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RockyMountainSaint 02-27-2013 06:20 PM

Restructuring of Contracts Consequences and Repercussions Thread
 
This is starting to look like any other financial "Bubble".
The teams are paying out guaranteed $ for the ability to win now.
If these dudes get hurt or suck, the Saints are on the hook for tons of "dead money" in their cap.
Teams are banking on the cap increasing dramatically when the new tv contract kicks in.
Are they right for gambling this way?

RockyMountainSaint 02-27-2013 06:23 PM

Re: Restructuring of Contracts Consequences and Repercussions Thread
 
1 Attachment(s)
C'mon y'all smart Who Dats!

Let's check into what all of this "so called" restructuring means.

I smell a Conspiracy!

Danno 02-27-2013 06:48 PM

Re: Restructuring of Contracts Consequences and Repercussions Thread
 
Well if your sure that player will be around and perform, its a win-win.

Most of these guys were due this money anyway, so it helps to restrucure (or balance out) the cap hits. They're calculated risks we really had no alternatives to.

Hawthorne - Minor risk, minor injuries last year.
Colston - Anything can happen, but I expect him around a few more years
Grubbs - OG's typically have a long NFL career. Grubbs was a safe risk.
Evans- See Grubbs comments

The only HUGE risk will be Brees. If we convert most of his money to guaranteed and he gets seriously injured, we're up Falcon creek without a paddle.

Its a gamble no doubt, but on the surface looks to be relatively safe.

Jamessr 02-27-2013 07:01 PM

Re: Restructuring of Contracts Consequences and Repercussions Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Danno (Post 482475)
The only HUGE risk will be Brees. If we convert most of his money to guaranteed and he gets seriously injured, we're up Falcon creek without a paddle.

Its a gamble no doubt, but on the surface looks to be relatively safe.

We have Chase Danie..... Wait nevermind

saintsfan403 02-27-2013 07:01 PM

Re: Restructuring of Contracts Consequences and Repercussions Thread
 
At the same time, restructuring his contract so we can afford to keep a good oline will help to keep Drew healthy. Win-win.

RockyMountainSaint 02-27-2013 08:42 PM

Re: Restructuring of Contracts Consequences and Repercussions Thread
 
C'mon, how far can you kick the dead cap money down the road?

If a player has a "big" contract but doesn't perform? Cut him.

If you turn that into guaranteed dollars? You MUST pay that. It becomes dead money. If they have a career ending injury? You MUST pay that. Dead money.

I don't care that it is all the rage in the NFL, I don't think it is sustainable.

Danno 02-27-2013 09:05 PM

Re: Restructuring of Contracts Consequences and Repercussions Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RockyMountainSaint (Post 482491)
C'mon, how far can you kick the dead cap money down the road?

If a player has a "big" contract but doesn't perform? Cut him.

If you turn that into guaranteed dollars? You MUST pay that. It becomes dead money. If they have a career ending injury? You MUST pay that. Dead money.

I don't care that it is all the rage in the NFL, I don't think it is sustainable.

Its only dead money if the player is cut. If he plays all years of his contract, it simply makes each year more balanced cap wise.

hagan714 02-27-2013 09:10 PM

Re: Restructuring of Contracts Consequences and Repercussions Thread
 
yep bite the bullet for a year or two will save you tons of cap space.

besides these deal do not really kick money to the back end of the contract as much as reduce the back end of the contract by spacing the back end out over the length of contract.

Seer1 02-27-2013 09:34 PM

Re: Restructuring of Contracts Consequences and Repercussions Thread
 
1 Attachment(s)
Ummmm...

FinSaint 02-27-2013 09:42 PM

Re: Restructuring of Contracts Consequences and Repercussions Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Danno (Post 482475)
Well if your sure that player will be around and perform, its a win-win.

Most of these guys were due this money anyway, so it helps to restrucure (or balance out) the cap hits. They're calculated risks we really had no alternatives to.

Hawthorne - Minor risk, minor injuries last year.
Colston - Anything can happen, but I expect him around a few more years
Grubbs - OG's typically have a long NFL career. Grubbs was a safe risk.
Evans- See Grubbs comments

The only HUGE risk will be Brees. If we convert most of his money to guaranteed and he gets seriously injured, we're up Falcon creek without a paddle.

Its a gamble no doubt, but on the surface looks to be relatively safe.


Well put.

Hopefully the new TV deals will increase the cap more than the more conservative reports have stated they will, since these restructures are increasing the annual cap hit of the coming years, but still low risk moves IMO.

hagan714 02-27-2013 09:45 PM

Re: Restructuring of Contracts Consequences and Repercussions Thread
 
Benson must of had a very good weekend in Vegas. very good

lee909 02-27-2013 11:31 PM

We must be close the cap now.The media keep saying its $15ml but didn't Loomis say it was around $10ml before Lofton restructure?.
Clearing the way for a LT?.

RockyMountainSaint 02-28-2013 01:15 AM

Re: Restructuring of Contracts Consequences and Repercussions Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Danno (Post 482475)
Well if your sure that player will be around and perform, its a win-win.

Most of these guys were due this money anyway, so it helps to restrucure (or balance out) the cap hits. They're calculated risks we really had no alternatives to.

Hawthorne - Minor risk, minor injuries last year.
Colston - Anything can happen, but I expect him around a few more years
Grubbs - OG's typically have a long NFL career. Grubbs was a safe risk.
Evans- See Grubbs comments

The only HUGE risk will be Brees. If we convert most of his money to guaranteed and he gets seriously injured, we're up Falcon creek without a paddle.

Its a gamble no doubt, but on the surface looks to be relatively safe.

So, you think that all of these players will perform at the current level, with no injuries, for the life of their contracts?
BTW, I bet the contracts were extended by at least one more year for each player.
Guaranteed $ is going to reset the NFL.
Prudent teams that don't rush into this boom market might have a dynasty in a few years.

lee909 02-28-2013 01:24 AM

One if the reports is saying we have added around $4.4ml to the 2014/15 caps by these deals.Better hope that cap rises with the new tv deal.

lee909 02-28-2013 01:27 AM

The New Orleans Saints have restructured contracts with receiver Marques Colston and guards Jahri Evans and Ben Grubbs to create more in salary-cap space, league sources have confirmed. They also restructured linebacker David Hawthorne's deal, according to ESPN.com. Add Hawthorne's reported restructuring and the Saints have cut around $10 million off their 2013 salary cap figure with these four reworked deals.

The deals don't involve pay cuts. Instead the players converted portions of their base salaries into signing bonuses -- a very common practice used by NFL teams to create short-term salary-cap relief.

As of last count, the Saints were estimated to be around $15 million over the projected 2013 salary cap of roughly $122 million-$123 million -- though that number is very fluid as they continue to rework deals and start to make some tender offers to their restricted free agents.

Evans' deal, which was confirmed by agent Jerrold Colton, will save the Saints roughly $3 million in 2013 cap space. According to salary figures, Evans' 2013 base salary is now $3.04 million, down from a scheduled $7.2 million. That difference was converted into signing bonus, so Evans will still get all the money up front. But for accounting purposes, that $4.2 million will be spread out over the final four years of his deal. It's the second consecutive offseason where the Saints have asked Evans to restructure his contract.

Grubbs' deal will also save the Saints $3 million in 2013 cap space, as first reported by ESPN.com's Pat Yasinskas. Grubbs converted $4 million of his 2013 salary into signing bonus. His base salary will go from $5.2 million to $1.2 million.

Hawthorne's deal will save the Saints $2.05 million, according to Yasinskas. He converted a scheduled $3 million roster bonus into a signing bonus.

Colston's deal was first reported by CBS' Jason La Canfora. Pro Football Talk later added details which have since been confirmed. Colston converted $2.8 million of his base salary into signing bonus, which will create $2.1 million in cap savings this year.

La Canfora also reported that the Saints have offered new, discounted deals to defensive end Will Smith and linebacker Jonathan Vilma that would allow them to stay. No specific details of such offers are known, but league sources have confirmed that the Saints and players have been discussing the possibility.

The Saints already restructured linebacker Curtis Lofton's contract in a similar fashion earlier this offseason, and released veteran tight end David Thomas.

The restructured contracts for Evans and Grubbs will add about $1 million to their respective salary cap numbers from 2014-2016 as each have three years left on their contracts after the 2013 season. Restructuring the deals for Colston and Hawthorne will add around $700,000 to each of their cap numbers from 2014-2016.

Add the $1 million per season from Lofton's restructured contract, and the Saints will add around $4.4 million to their salary cap figure each year from 2014-2016. Lofton will also add $1 million to the 2017 salary cap number.

-- Larry Holder contributed to this story.

FinSaint 02-28-2013 03:36 AM

Re: Restructuring of Contracts Consequences and Repercussions Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lee909 (Post 482538)
The restructured contracts for Evans and Grubbs will add about $1 million to their respective salary cap numbers from 2014-2016 as each have three years left on their contracts after the 2013 season. Restructuring the deals for Colston and Hawthorne will add around $700,000 to each of their cap numbers from 2014-2016.

Add the $1 million per season from Lofton's restructured contract, and the Saints will add around $4.4 million to their salary cap figure each year from 2014-2016. Lofton will also add $1 million to the 2017 salary cap number.

-- Larry Holder contributed to this story.


But take away Smith's huge contract from that equation - and Villma's too - and it suddenly doesn't look half bad going forward.

And at least all of these guys who restructured - maybe besides Hawthorne - are known commodities, so even if their cap hits will increase a little bit, at least you know what you're paying for.

lee909 02-28-2013 03:41 AM

We have added about $4.4ml to the next two(2014/15) caps.

TheOak 02-28-2013 04:38 AM

You only do this with proven talent with the years to finish the deal.

Is there some risk? Sure...


Not as much risk as an onside kick after the half in the Super Bowl.

Quite frankly and please don't take offense, most of us manage a 401k and a checkbook at most. Maybe we should let a professional that has a proven track record do his job.

hagan714 02-28-2013 05:11 AM

Re: Restructuring of Contracts Consequences and Repercussions Thread
 
well lets see the final paper work when it as all said and done.

mickey has a plan

SaintsBro 02-28-2013 06:20 AM

Re: Restructuring of Contracts Consequences and Repercussions Thread
 
More and more teams are going to start doing this type of thing once it catches on. The Saints and Loomis are actually at the forefront of the league with this stuff. New England always gets held out as an example of winning and being ridiculously $30 million under the cap every year or whatever, but they are really a freakish aberration, even replicating a fraction of that here is a good thing for any team.

Danno 02-28-2013 07:52 AM

Re: Restructuring of Contracts Consequences and Repercussions Thread
 
Quote:

La Canfora also reported that the Saints have offered new, discounted deals to defensive end Will Smith and linebacker Jonathan Vilma that would allow them to stay.

So they aren't restructures, they're new deals at a lowered amount. I'd imagine they'll do the same with Harper and perhaps Greer?

FinSaint 02-28-2013 08:02 AM

Re: Restructuring of Contracts Consequences and Repercussions Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Danno (Post 482609)
So they aren't restructures, they're new deals at a lowered amount. I'd imagine they'll do the same with Harper and perhaps Greer?


Lets just hope that they're severe enough pay cuts , so that if they stay they'll no longer be overpaid ($3M/per) or if they choose not to sign the new contracts they'll end up seeking a new employer at the end of all of this.

Rugby Saint II 02-28-2013 01:44 PM

Re: Restructuring of Contracts Consequences and Repercussions Thread
 
Benson must have figured out that you can't take it with you.

Cruize 02-28-2013 01:52 PM

Re: Restructuring of Contracts Consequences and Repercussions Thread
 
Cut Smith and Vilma and be done with it. Smith would be overpaid at the vet minimum and Vilma just doesn't fit in the 3-4.

Danno 02-28-2013 01:55 PM

Re: Restructuring of Contracts Consequences and Repercussions Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cruize (Post 482725)
Cut Smith and Vilma and be done with it. Smith would be overpaid at the vet minimum and Vilma just doesn't fit in the 3-4.

What makes you think Vilma doesn't fit in the 3-4?

He's ideal for the WILB spot.

Cruize 02-28-2013 02:20 PM

Re: Restructuring of Contracts Consequences and Repercussions Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Danno (Post 482729)
What makes you think Vilma doesn't fit in the 3-4?

The Saints could and have done worse for sure. But, his size, age, injury concerns and large salary are just not a great fit for the team. A 3-4 ILB has to shed blocks well. Vilma doesn't. Not discounting the fact that he brings heart, effort and valuable experience to the table. Give him a shot at the vet minimum with incentives. Otherwise, it's time to move on.

Danno 02-28-2013 04:45 PM

Re: Restructuring of Contracts Consequences and Repercussions Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cruize (Post 482747)
The Saints could and have done worse for sure. But, his size, age, injury concerns and large salary are just not a great fit for the team. A 3-4 ILB has to shed blocks well. Vilma doesn't. Not discounting the fact that he brings heart, effort and valuable experience to the table. Give him a shot at the vet minimum with incentives. Otherwise, it's time to move on.

His size is fine, so is his age. We're restructuring his large salary so that probably won't be an issue. The 3-4 WILB isn't any different than a 4-3 WLB so he won't be shedding blocks any more than he did in the 4-3.

Lofton is the one who'll now be taking on the OG's with regularity. I'm more worried about him than Vilma.

The LB best suited for that SILB role is actually Martez Wilson.

Seer1 02-28-2013 05:31 PM

Re: Restructuring of Contracts Consequences and Repercussions Thread
 
What's the latest with Ellis?

Danno 02-28-2013 05:47 PM

Re: Restructuring of Contracts Consequences and Repercussions Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Seer1 (Post 482809)
What's the latest with Ellis?

He just bought a Ferrarri.

Seer1 02-28-2013 05:51 PM

Re: Restructuring of Contracts Consequences and Repercussions Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Danno (Post 482814)
He just bought a Ferrarri.

Now maybe he'll be able to catch a quarterback.

CharityMike 02-28-2013 05:52 PM

Re: Restructuring of Contracts Consequences and Repercussions Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Danno (Post 482814)
He just bought a Ferrarri.

A hot wheels version anyway :hallucinate:


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