Saints Cap Update 4/1/2013 (Not April Fools)

Danno · 04-01-2013, 10:41 AM

Good stuff Oak, I guess its a pay me now or pay me later with Harper.

The ability to spread his cap hit out over two years means his 2013 job is definitely NOT safe.

I'd bet he's first on the chopping block if there's a free agent we covet.

xan · 04-01-2013, 10:43 AM

Brilliant Oak. Love this. Thanks.

TheOak · 04-01-2013, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by Danno

Good stuff Oak, I guess its a pay me now or pay me later with Harper.

The ability to spread his cap hit out over two years means his 2013 job is definitely NOT safe.

I'd bet he's first on the chopping block if there's a free agent we covet.

Exactly why I am thinking there has been no pay cut or restructure at this point. He will be a June 1st casualty.

Danno · 04-01-2013, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by TheOak

Exactly why I am thinking there has been no pay cut or restructure at this point. He will be a June 1st casualty.

The only problem I see is that his contract say 16 million guaranteed. His bonus money doesn't come close to that figure at all.

So what else is guaranteed in his contract?

My guess is that since they list 6 million as dead money (which also doesn't equal all his bonus money) that the 6 million is the figure we'll be able to spread over two years.

But... can guaranteed money be spread out like that? Its not bonus money, its guaranteed money. I think there's a difference.

TheOak · 04-01-2013, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by Danno

The only problem I see is that his contract say 16 million guaranteed. His bonus money doesn't come close to that figure at all.

So what else is guaranteed in his contract?

My guess is that since they list 6 million as dead money (which also doesn't equal all his bonus money) that the 6 million is the figure we'll be able to spread over two years.

But... can guaranteed money be spread out like that? Its not bonus money, its guaranteed money. I think there's a difference.

I noticed the same thing but didnt interpret previously for the sake of keeping the facts I could find in tact.

I need to dig deeper because there are bonus items that fall into the LTBE and NLTBE category.

Examples: It gets sort of gray as websites to not differentiate.

LTBE: Likely to be earned- Harper had 8 interceptions last season and his bonus for upcoming seasons is 1.5M for 8 interceptions.

NLTBE: Not Likely To be Earned -Harper had 8 interceptions last season and his bonus for upcoming seasons is 1.5M for 16 interceptions.

Utah_Saint · 04-01-2013, 11:12 AM

He brought charts!!!

Damn, I love this site.

Thanks Oak!

Danno · 04-01-2013, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by TheOak

I noticed the same thing but didnt interpret previously for the sake of keeping the facts I could find in tact.

I need to dig deeper because there are bonus items that fall into the LTBE and NLTBE category.

Examples: It gets sort of gray as websites to not differentiate.

LTBE: Likely to be earned- Harper had 8 interceptions last season and his bonus for upcoming seasons is 1.5M for 8 interceptions.

NLTBE: Not Likely To be Earned -Harper had 8 interceptions last season and his bonus for upcoming seasons is 1.5M for 16 interceptions.

I'll call Mickey and have him explain it to me.

We're pretty tight so I'll get back with you later.

Budsdrinker · 04-01-2013, 11:39 AM

Good stuff Oak!!

TheOak · 04-01-2013, 11:54 AM

I found this earlier and it seems the Dead Money Calculation is a little more entailed than just adding up prorated bonuses.

I literally had to spread sheet this to make it balance and this is what I come up with. If I had not, I would have not slept until I figured it out LOL.

Dead Money Owned by 2013 - $1,750,000
Dead money Owned by 2014 - $4,250,000
*There is a 100,000 delta in the equation which I "assume" is a hit for his 100,000 ETBE Work out Bonus. (which apparently you only take a hit for in the cut year)
TOTAL dead money right now is $6.1M

The contrived formula the NFL uses is outlined below.

What happens if a player is cut before his contract expires?
Let’s use John Doe as an example. Let’s say his team decides to cut him with two years remaining on his contract. Take the remaining prorated bonus ($2M per year times two, or $4M), and take his base salary, $1M. Subtract the remaining signing bonus from the base. The result is minus $3M, which means that John would cost his team $3M in dead money (money that essentially goes to waste and can’t be used on another contract.)

This is why many teams wait to cut a player in the final year on their contract, as usually the base salary is significantly higher than the remaining prorated portion of the signing bonus

NFL Salary Cap Primer | Inside Football

Rugby Saint II · 04-01-2013, 12:12 PM

So, we're broke?

04-01-2013, 10:41 AM	#11
Danno Site Donor 2014 Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,640	Re: Saints Cap Update 4/1/2013 (Not April Fools) Good stuff Oak, I guess its a pay me now or pay me later with Harper. The ability to spread his cap hit out over two years means his 2013 job is definitely NOT safe. I'd bet he's first on the chopping block if there's a free agent we covet.

04-01-2013, 10:43 AM	#12
xan Professor Crab and Site Donor 2014 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Princeton Posts: 3,355 Blog Entries: 34	Re: Saints Cap Update 4/1/2013 (Not April Fools) Brilliant Oak. Love this. Thanks.

04-01-2013, 10:46 AM	#13
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 18,978	Re: Saints Cap Update 4/1/2013 (Not April Fools) Originally Posted by Danno Good stuff Oak, I guess its a pay me now or pay me later with Harper. The ability to spread his cap hit out over two years means his 2013 job is definitely NOT safe. I'd bet he's first on the chopping block if there's a free agent we covet. Exactly why I am thinking there has been no pay cut or restructure at this point. He will be a June 1st casualty. K Major likes this.

04-01-2013, 10:56 AM	#14
Danno Site Donor 2014 Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,640	Re: Saints Cap Update 4/1/2013 (Not April Fools) Originally Posted by TheOak Exactly why I am thinking there has been no pay cut or restructure at this point. He will be a June 1st casualty. The only problem I see is that his contract say 16 million guaranteed. His bonus money doesn't come close to that figure at all. So what else is guaranteed in his contract? My guess is that since they list 6 million as dead money (which also doesn't equal all his bonus money) that the 6 million is the figure we'll be able to spread over two years. But... can guaranteed money be spread out like that? Its not bonus money, its guaranteed money. I think there's a difference.

04-01-2013, 11:05 AM	#15
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 18,978	Re: Saints Cap Update 4/1/2013 (Not April Fools) Originally Posted by Danno The only problem I see is that his contract say 16 million guaranteed. His bonus money doesn't come close to that figure at all. So what else is guaranteed in his contract? My guess is that since they list 6 million as dead money (which also doesn't equal all his bonus money) that the 6 million is the figure we'll be able to spread over two years. But... can guaranteed money be spread out like that? Its not bonus money, its guaranteed money. I think there's a difference. I noticed the same thing but didnt interpret previously for the sake of keeping the facts I could find in tact. I need to dig deeper because there are bonus items that fall into the LTBE and NLTBE category. Examples: It gets sort of gray as websites to not differentiate. LTBE: Likely to be earned- Harper had 8 interceptions last season and his bonus for upcoming seasons is 1.5M for 8 interceptions. NLTBE: Not Likely To be Earned -Harper had 8 interceptions last season and his bonus for upcoming seasons is 1.5M for 16 interceptions.

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04-01-2013, 11:12 AM	#16
Utah_Saint Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 3,521	Re: Saints Cap Update 4/1/2013 (Not April Fools) He brought charts!!! Damn, I love this site. Thanks Oak! Rugby Saint II likes this.

04-01-2013, 11:37 AM	#17
Danno Site Donor 2014 Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,640	Re: Saints Cap Update 4/1/2013 (Not April Fools) Originally Posted by TheOak I noticed the same thing but didnt interpret previously for the sake of keeping the facts I could find in tact. I need to dig deeper because there are bonus items that fall into the LTBE and NLTBE category. Examples: It gets sort of gray as websites to not differentiate. LTBE: Likely to be earned- Harper had 8 interceptions last season and his bonus for upcoming seasons is 1.5M for 8 interceptions. NLTBE: Not Likely To be Earned -Harper had 8 interceptions last season and his bonus for upcoming seasons is 1.5M for 16 interceptions. I'll call Mickey and have him explain it to me. We're pretty tight so I'll get back with you later. TheOak likes this.

04-01-2013, 11:39 AM	#18
Budsdrinker A Cajun Transforming TX Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Woodlands, Texas Posts: 2,787	Re: Saints Cap Update 4/1/2013 (Not April Fools) Good stuff Oak!!

04-01-2013, 11:54 AM	#19
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 18,978	Re: Saints Cap Update 4/1/2013 (Not April Fools) I found this earlier and it seems the Dead Money Calculation is a little more entailed than just adding up prorated bonuses. I literally had to spread sheet this to make it balance and this is what I come up with. If I had not, I would have not slept until I figured it out LOL. Dead Money Owned by 2013 - $1,750,000 Dead money Owned by 2014 - $4,250,000 There is a 100,000 delta in the equation which I "assume" is a hit for his 100,000 ETBE Work out Bonus. (which apparently you only take a hit for in the cut year) TOTAL dead money right now is $6.1M The contrived formula the NFL uses is outlined below. What happens if a player is cut before his contract expires?* Let’s use John Doe as an example. Let’s say his team decides to cut him with two years remaining on his contract. Take the remaining prorated bonus ($2M per year times two, or $4M), and take his base salary, $1M. Subtract the remaining signing bonus from the base. The result is minus $3M, which means that John would cost his team $3M in dead money (money that essentially goes to waste and can’t be used on another contract.) This is why many teams wait to cut a player in the final year on their contract, as usually the base salary is significantly higher than the remaining prorated portion of the signing bonus NFL Salary Cap Primer \| Inside Football Attached Thumbnails
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau Last edited by TheOak; 04-01-2013 at 11:56 AM..

04-01-2013, 12:12 PM	#20
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 23,722	Re: Saints Cap Update 4/1/2013 (Not April Fools) So, we're broke?

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