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Aren't we looking at it wrong, we just got a gift.

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by Supertek The only thing solid about Harper is his head and stone hands. He does hit well when he gets there but no way is he a playmaker and lacks anticipation no nose for the football. I ...

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Old 02-08-2013, 10:32 PM   #11
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Re: Aren't we looking at it wrong, we just got a gift.

Originally Posted by Supertek View Post
The only thing solid about Harper is his head and stone hands. He does hit well when he gets there but no way is he a playmaker and lacks anticipation no nose for the football. I want to see someone else back there that has cover skills some longevity and an upside.
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Old 02-09-2013, 07:55 AM   #12
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Re: Aren't we looking at it wrong, we just got a gift.

Originally Posted by Supertek View Post
The only thing solid about Harper is his head and stone hands. He does hit well when he gets there but no way is he a playmaker and lacks anticipation no nose for the football. I want to see someone else back there that has cover skills some longevity and an upside.
Disagree completely.

He has great anticipation and a great nose for the ball. He does have hands of stone however. He covers very well, but he doesn't play the deep ball in the air very well at all.

He was one of our top playmakers when he played SS for GW. He made two pro-bowls because of it, and it damn sure wasn't because he was popular.
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Old 02-09-2013, 08:01 AM   #13
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Re: Aren't we looking at it wrong, we just got a gift.

Originally Posted by saintfan View Post
Poor Roman. He even gets blamed for global warming...
Indeed. Recent studies suggest that Roman Harper's neck is more damaging to the ozone layer than cow farts.
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Old 02-09-2013, 08:19 AM   #14
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Re: Aren't we looking at it wrong, we just got a gift.

Originally Posted by Danno View Post
Disagree completely.

He has great anticipation and a great nose for the ball. He does have hands of stone however. He covers very well, but he doesn't play the deep ball in the air very well at all.

He was one of our top playmakers when he played SS for GW. He made two pro-bowls because of it, and it damn sure wasn't because he was popular.
With all due respect, Roman Harper made pro bowls under Williams because of the amount of sacks and overall tackles he made from playing up at the line of scrimmage. It was a good move by Williams in that it got the most out of Roman, but Safeties are simply not meant to camp out at the line of scrimmage. It's one thing to blitz once in a while but he was blitzing easily half the time. We need someone who can cover. Unless Harper is planning on moving to linebacker, then he is going to coninue to hurt us. You saw how little of anything he did this year, when asked to play back more.

We have established that he can't cover the deep pass, and he can't catch. So what exactly is he good at, other than being used out of position?
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If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.
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Old 02-09-2013, 08:52 AM   #15
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Re: Aren't we looking at it wrong, we just got a gift.

Originally Posted by burningmetal View Post
With all due respect, Roman Harper made pro bowls under Williams because of the amount of sacks and overall tackles he made from playing up at the line of scrimmage. It was a good move by Williams in that it got the most out of Roman, but Safeties are simply not meant to camp out at the line of scrimmage. It's one thing to blitz once in a while but he was blitzing easily half the time. We need someone who can cover. Unless Harper is planning on moving to linebacker, then he is going to coninue to hurt us. You saw how little of anything he did this year, when asked to play back more.

We have established that he can't cover the deep pass, and he can't catch. So what exactly is he good at, other than being used out of position?
Playing close to the line is something all Strong Safeties do. He wasn't playing out of position in GW's scheme.

Another well respected poster we all know and love nailed it...

Roman Harper covers great inside of 15 yards. Past that is when he struggles.

That describes almost exactly what traditional Strong Safeties are supposed to do. And backing up LB's in the run and pass is also what they do, and he does that pretty well. Teams do still run the ball.

Basically the only thing he doesn't do well is play Free Safety. Thats why he plays Strong Safety.
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Old 02-09-2013, 09:06 AM   #16
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Re: Aren't we looking at it wrong, we just got a gift.

Harper is nothing more than a undersized LB playing safety. He is what he is fellows...trust me Ryan will see him for what he is worth and if he doesn't cut it in his scheme, he might not see the field much in 2013.
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Old 02-09-2013, 10:46 AM   #17
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Re: Aren't we looking at it wrong, we just got a gift.

Originally Posted by saintfan View Post
Harper is a good player. Maybe we're overpaying him, but he doesn't suck. Poor Roman. He even gets blamed for global warming...
Roman Harper's responsible for global warming!!!! I knew he had something to do with that!
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Old 02-09-2013, 10:56 AM   #18
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Re: Aren't we looking at it wrong, we just got a gift.

My thought is not that roman Harper is the worst player we have In black and gold, that's sedrick Ellis. But roman is an underperforming player in our scheme that will have tradeable value in a scheme like the rams, or titans getting his money off the books and allowing us a fresh start at the position.
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Old 02-10-2013, 05:38 AM   #19
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Re: Aren't we looking at it wrong, we just got a gift.

Originally Posted by Danno View Post
Playing close to the line is something all Strong Safeties do. He wasn't playing out of position in GW's scheme.

Another well respected poster we all know and love nailed it...

Roman Harper covers great inside of 15 yards. Past that is when he struggles.

That describes almost exactly what traditional Strong Safeties are supposed to do. And backing up LB's in the run and pass is also what they do, and he does that pretty well. Teams do still run the ball.

Basically the only thing he doesn't do well is play Free Safety. Thats why he plays Strong Safety.
I'm not real sure where you are getting this idea about strong safeties. Playing up close is most decidedly NOT what they do. When you load the box to stop the run, your SS will play up, Obviously. But in a normal package, your safeties are called safeties for a reason. You must be able to cover. Sammy Knight is a good example of how a less than stellar athlete can be effective when he understands how to play his position, and diagnose plays.

No one expects Harper to run stride for stride with elite WR's, but as a safety you have to have good enough instincts to anticipate and run to a spot. The idea is to force the quarterback to make a perfect throw to beat your Corners. This doesn't mean the safety has to be perfectly in stride, is simply means he has to give the necessary support that the defense calls for.

He does not do this. He has been ok covering certain TE's in tight zones, but he is very limited even there. He and Jenkins graded out as the two worst safeties for a reason. I'm not calling the guy names, or hating him in any way. This is just intellectual honesty, and I don't think I'm going out on a limb. The most common excuse I've heard for our safeties is that they wouldn't be so bad if we had a pass rush... Grades don't have anything to do with your teammates. Only pure stats are effected in those terms. It doesn't take these guys 5 seconds to get beat. They get flat out burned, with consistency. That's how they grade out so bad.

But most people could see with their own eyes, before looking at any grades, that our safeties are almost never where they are supposed to be.

One other thing about harper, there is a difference between playing close, and playing AT the line of scrimmage. Harper was used to blitz extremely often. That meant that pretty much anytime he didn't get there, there was going to be someone wide open. This is why you normally blitz a linebacker, and only occasionally use a safety or corner to blitz as a way of keeping your opponent off balance. Because our defense became so predictable, teams figured it out, and that's when we began to suck on Defense. Yes we have less than stellar personnel, but then that's kinda the point. When you don't have good players, you can only mask their deficiencies for so long. Hence the reason they must go. We absolutely have to upgrade our pass rush, but there's no denying we have to do the same at safety.

If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.
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Old 02-10-2013, 03:28 PM   #20
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Re: Aren't we looking at it wrong, we just got a gift.

Well, I guess we'll just have to let Rob Ryan figure out what to do with Harper. I like him but I don't know if he's worth the money......in fact I'm sure he's not.
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