teams coach, worst starting field position in the league, giving up big kickoff and punt returns all season.

TheEnigma 12-31-2012 06:06 PM

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 
We need to keep Spags around. What we REALLY NEED to do is get rid of these clowns on defense like Sedrick Ellis and Patrick Robinson who have not helped out.

skymike 12-31-2012 06:59 PM

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisXVI (Post 469042)
Spags is one of the best in the business.

Not anymore.

You know, Mike Ditka won a super bowl, and was the hottest thing in Chicago since fire. Then he came here.

Janet Jackson says.....______ (somebody finish it for me)

skymike 12-31-2012 07:03 PM

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 
As for the question on the Opening Post,
ask me wednesday, when I've cooled down.

There's still a distinctively fresh bull$*** taste in my mouth today.

burningmetal 12-31-2012 07:17 PM

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 
I don't buy into the learning curve excuse, either. I think it makes a difference, but not enough to cause the worst defense ever. He definitely didn't do anything to help us, but our secondary was absolutely atrocious. To me, that's on the players themselves. I don't know how many times I saw Patrick Robinson running step for step with a WR, and then just suddenly stop. That's plain idiotic. Our safeties are everywhere the ball isn't. Jabari Greer got burned an alarming amount, and for the first time really looked as short as he is. QB's figured out that they could throw that fade every time and Jabari just didn't have the hops to compete with all these 6' 4" receivers. And lastly, Johnny Patrick looks exactly like P-Rob when he's out there.

I know our pass rush sucks, but your secondary has to be competent, at the very least. Give Spags one more chance, but that's it. We need a dominant pass rusher, at least one shutdown corner, and also, at least one decent safety. That wouldn't be enough to make us very good on D, but it would hopefully make us good enough.

onebyone 12-31-2012 07:24 PM

Re: Spags: I hope hes canned
 
I don't want to personally put my foot to his arse and kick him out myself like I did Williams. However, I wouldn't be too terribly sad if I didn't see him on the sidelines again. He may have been great with the Giants, but we aren't the Giants. Coach accordingly.

I know he used to do nice stuff for you, but what has he done for you lately?


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