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New Orleans Saints DE Will Smith says he sees himself in the team's 2013 mix

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by FinSaint I don't know guys, I don't see him really fitting in any of the LOS positions in a 3-4, because he's too small and not explosive enough to be a 3-4 DE, and he is too ...

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Old 02-04-2013, 01:47 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by FinSaint View Post
I don't know guys, I don't see him really fitting in any of the LOS positions in a 3-4, because he's too small and not explosive enough to be a 3-4 DE, and he is too slow to set the edge and doesn't have the coverage skills to be an OLB. And he's definitely not a match at NT, so I really don't know how he could fit in the 3-4 scheme.
Cameron Jordan and Will Smith are virtually the same size. He's 6'3 282... that's plenty big enough for a 3-4 DE. As far as being explosive, that's not a term typically garnered by 3-4 DE's. He shouldn't have trouble penetrating and occupying blockers... he's always been pretty solid at that. He has trouble closing and taking down the quarterback.

Now the other LB/NT talk, I agree with. As far as DE, size is not the issue. Look up the numbers on Elvis Dumervil, Antonio Smith, John Abraham, etc.



Of course they can make him fit, but isn't that just the kind of thing that we as fans have been frustrated with in the past (and present) - the whole "square peg into a round hole" thing?! I'd rather they got rid of the players that don't suit the future scheme and replace them with players who do. This is nothing against Smith, but I think that he might have better opportunities to be a more effective player with some other team and scheme.
We'll just beg to differ. I think he fits both skill and size wise.

Last edited by papz; 02-04-2013 at 02:50 PM..
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Old 02-04-2013, 04:34 PM   #22
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Re: New Orleans Saints DE Will Smith says he sees himself in the team's 2013 mix

Originally Posted by papz View Post
Cameron Jordan and Will Smith are virtually the same size. He's 6'3 282... that's plenty big enough for a 3-4 DE. As far as being explosive, that's not a term typically garnered by 3-4 DE's. He shouldn't have trouble penetrating and occupying blockers... he's always been pretty solid at that. He has trouble closing and taking down the quarterback.

Now the other LB/NT talk, I agree with. As far as DE, size is not the issue. Look up the numbers on Elvis Dumervil, Antonio Smith, John Abraham, etc.

We'll just beg to differ. I think he fits both skill and size wise.

If we were talking about the 23 year old Smith as opposed to the 31 year old version - I would agree with you on the comparison to Jordan, although Smith is 6026 while Jordan is 6041, so while Cam is 6-4 Smith is barely 6-3.

It's naturally about more than just inches when I was talking about the size, but a key ingredient for a typically effective 3-4 DE is having long arms, which Smith doesn't really have. Also, IMO, Smith has lost a step or two during the past couple of years and he hasn't been able to fight off the tackles with the same rate of success he did in the past (based on just eye-balling his play), and he hasn't been forced to face too many double teams because of that diminished pass rushing ability. Therefore, the size comes into play more than it would if he was otherwise in the same physical condition he was back when he came into the league. If he had more size, he could play the 3-4 DE position with more effect, since he could use that size to take on double teams - which is what a 3-4 DE is supposed to do along with providing interior pressure - but I just can't see him being able to do that with much success at this point in his career and with the current skill-level he has. Explosiveness doesn't really have that much to do with what an ideal 3-4 DE is about, but I only listed that as something that could potentially allow Smith to compensate for his lack of size, but again he doesn't have that explosiveness off the LOS.

Smith has the ideal size for a 4-3 DE, but 3-4 DEs are ideally bigger than their 4-3 counterparts - not that his size alone makes him a bad fit, but it's definitely part of the issue.

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Old 02-04-2013, 05:20 PM   #23
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Re: New Orleans Saints DE Will Smith says he sees himself in the team's 2013 mix

I'm sorry I still can't get behind your size argument. Although you've stated it's not the primary reason why you don't think he's a fit, his size is something you're continually using to factor why he won't work here. 6'2 3/4 and 6'3 isn't a big difference and it really is not an issue.

I definitely agree he's lost a step or two but don't see the part where you're saying he hasn't faced as many double teams. Personally I see him getting held all the time and he's always and still does get extra attention. Maybe not to the same degree as the past, but he's 31... his skill are declining. I'm not talking about bringing the guy back as a full time option or at his current rate. But I see no reason why he wouldn't be a solid rotational fit in a 3-4. He can occupy blockers... that's never been an issue. That's what you want from your 3-4 DE. I have no idea how long his arms are but he doesn't look like T-Rex out there either.

Ideally 3-4 DE's weigh btw 285 to 300... and Smith is right on the cusp. Truthfully, he probably weighs more than his listed weight... which is pretty common on their player card(he looks around 290). So no matter how you put it, it's just not something we're going to agree on. I don't think there is anything that needs to be compensated due to this lack in size thing. His diminishing ability in rushing the passer in my opinion, at this stage in his career, makes him better suited for a 3-4 DE now... or a LDE in a 4-3(which typically fits the bill as a 3-4 end).

I'm pretty firm in my assessment... if I'm wrong, I don't think you can flip me until we actually see him play.

Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.

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Old 02-04-2013, 07:18 PM   #24
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Re: New Orleans Saints DE Will Smith says he sees himself in the team's 2013 mix

Sure, you're entitled to your opinion as am I to mine, so there's really no point in debating this point any further.

I just think that Smith would himself find more success and probably more gratification with a team mainly running the 4-3 base defense, but I wouldn't be totally against seeing him on the roster next season - just not if he is being paid anything close to what he is being paid now.
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:13 AM   #25
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Re: New Orleans Saints DE Will Smith says he sees himself in the team's 2013 mix

You both have some good points. I didn't realize Smith was that tall, he certainly looks smaller. Looking at them side by side on the field Jordan looks a lot taller with longer arms. That wingspan plays a big role for a 3-4 DE. I think Smith is a tad undersized (weight +height+length) as an everydown 3-4 DE, but he could probably do OK there.

Personally I think Smith is a much better fit as a 4-3 RDE than a 3-4 RDE. I think he would be offered more money as a 4-3 DE somewhere else.

I think we have to go youger and cheaper. I'd be OK with Smith at a much reduced salary, but I doubt he'll stay for what we can afford.
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Old 02-05-2013, 10:52 AM   #26
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Re: New Orleans Saints DE Will Smith says he sees himself in the team's 2013 mix

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 View Post
I've got it on a good source that Smith will do whatever is in his power to remain a Saint.
Then show up an earn your money
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