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alleycat_126 02-06-2013 12:58 PM

Time to start releasing players?
 
Who's on your list?

dizzle88 02-06-2013 01:27 PM

Re: Time to start releasing players?
 
The main 4

Will Smith
Vilma
Sed Ellis
Scott Shanle


Produce this year or get released type of players

Malcolm Jenkins
Patrick Robinson

On their way out

Unfortunately Devery Henderson, I like dev aswell but he hasn't got the speed he used to have

Danno 02-06-2013 01:38 PM

Re: Time to start releasing players?
 
Without a Defensive Coordinator its foolish to release anyone on the defensive side of the ball.

NuNu318 02-06-2013 01:38 PM

Re: Time to start releasing players?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dizzle88 (Post 477976)
The main 4

Will Smith
Vilma
Sed Ellis
Scott Shanle


Produce this year or get released type of players

Malcolm Jenkins
Patrick Robinson

On their way out

Unfortunately Devery Henderson, I like dev aswell but he hasn't got the speed he used to have

I agree with the top 4 but Ellis is already a UFA...he's gone regardless.

TheOak 02-06-2013 01:41 PM

Re: Time to start releasing players?
 
Vilma - frees up 8.6m
Jonathan Vilma Contract, Salaries, and Transactions
Harper - Frees up 7m
Roman Harper Contract, Salaries, and Transactions
Daniel - UFA
Bushrod - UFA
Henderson - UFA
Shanle - UFA
Hartley - Frees up 2.6m
Garret Hartley Contract, Salaries, and Transactions
Smith - Frees up 14.5m
Will Smith Contract, Salaries, and Transactions
Ellis - UFA
P. Robinson - Frees up 2.2m
Patrick Robinson Contract, Salaries, and Transactions


Just freed up 34m in cap

K Major 02-06-2013 01:42 PM

Re: Time to start releasing players?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dizzle88 (Post 477976)
The main 4

Will Smith
Vilma
Sed Ellis
Scott Shanle


Produce this year or get released type of players

Malcolm Jenkins
Patrick Robinson

On their way out

Unfortunately Devery Henderson, I like dev aswell but he hasn't got the speed he used to have

I agree almost completely however I think I would part ways with Patrick Robinson & Harper NOW. Patrick puts me in the mind of the Fred Thomas days and Harper simply can't anticipate QB's tendencies or cover in space.

halloween 65 02-06-2013 01:44 PM

Re: Time to start releasing players?
 
Egg Ellis#1 followed by Vilma, Smith and Jenkins, we might be able to get something for Jenkins and Smith in a trade for picks. Now as much as I hate to say this Shanle, only because time has caught up to him, although he is heavy enough to play inside but not fast enough. I don't have a clue what to do with Harper, although he might be a good rover{Polomolue) type, depending on what type of 3-4 we run, so the verdict is out on him, although we could get a great deal in trade or picks if the right team came along.

TheOak 02-06-2013 01:47 PM

Re: Time to start releasing players?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by halloween 65 (Post 477983)
Egg Ellis#1 followed by Vilma, Smith and Jenkins, we might be able to get something for Jenkins and Smith in a trade for picks. Now as much as I hate to say this Shanle, only because time has caught up to him, although he is heavy enough to play inside but not fast enough. I don't have a clue what to do with Harper, although he might be a good rover{Polomolue) type, depending on what type of 3-4 we run, so the verdict is out on him, although we could get a great deal in trade or picks if the right team came along.

No one will swallow Smiths 14.5mm

Danno 02-06-2013 02:08 PM

Re: Time to start releasing players?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOak (Post 477981)
Vilma - frees up 8.6m
Harper - Frees up 7m
Hartley - Frees up 2.6m
Smith - Frees up 14.5m
P. Robinson - Frees up 2.2m
Just freed up 34m in cap

You aren't including the cap hit for cutting them

TheOak 02-06-2013 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danno (Post 477993)
You aren't including the cap hit for cutting them

You can cut with out the hit. At least that's how I read it.

"Okay...this helps the team in the first few years of the contract, but what happens in the later years when the salary begins to escalate?

Answer: The team can do one of two things.


They can either outright release the player (to avoid having to pay his salary all together) or they can renegotiate a more "cap friendly" contract."
http://www.askthecommish.com/SalaryCap/faq.aspx

Danno 02-06-2013 02:29 PM

Re: Time to start releasing players?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOak (Post 477995)
You can cut with out the hit. At least that's how I read it.

Signing bonus money accellerates to the year you cut them. It can no longer be spread over the life of the contract once you terminate the contract.

Cutting Will Smith only saves 7 million, not 14.
Cutting Vilma only saves 6 million, not 8.6.
Cutting Harper only saves 4 million, not 7.
Cutting Hartley only saves 1.1 million, not 2.6

And then you have to add the cost to replace those players.

TheOak 02-06-2013 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danno (Post 477998)
Signing bonus money accellerates to the year you cut them. It can no longer be spread over the life of the contract once you terminate the contract.

Cutting Will Smith only saves 7 million, not 14.
Cutting Vilma only saves 6 million, not 8.6.
Cutting Harper only saves 4 million, not 7.
Cutting Hartley only saves 1.1 million, not 2.6

And then you have to add the cost to replace those players.

Replacing Smith, Vilma, and Harper with equal to or greater talent would not be too difficult.

Danno 02-06-2013 02:42 PM

Re: Time to start releasing players?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOak (Post 477999)
Replacing Smith, Vilma, and Harper with equal to or greater talent would not be too difficult.

I disagree sort of. It won't be cheap.

They are certainly overpaid, but they are also all above average players.

Even average players cost more in free agency than they're worth.

Replacing them with comparable players will save some money, but nowhere near what we need to get under the cap.

TheOak 02-06-2013 02:51 PM

Re: Time to start releasing players?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Danno (Post 478001)
I disagree sort of. It won't be cheap.

They are certainly overpaid, but they are also all above average players.

Even average players cost more in free agency than they're worth.

Replacing them with comparable players will save some money, but nowhere near what we need to get under the cap.

Meet me 1/2 way?

In regards to Smith... I just want a new name to whine about. :)

Danno 02-06-2013 03:09 PM

Re: Time to start releasing players?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOak (Post 478006)
Meet me 1/2 way?

In regards to Smith... I just want a new name to whine about. :)

Oh I agree that all 3 will have to re-structure or "bye-bye". Its just no gonna save us nearly as much as their 2013 cap hit suggests.

I'm a Harper fan, but no way he's worth that kind of cash. No safety in this league is worth that. Donte Whitner was absolutely schooled in the Superbowl. He couldn't cover squat.

He looked every bit as bad as Harper/Jenkins and he's widely considered one of the best in the NFL

Torching DB's is just the current state of the pass-happy NFL now. The best secondary in all of the NFL was torched in the playoffs by Matt Friggin Ryan.

I'm not sure there's much difference between an A-Plus safety and a C-Plus safety anymore. So why pay A-plus money for one?

K Major 02-06-2013 03:17 PM

Re: Time to start releasing players?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Danno (Post 478001)
I disagree sort of. It won't be cheap.

They are certainly overpaid, but they are also all above average players.

.

Did you say Smith and Harper are above average players??

Danno 02-06-2013 03:32 PM

Re: Time to start releasing players?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by K Major (Post 478009)
Did you say Smith and Harper are above average players??

Its debatable. Smith has certainly declined but he's always been up and down. Its impossible to grade any player on this defense based on 2012. None of them were used to their strengths, and Sean Payton said nearly the same exact thing two weeks ago.

Harper, when used as a traditional Strong Safety, is indeed above average. As a deep centerfield safety or in a 2 high safety system... uhhh not so much.

Supertek 02-06-2013 03:35 PM

Re: Time to start releasing players?
 
Ellis,Smith,Vilma,Harper,Ellis,Robinson,Shanle all need to go salary and performance all add up give the young guys a shot at it. I think the rest can do as well if not better than all of these. If we are lucky to find one or two top FA,s then go for them if not let our scouting team do their work. No way should we stay with what we got. Jenkins may be on that list but There may still be hope for him. Jenkins has more than enough speed but never gets help over the top. This should be the highest priority hands down. Some will disagree and say it is the line but who is on the line Ellis and Smith

Supertek 02-06-2013 03:46 PM

Re: Time to start releasing players?
 
Oops Ellis twice so double that with Him

TheEnigma 02-06-2013 03:54 PM

Re: Time to start releasing players?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dizzle88 (Post 477976)
The main 4

Will Smith
Vilma
Sed Ellis
Scott Shanle


This, but I would add Patrick Robinson.

TheOak 02-06-2013 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danno (Post 478008)
Oh I agree that all 3 will have to re-structure or "bye-bye". Its just no gonna save us nearly as much as their 2013 cap hit suggests.

I'm a Harper fan, but no way he's worth that kind of cash. No safety in this league is worth that. Donte Whitner was absolutely schooled in the Superbowl. He couldn't cover squat.

He looked every bit as bad as Harper/Jenkins and he's widely considered one of the best in the NFL

Torching DB's is just the current state of the pass-happy NFL now. The best secondary in all of the NFL was torched in the playoffs by Matt Friggin Ryan.

I'm not sure there's much difference between an A-Plus safety and a C-Plus safety anymore. So why pay A-plus money for one?

In essence they have become commoditized like RBs. No body wants to pay big money for RBs because they get hurt and with the way the game has changed they don't get the value out of dbacks.

Luda34 02-06-2013 08:59 PM

Re: Time to start releasing players?
 
I would let Ellis, Smith and Harper go.

|Mitch| 02-06-2013 09:03 PM

Re: Time to start releasing players?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Luda34 (Post 478096)
I would let Ellis, Smith and Harper go.

Ellis is a free agent, we just won't resign him...

Luda34 02-06-2013 09:47 PM

Re: Time to start releasing players?
 
Thanks Mitch I didn't know that.

saintsfan403 02-06-2013 11:36 PM

Re: Time to start releasing players?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Danno (Post 477998)
Signing bonus money accellerates to the year you cut them. It can no longer be spread over the life of the contract once you terminate the contract.

Cutting Will Smith only saves 7 million, not 14.
Cutting Vilma only saves 6 million, not 8.6.
Cutting Harper only saves 4 million, not 7.
Cutting Hartley only saves 1.1 million, not 2.6

And then you have to add the cost to replace those players.

In regards to Vilma, he's already been replaced by Lofton. Replacing him as an outside backer probably won't be that hard, especially with the shift to a 34.
Having a better pass rush would also help out harper, so maybe keep him around for another season to see if he improves?

TheOak 02-07-2013 04:44 AM

We need to stop keeping players one more season to see if they have improve.

Neither Smith or Vilma has had a flat or up season in the last two years. We are not going to get better keeping declining players for one more year.

hagan714 02-07-2013 05:26 AM

Re: Time to start releasing players?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by saintsfan403 (Post 478135)
In regards to Vilma, he's already been replaced by Lofton. Replacing him as an outside backer probably won't be that hard, especially with the shift to a 34.
Having a better pass rush would also help out harper, so maybe keep him around for another season to see if he improves?

micky has his work cut out for himself this off season

Rugby Saint II 02-07-2013 03:37 PM

Re: Time to start releasing players?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hagan714 (Post 478167)
micky has his work cut out for himself this off season

That he does my friend.....that he does. Again!:cool:

Danno 02-07-2013 05:48 PM

Re: Time to start releasing players?
 
Also, from another thread I learned that 3 days after the Superbowl is a key date for many NFL players since thats when some bonus money clauses kick in.

Not sure if any of ours are tied to that date tho.

K Major 02-07-2013 05:59 PM

Re: Time to start releasing players?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOak (Post 478159)
We need to stop keeping players one more season to see if they have improve.

Neither Smith or Vilma has had a flat or up season in the last two years. We are not going to get better keeping declining players for one more year.

I completely agree with you.


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