Go Back   New Orleans Saints - blackandgold.com > Main > Saints
Shop Horizontal

Performance Based Value: New Orleans Saints

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by Danno Lofton graded worse than Vilma, do we want send him packing too? It would be foolish to NOT want these guys back at a much reduced salary, since we currently have no one that has proven ...

Like Tree5Likes

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-04-2013, 08:42 AM   #11
Threaded by TheOak
10000 POST CLUB
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cypress Tx.
Posts: 15,795

Show Printable Version Email this Page
Rating: (0 votes - average)

Originally Posted by Danno View Post
Lofton graded worse than Vilma, do we want send him packing too?

It would be foolish to NOT want these guys back at a much reduced salary, since we currently have no one that has proven better.

If and when we acquire better players, then cut them.
Where do you see a contract value grade vs performance on Lofton?

I searched the article and found nothing on him.
Views: 3159
Old 03-04-2013, 09:00 AM   #12
Got a problem?
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 10,489
Re: Performance Based Value: New Orleans Saints

I guess they didn't grade everyone. It couldn't have been that bad if he didn't make the list and was a key acquisition... I would think.
papz is offline  
Old 03-04-2013, 09:34 AM   #13
Site Donor 2014
Truth Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Spanish Fort Alabama
Posts: 15,596
Re: Performance Based Value: New Orleans Saints

Originally Posted by TheOak View Post
Where do you see a contract value grade vs performance on Lofton?

I searched the article and found nothing on him.
But you called out Vilma and Smith, knowing both are currently being re-negotiated and that everyone that wants them back wants them back at a huge pay reduction.
Danno is offline  
Old 03-04-2013, 10:02 AM   #14
10000 POST CLUB
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cypress Tx.
Posts: 15,795
Re: Performance Based Value: New Orleans Saints

Originally Posted by Danno View Post
But you called out Vilma and Smith, knowing both are currently being re-negotiated and that everyone that wants them back wants them back at a huge pay reduction.
I called out Vilma and Smith because they were graded. You called out Loften for?

Ive seen zero news that there are negotiations indeed happening between the Saints and Vilma or Smith.

The Saints have gone public saying they 'want" to restructure but that has yet to happen.
Sources: Saints Seek Restructured Deals For Vilma, Smith* - Sports News - ABC News Radio

Until there is a restructure, there is no restructure. Until there is news that restructuring is in progress, there is no restructuring going on.
TheOak is online now  
Old 03-04-2013, 10:48 AM   #15
Site Donor 2014
Truth Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Spanish Fort Alabama
Posts: 15,596
Re: Performance Based Value: New Orleans Saints

Originally Posted by TheOak View Post
I called out Vilma and Smith because they were graded. You called out Loften for?

Ive seen zero news that there are negotiations indeed happening between the Saints and Vilma or Smith.

The Saints have gone public saying they 'want" to restructure but that has yet to happen.
Sources: Saints Seek Restructured Deals For Vilma, Smith* - Sports News - ABC News Radio

Until there is a restructure, there is no restructure. Until there is news that restructuring is in progress, there is no restructuring going on.
But you claimed that "yet some want them back". I don't recall a single person saying they wanted them back at their current salary.
Danno is offline  
Old 03-04-2013, 10:57 AM   #16
10000 POST CLUB
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cypress Tx.
Posts: 15,795
Originally Posted by Danno View Post
But you claimed that "yet some want them back". I don't recall a single person saying they wanted them back at their current salary.
So you've never read one single quote on these boards along the lines of "Vilma is the leader of our defense, I would like to see him come back".

I'm treating the absence of "at a reduced pay" as not a condition since it wasn't mentioned.


Again, your basis for your statement on Lofton? "Lofton graded worse than Vilma".
TheOak is online now  
Old 03-04-2013, 11:18 AM   #17
Site Donor 2014
Truth Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Spanish Fort Alabama
Posts: 15,596
Re: Performance Based Value: New Orleans Saints

Originally Posted by TheOak View Post
So you've never read one single quote on these boards along the lines of "Vilma is the leader of our defense, I would like to see him come back".

I'm treating the absence of "at a reduced pay" as not a condition since it wasn't mentioned.

Again, your basis for your statement on Lofton? "Lofton graded worse than Vilma".
I have never seen or read one single quote that said anyone wanted them back at their current salaries. I'm just curious who the "some" are you're referring to. Another board perhaps?

Lofton graded worse than Vilma on PFF grades, which I believe are the grades used for this article.

Vilma was rated 100th, and Lofton was rated 104th.

Edit: Vilma ranked 100th at OLB, Lofton ranked 104th at MLB, so I'm correct but it is kinda apples and oranges.
Danno is offline  
Old 03-04-2013, 11:43 AM   #18
10000 POST CLUB
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cypress Tx.
Posts: 15,795
Re: Performance Based Value: New Orleans Saints

Originally Posted by Danno View Post
I have never seen or read one single quote that said anyone wanted them back at their current salaries. I'm just curious who the "some" are you're referring to. Another board perhaps?

Lofton graded worse than Vilma on PFF grades, which I believe are the grades used for this article.

Vilma was rated 100th, and Lofton was rated 104th.

Edit: Vilma ranked 100th at OLB, Lofton ranked 104th at MLB, so I'm correct but it is kinda apples and oranges.
PFF ranked them on performance for 2012... That is a different approach than Performance Based Value. While one player may preform greater than another his contract may be grossly large making him a lessor value.

It looks like PFF is not finished as they have done QBs, Kickers and Punters, and Teams but not by the remaining positions just yet.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...e-based-value/

If someone doesn't say they want him back and INCLUDE "at a lower price" I see no caveat to that desire.

I will ask this question again... Vilma is in his last year, there is no restructuring for it, there is no place to redistribute to. So... are you talking a new contract or an extension? Do you think that with his steady decline in the last few years that we cant find better value for the next 3-4 years?

His AV (Average Value) has been in a steady decline since 2010.

Johnathan Vilmas AV for 2012 - 3
Jonathan Vilma NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

Loftons AV for comparison. 2012 - 7
Jonathan Vilma NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

Vilma AV for 2012 = 3 Cap hit for 2013 $8.6m
Lofton AV for 1021 = 7 ... Cap hit for 2013 $3.1m (Lofton restructured a few weeks ago)


I'm not sure Lofton is a good value comparison for Vilma in regards to this debate lol.

If you play stupid games, you win stupid prizes.

Like and vote https://www.facebook.com/pages/Charl...44287815781246
TheOak is online now  
Old 03-04-2013, 11:49 AM   #19
Site Donor 2014
Truth Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Spanish Fort Alabama
Posts: 15,596
Re: Performance Based Value: New Orleans Saints

Once again, no one said they wanted Vilma or Smith back at their current salaries. There have been posts about them re-structuring, which I pointed out that Vima can not restructure without an extension, which is a re-negotiation.

http://blackandgold.com/saints/55702...-contract.html (Saints, Will Smith reportedly working on restructuring his contract)

http://blackandgold.com/saints/55581...structure.html (Saints to ask Vilma and Smith to restructure)
Danno is offline  
Old 03-04-2013, 03:09 PM   #20
Site Donor
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: lafayette
Posts: 3,664
Re: Performance Based Value: New Orleans Saints

ELLIS has to be the biggest bunk asre player payton ever drafted. he needs to hang it up.
st thomas is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules

LinkBacks (?)
LinkBack to this Thread: http://blackandgold.com/saints/55921-performance-based-value-new-orleans-saints.html
Posted By For Type Date Hits
The Latest Brian De La Puente News | SportSpyder This thread Refback 03-03-2013 09:58 PM 4
The Latest New Orleans Saints News | SportSpyder This thread Refback 03-03-2013 08:07 PM 2
Performance Based Value: New Orleans Saints This thread Refback 03-03-2013 07:38 PM 21


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:39 PM.


Copyright 1997 - 2013 - BlackandGold.com
no new posts