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Kristian: Restructure Brees? Not so simple, and awfully risky

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by AlaskaSaints Offense wins GAMES. Defense wins CHAMPIONSHIPS. We spent our wad on offense so we set records every year. Our defense set records last year as well... ;-/ Alaska BS. Our 25th ranked defense did not win ...

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Old 02-24-2013, 06:36 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by AlaskaSaints View Post
Offense wins GAMES.
Defense wins CHAMPIONSHIPS.

We spent our wad on offense so we set records every year.

Our defense set records last year as well... ;-/

Alaska
BS. Our 25th ranked defense did not win any championship or Super Bowl.
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Old 02-24-2013, 11:28 PM   #22
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Re: Kristian: Restructure Brees? Not so simple, and awfully risky

Originally Posted by TheOak View Post
And I can appreciate the "hope", but *****ing about it a year later seems to be some people's only reason to live.

I am obviously one of the few that believes two things, I would NEVER intentionally lower the income that comes into my home and takes care of my family, and the only person that is responsible for his contract size is the person that gave it to him.

The guy selling coffee at $10 a cup is not evil, the guy who bought it is an idiot. The Saints did not HAVE TO pay him anything, they could have moved on.



We shall see how it plays out. Denver seems to have done just fine paying Manning, Flacco is about to score huge, Rogers will do the same.... We are not the only team that feels its worth paying a super star QB 20% of your cap.

There is a lot of judging going on about a man based off of what someone else pays him.

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No, they didn't HAVE to pay him. But they sure had to pay him what he was demanding or face an uncertain period of mediocrity, without a proven QB.

I wouldn't lower the income in my home either. Guess what? Brees was getting a raise. Millions of dollars on top of the already millions of dollars he was receiving. There is no realistic comparison, bro. He could have gotten a 20 million dollar total raise, and left the team a little more cap room, but instead he wanted to be paid more than guys who have won more games, and just as many (in Brady's case, more) championships. Leaving our cap situation a mess.

I think this subject is coming up again because there were people who said at the time he signed the deal, that it wouldn't hurt us, because "Mickey will figure it out". Mickey ain't figuring nothing out. He's being forced to dump people and restructure others which will only make it more difficult in the future. As I said, I believe we'll rebuild in time, but make no mistake, it will be a major over haul.

It was going to happen someday anyway, but this shortens the window for the current team.

By the way, other players demanding ridiculous amounts of money aren't any better. But they don't play for the Saints, therefore no one here cares about them. Those teams didn't have the kind of cap problem the Saints had at the time of the deal. We had nothing left. So it was easy to see this crap coming.
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If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.
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Old 02-24-2013, 11:31 PM   #23
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Re: Kristian: Restructure Brees? Not so simple, and awfully risky

Dat Drew is damn disappointing!!!!
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Old 02-24-2013, 11:32 PM   #24
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Re: Kristian: Restructure Brees? Not so simple, and awfully risky

That defense created 39 turnovers, and let's be real, they won the vikings game with all the turnovers they caused. Our offense sucked that day. Then they were huge against the Colts in the Superbowl. You don't have to be dominant, but you have to make plays. It's a team game. Teams win championships.
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Old 02-25-2013, 03:03 AM   #25
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Re: Kristian: Restructure Brees? Not so simple, and awfully risky

Originally Posted by TheOak View Post
BS. Our 25th ranked defense did not win any championship or Super Bowl.
But we set an ALL TIME record, no? Most points allowed?

We won't win a Championship without a defense, so I call BS on your calling BS.

Alaska
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Old 02-25-2013, 07:54 AM   #26
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Re: Kristian: Restructure Brees? Not so simple, and awfully risky

Originally Posted by burningmetal View Post
No, they didn't HAVE to pay him. But they sure had to pay him what he was demanding or face an uncertain period of mediocrity, without a proven QB.

I wouldn't lower the income in my home either. Guess what? Brees was getting a raise. Millions of dollars on top of the already millions of dollars he was receiving. There is no realistic comparison, bro. He could have gotten a 20 million dollar total raise, and left the team a little more cap room, but instead he wanted to be paid more than guys who have won more games, and just as many (in Brady's case, more) championships. Leaving our cap situation a mess.

I think this subject is coming up again because there were people who said at the time he signed the deal, that it wouldn't hurt us, because "Mickey will figure it out". Mickey ain't figuring nothing out. He's being forced to dump people and restructure others which will only make it more difficult in the future. As I said, I believe we'll rebuild in time, but make no mistake, it will be a major over haul.

It was going to happen someday anyway, but this shortens the window for the current team.

By the way, other players demanding ridiculous amounts of money aren't any better. But they don't play for the Saints, therefore no one here cares about them. Those teams didn't have the kind of cap problem the Saints had at the time of the deal. We had nothing left. So it was easy to see this crap coming.
You are correct, $20m is an unrelateable factor....


So is going to work each day knowing that one wrong move from either you or your opponent could leave you crippled for the remaining years of your life with no want to earn an income. This is a huge driver for a person that was told a few years ago he would probably never play again.

Fk how many of you can relate to going to work there there is an opponent? How many of us can relate to have a written contract with their employer?

Those players that take a home team discount show immaturity in life, and they put the team before their family. At the end of the day, if Drew had taken a cheaper contract, and had a career ending injury in the opening drive against Washington, we would be discussing picking a QB in the draft and how well Daniel would or wouldn't do.... Notice no one would be thinking of Drew or his family.

Am I defending Drew? nope... There is nothing to defend. LOOMIS/PAYTON/BENSON paid him that contract. Is it Drews responsibility to look out for the entire team? Nope that is LOOMIS/PAYTON/BENSON. If they entered into a contract that they could not handle that is their fault.

I am defending a mans right to seek and get as much money as an employer will pay him. Market value and timing is what dictates that number.

To play class warfare because Drew makes more money than all of us put together is down right .... Well.. liberal.. and one should consider what values they really focus on. Drew Brees is a small private business, and he has the right to ask any prices he wants... No one HAS to pay them.

I am not saying anyone has to like it, however the drone of that sentiment being the first thing out of some peoples keyboards is getting quite annoying.


As far as for the OP... LOL The Saints do not make the call on restructuring a contract. The player has that word.
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Old 02-25-2013, 08:19 AM   #27
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Re: Kristian: Restructure Brees? Not so simple, and awfully risky

Originally Posted by TheOak View Post
You are correct, $20m is an unrelateable factor....


So is going to work each day knowing that one wrong move from either you or your opponent could leave you crippled for the remaining years of your life with no want to earn an income. This is a huge driver for a person that was told a few years ago he would probably never play again.

Fk how many of you can relate to going to work there there is an opponent? How many of us can relate to have a written contract with their employer?

Those players that take a home team discount show immaturity in life, and they put the team before their family. At the end of the day, if Drew had taken a cheaper contract, and had a career ending injury in the opening drive against Washington, we would be discussing picking a QB in the draft and how well Daniel would or wouldn't do.... Notice no one would be thinking of Drew or his family.

Am I defending Drew? nope... There is nothing to defend. LOOMIS/PAYTON/BENSON paid him that contract. Is it Drews responsibility to look out for the entire team? Nope that is LOOMIS/PAYTON/BENSON. If they entered into a contract that they could not handle that is their fault.

I am defending a mans right to seek and get as much money as an employer will pay him. Market value and timing is what dictates that number.

To play class warfare because Drew makes more money than all of us put together is down right .... Well.. liberal.. and one should consider what values they really focus on. Drew Brees is a small private business, and he has the right to ask any prices he wants... No one HAS to pay them.

I am not saying anyone has to like it, however the drone of that sentiment being the first thing out of some peoples keyboards is getting quite annoying.


As far as for the OP... LOL The Saints do not make the call on restructuring a contract. The player has that word.
Again, it's not a discount to give a guy a 20 something million dollar raise, as opposed to 40 million. You're telling me that market value drives the number, when I already said as much. I know this quite well, and it is what bothers me with athletes. Comparing my opinion to that of a liberal is downright insulting.

A liberal tells a man to give up what he has earned in life. Ordinary people don't get to dictate how much they make to their employer. Athletes, however, do. You continue to say that we can't blame Drew or any other athlete for taking what someone gives them. I don't blame anyone for that. But the difference is that the Saints made him an offer they felt he was worth, (which was already a lot more than we could realistically afford) and he rejected it. He dictated the terms. The Saints needed him, so they had no choice.

A sport is a business just like any other. But an athlete is not like any other employee. You can let a desk job worker go and replace him with any of the thousands who are waiting in line to do the same things. But there are only a few exceptional athletes.

The idea that he may get hurt has nothing to do with anything. Drew is set for life, and for a little less money, he still would have been. If he gets a career ending injury, his money won't bring him back. He can get surgery to help make the rest of his life as comfortable as possible, but money doesn't cure anything. I wish no player would ever get hurt, but it's part of the game, and it's what players have used in part to drive up their salaries for years. But with athletes now in the 100 million range, the idea of being paid as much as possible has much to do with ego, and little to do with financial security, anymore.

Does Drew have a responsibility to take care of his team? Technically no. Does he want to win another championship? I would think so, but his contract hurts dearly. Even the hated Alex Rodriguez took an actual pay CUT to help the Yankees sign other players, once before. He knows he can afford it. I don't buy this crap about players worrying about injury.

If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.
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Old 02-25-2013, 08:35 AM   #28
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Re: Kristian: Restructure Brees? Not so simple, and awfully risky

Originally Posted by burningmetal View Post
Again, it's not a discount to give a guy a 20 something million dollar raise, as opposed to 40 million. You're telling me that market value drives the number, when I already said as much. I know this quite well, and it is what bothers me with athletes. Comparing my opinion to that of a liberal is downright insulting.

A liberal tells a man to give up what he has earned in life. Ordinary people don't get to dictate how much they make to their employer. Athletes, however, do. You continue to say that we can't blame Drew or any other athlete for taking what someone gives them. I don't blame anyone for that. But the difference is that the Saints made him an offer they felt he was worth, (which was already a lot more than we could realistically afford) and he rejected it. He dictated the terms. The Saints needed him, so they had no choice.

A sport is a business just like any other. But an athlete is not like any other employee. You can let a desk job worker go and replace him with any of the thousands who are waiting in line to do the same things. But there are only a few exceptional athletes.

The idea that he may get hurt has nothing to do with anything. Drew is set for life, and for a little less money, he still would have been. If he gets a career ending injury, his money won't bring him back. He can get surgery to help make the rest of his life as comfortable as possible, but money doesn't cure anything. I wish no player would ever get hurt, but it's part of the game, and it's what players have used in part to drive up their salaries for years. But with athletes now in the 100 million range, the idea of being paid as much as possible has much to do with ego, and little to do with financial security, anymore.

Does Drew have a responsibility to take care of his team? Technically no. Does he want to win another championship? I would think so, but his contract hurts dearly. Even the hated Alex Rodriguez took a pay cut to help the Yankees sign other players, once before. He knows he can afford it. I don't buy this crap about players worrying about injury.
Dont be insulted. It is what it is....

An athlete is no different from any employee. Neither can dictate what their employer pays them, and neither has an employer that can dictate what they make, they can only negotiate. They can both shop their value anywhere else, if they are not making what they want to make. If anything the truth is the opposite. Normal employees can shop the market with any employer any time they choose to in any point in their career. An athlete in the NFL can not as a team can restrict and decide when that person can shop the market because of contractual terms.

What is being missed is that for a professional athlete in the NFL who's contract has come to an end there is no "pay raise"... A pay raise for them is if they hold out before their contract is finished for more money. When a pro football players contract is over, its over... He is not getting paid anything until he negotiates another contract. As far as for any person being set up for life that is merely an opinion and not for you nor I to decide. There are plenty of professional athletes that were "set up for life" in public opinion but for what ever reason went broke. Same as lottery winners that went through their winnings. The dollar value clouds peoples judgement, it is subjective, and once you change million to thousand or hundred no one throws around the word greed...

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Old 02-25-2013, 08:44 AM   #29
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Re: Kristian: Restructure Brees? Not so simple, and awfully risky

If our defense was ranked anywheres from 15-20th in the league we wouldn't be having these conversations right now.

Drew didn't play well in some games...
Jimmy Graham dropped alot of passes...
Defense stunk week in and week out.
Don't even begin to mention the shutout vs Tampa. You don't get credit for beating a bunch of bums....
That what good teams are suppsoed to do to bad teams....Beat the like red headed step children
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Old 02-25-2013, 09:01 AM   #30
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Re: Kristian: Restructure Brees? Not so simple, and awfully risky

Originally Posted by TheOak View Post
Dont be insulted. It is what it is....

An athlete is no different from any employee. Neither can dictate what their employer pays them, and neither has an employer that can dictate what they make, they can only negotiate. They can both shop their value anywhere else, if they are not making what they want to make. If anything the truth is the opposite. Normal employees can shop the market with any employer any time they choose to in any point in their career. An athlete in the NFL can not as a team can restrict and decide when that person can shop the market because of contractual terms.

What is being missed is that for a professional athlete in the NFL who's contract has come to an end there is no "pay raise"... A pay raise for them is if they hold out before their contract is finished for more money. When a pro football players contract is over, its over... He is not getting paid anything until he negotiates another contract. As far as for any person being set up for life that is merely an opinion and not for you nor I to decide. There are plenty of professional athletes that were "set up for life" in public opinion but for what ever reason went broke. Same as lottery winners that went through their winnings. The dollar value clouds peoples judgement, it is subjective, and once you change million to thousand or hundred no one throws around the word greed...
This is absurdly inaccurate. A free agent, as Drew was last off season, is not restricted in any way. He set the terms and would not settle for less. That is not negotiating. Only in theory could the Saints have let him shop elsewhere. They absolutely HAD to re-sign, for reasons I plainly explained. Reasons which trump your argument that an athlete is like any other employee. There aren't many exceptional athletes. And we aren't in a position to draft high enough for another QB, much less be guaranteed that he'd work out.

Your comment about players not actually receiving a raise? Don't play the technicality game with me. I say that general terms. You know exactly what I'm talking about. He made 60 million in his previous contract. If the Saints valued him the same, they would have offered the same amount. But I believe the initial offer was around 97 million. Only in technical terms is that not a 37 million dollar raise. I get annoyed with meaningless nit picking. It's 37 million more than he got the last time, no matter the terms.

As for the "set for life" comment, you're argument against it only applies to the most undeserving of people. Yes, there have been some who seemed set, and promptly blew it. That's their problem. If Drew is that stupid (I don't think he is) then what's another couple million, right? I guess he'll just fart that away, too? No one deserves more money for the possibility that they might blow it. If he manages his money even half good, he is absolutely set. We're not even factoring in his endorsement deals, which bring in untold more millions.

I don't consider Drew to be a horrible, greedy person. I just think he and many others have lost perspective. Showing a little humility and caring about your teammates does not mean you don't care about your own family. He has done his part in taking care of his family. But this is not how it goes anymore, and I know it. This isn't news to me. The only reason I'm still talking about it at all is for those who claimed it wouldn't hurt the team last year.

If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.
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