New Orleans Saints select Texas safety Kenny Vaccaro with the 15th pick

04-26-2013, 07:13 AM

Originally Posted by papz

Since this obvious is a response to my post, I think it's stupid you think it's stupid. And what position is Jenkins playing now? They both have the flexibility to cover receivers and tight ends. I'm also not overly concerned about neither player's ability to get an INT. He's also been compared to All Pro Eric Weddle. Is that stupid too? Eric Weddle was a CB/FS hybrid when he was drafted. Since when was it so stupid to compare players who play the same position? Genius.

Read this smarty pants.

WEAKNESSES Used extensively in man coverage and around the line, must continue improving as a reliable back-half defender against the pass and last line of defense against long runs. One-speed player who lacks burst. Is not quite agile or fast enough to stick with better NFL receivers, backpedal is high and stiff, can be out-quicked in space, and loses a step running down the seam. Can get caught freelancing and watching the backfield in zone coverage, and will bite on play action. Knee injury ended his senior season in high school after three games. Can fill downhill out of control, losing his leverage on the ball carrier and missing tackles. Doesn’t always take good angles and is prone to running himself too far upfield when he’s the “force” defender.

Now if you take your defensive blinders off, think about it. Does this not sound similar to Jenkins? Hell they even tackle alike. Go look at his reel. Go get a hand rag and take your aggression out somewhere else.

And just in case you missed it, I'm more than okay with the Vaccaro pick and was so throughout the process. I did not compare him to Jenkins as an insult... as I think the world of Jenkins' ability. I think Vaccaro can be just as good as Jenkins when he flashed his potential a few years ago. Which means, I think Vaccaro can be an All Pro type safety. Hopefully he'll be more consistent than Jenkins and fulfill his potential.

The nerve.

Actually I never responded to you, smart guy. The Jenkins comment was towards KySaintsFan. Go back and check before you start making crazy ass, off the wall assumptions, cool?

There is a DIFFERENCE between an elite CB and an ELITE safety.
Jenkins might could have been an elite corner, we'll never know. He, however, is NOT an elite safety. He never or hardly ever played safety in college or high school, meaning he learned a completely different position.

Oh, and if you actually believe there's hardly a difference between CB and safety because they "both cover WR's and TE's", you know absolutely nothing about secondary and coverage schemes.
Would appreciate it if you only call me out like that when spoken to first though, buddy.

The nerve.

kelsobob · 04-26-2013, 07:23 AM

Originally Posted by papz

Since this obvious is a response to my post, I think it's stupid you think it's stupid. And what position is Jenkins playing now? They both have the flexibility to cover receivers and tight ends. I'm also not overly concerned about neither player's ability to get an INT. He's also been compared to All Pro Eric Weddle. Is that stupid too? Eric Weddle was a CB/FS hybrid when he was drafted. Since when was it so stupid to compare players who play the same position? Genius.

Read this smarty pants.

WEAKNESSES Used extensively in man coverage and around the line, must continue improving as a reliable back-half defender against the pass and last line of defense against long runs. One-speed player who lacks burst. Is not quite agile or fast enough to stick with better NFL receivers, backpedal is high and stiff, can be out-quicked in space, and loses a step running down the seam. Can get caught freelancing and watching the backfield in zone coverage, and will bite on play action. Knee injury ended his senior season in high school after three games. Can fill downhill out of control, losing his leverage on the ball carrier and missing tackles. Doesn’t always take good angles and is prone to running himself too far upfield when he’s the “force” defender.

Now if you take your defensive blinders off, think about it. Does this not sound similar to Jenkins? Hell they even tackle alike. Go look at his reel. Go get a hand rag and take your aggression out somewhere else.

And just in case you missed it, I'm more than okay with the Vaccaro pick and was so throughout the process. I did not compare him to Jenkins as an insult... as I think the world of Jenkins' ability. I think Vaccaro can be just as good as Jenkins when he flashed his potential a few years ago. Which means, I think Vaccaro can be an All Pro type safety. Hopefully he'll be more consistent than Jenkins and fulfill his potential.

The nerve.

Scouting Report

Athleticism
+Good size and bulk for the position.
+Shows good balance and change of direction skills.
+Above average quickness and acceleration.
+Fluid hips and has functional strength.
-Might be a high 4.5 speed guy.

Zone Coverage
+Fantastic instincts in zone, is always around the ball.
+Reads patterns well, plays very tight to receivers in his area
+Routinely gets a good break and closes quickly on the ball.
+Shows the ability to cover a deep half/third as well as play underneath.
-Doesn’t have great ball skills, has left a few interceptions on his plate.

Man Coverage
+Able to cover tight ends and slot receivers.
+Excels in press, able to get a solid jam and re-route receivers.
+Seems to understand leverage and will play his man into help.
-Lacks elite recovery speed on deep routes.
-Gets out of his backpedal too quickly at times, a bit impatient.

Run Support
+Solid form tackler, comfortable making a stop in space.
+Able to deliver a big hit, really lays the wood.
+Very effective blitzing off the edge, gets routine pressure.
+Will take on fullbacks, blow up blockers, all the dirty things to help his team.
+Very quick with his reads, gets to the hole quicker than blockers think he will.
-Goes for the kill-shot too often – has the fundamentals, needs to use them.
-Takes an occasional poor angle in pursuit.

Intelligence
+Shows a good understanding of the Texas “two-read” defense.
+Is asked to make adjustments based on the receivers route each play.
+Plays a variety of positions, including special teams.

Leadership
+Passionate player that has the respect of his teammates.
-Had an arrest (failure to obey) during the summer before his senior season.

Overview:
Vaccaro is exactly the kind of versatile defensive back that NFL teams are looking for. He can bully slot receivers with his strength and change of direction skills, while covering tight ends with his size and athletic ability, as well as covering a deep half or third in zone.

Vaccaro could play either free or strong safety at the next level, with the additional ability to contribute as a “star” or “money” defensive back in sub-packages. He also has excelled on special teams at Texas, which will endear him to NFL coaching staffs.

papz · 04-26-2013, 07:36 AM

Originally Posted by TreyThomas

Actually I never responded to you, smart guy. The Jenkins comment was towards KySaintsFan. Go back and check before you start making crazy ass, off the wall assumptions, cool?

Off wall assumptions? I also made the comparison and you did not quote who you were responding to. So how is it even close to being off the wall? You know what that means right. Regardless, it doesn't make a difference who you were responding too. The content remains the same. Maybe next time you want to go back and quote who you're responding to, cool?

There is a DIFFERENCE between an elite CB and an ELITE safety.
Jenkins might could have been an elite corner, we'll never know. He, however, is NOT an elite safety. He never or hardly ever played safety in college or high school, meaning he learned a completely different position.

Okay so what? I can't compare the two because one was moved to safety and one played safety in college? Makes perfect sense.

Oh, and if you actually believe there's hardly a difference between CB and safety because they "both cover WR's and TE's", you know absolutely nothing about secondary and coverage schemes.

I don't believe that. So you can throw that assumption out the window.

Would appreciate it if you only call me out like that when spoken to first though, buddy.

The nerve.

Would appreciate it if you be more specific. However it really made little difference as I thought your statement was ridiculous as is.

hagan714 · 04-26-2013, 07:45 AM

get his butt on the field already and lets see what we got.
come on pre season lol

neugey · 04-26-2013, 07:49 AM

Who Dat Hook Em Horns \m/ \m/. Welcome Kenny!

Danno · 04-26-2013, 07:51 AM

Originally Posted by Crusader

I think Harper will stay at SS, he is a good tackler and is improving in coverage every year, yeah he struggles against the big, fast freaks at TE, but so does everybody else. Jenkins is the guy I think wil be moved around. [/B]

Exactly, for a safety Harper has been very good against TE's. Papz posted the stats from 2 years ago (maybe 2010?) and Harper was graded 3rd best in the NFL at covering TE's. And that included all DB's, not just safeties.

I remember chat one game and a TE burned Vilma plain as day, and someone typed "Dammit Harper!!!". WTF?

And one game against Atlanta, Harper allowed 1 completion to Gonzalez for about a 4 yard gain, and a bogus PI, and all of his other 8 or 9 completions came against Greer, Robinson, Shanle, Vilma and Jenkins and after the game several were blaming Harper for it. It was amazing. Its like they watched an entirely different game. In fact, Harper took over covering Gonzo and he didn't get another completion for the rest of the 3rd and 4th quarter.

Yes, Harper struggles in deep coverage just as most SS's do, but inside 15 yards he plays very well.

burningmetal · 04-26-2013, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by TheOak

We will trade down they said.
Oak you dont understand the value in the trade down they said.
We want more draft picks they said.

I said after the first round you are drafting projects, not starters.
I said we would draft a shovel ready starter in the first round.

Really, Oak? I'm a little disappointed that you want to take credit for something of which you have no idea the end result. Have you seen how many prospects are still available, who some had going in the first? And until we see how these players' careers work out, how do you know who's going to do what? They're ALL projects, to some degree or another.

I'm glad we got Vaccaro. But for myself, and others who were interested in the idea of trading back, it was all based upon who would still be available. This is not the deepest draft, as far as for what you would consider I guess non "projects", so it begged the question if we wouldn't be better served to get more picks instead having just one total in the first two rounds, if we didn't have first round talent available.

In closing- not so fast, my friend.

papz · 04-26-2013, 08:25 AM

We need to remember what Ryan said earlier this off season. We are going to use Harper this year to his strengths. So I'm going to assume here that we're going to blitz and use him closer to the line this season. That makes picking Vaccaro to make even more sense. Being that we don't know what Jenkins we're going to see, having two guys that can supposedly cover and patrol center field much more important. This will allow Ryan to consistently pressure quarterbacks with 6 or 7 guys yet gives us that safety net down field behind them. We're going to see a lot of variations and Vaccaro gives us a lot of flexibility.

hagan714 · 04-26-2013, 08:43 AM

ok i did some home work

i trust my texas alumni family and friends that are die hards as all texans are.

It might not be his hands. they pointed more than once we will watch balls slip through his hands and drop to the turf. It is more a concentration issue, he seems more worried about what he is going to do after the int than making the int. his numbers should be a whole lot better.

yep been on the phone. other than that they like the pick for us. putting that texas loyalty aside. just give him a few years is the overall verdict and with coaching we could be very happy

iceshack149 · 04-26-2013, 08:59 AM

At first, I wasn't too overwhelmed by the pick of Vacarro but based on what players were available and the fact that he is the best at his position in this draft, I'll take it.
With such a terrible defense, I had hoped that the Saints could have grabbed a player closer to the line. Also, I wonder what the NFL teams know about Floyd that we don't?

Healthy throughout his college career and a solid player. Welcome aboard, Kenny!

04-26-2013, 07:13 AM	#91
Threaded by TreyThomas Registered Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 82 Rating: (0 votes - average) Originally Posted by papz Since this obvious is a response to my post, I think it's stupid you think it's stupid. And what position is Jenkins playing now? They both have the flexibility to cover receivers and tight ends. I'm also not overly concerned about neither player's ability to get an INT. He's also been compared to All Pro Eric Weddle. Is that stupid too? Eric Weddle was a CB/FS hybrid when he was drafted. Since when was it so stupid to compare players who play the same position? Genius. Read this smarty pants. WEAKNESSES Used extensively in man coverage and around the line, must continue improving as a reliable back-half defender against the pass and last line of defense against long runs. One-speed player who lacks burst. Is not quite agile or fast enough to stick with better NFL receivers, backpedal is high and stiff, can be out-quicked in space, and loses a step running down the seam. Can get caught freelancing and watching the backfield in zone coverage, and will bite on play action. Knee injury ended his senior season in high school after three games. Can fill downhill out of control, losing his leverage on the ball carrier and missing tackles. Doesn’t always take good angles and is prone to running himself too far upfield when he’s the “force” defender. Now if you take your defensive blinders off, think about it. Does this not sound similar to Jenkins? Hell they even tackle alike. Go look at his reel. Go get a hand rag and take your aggression out somewhere else. And just in case you missed it, I'm more than okay with the Vaccaro pick and was so throughout the process. I did not compare him to Jenkins as an insult... as I think the world of Jenkins' ability. I think Vaccaro can be just as good as Jenkins when he flashed his potential a few years ago. Which means, I think Vaccaro can be an All Pro type safety. Hopefully he'll be more consistent than Jenkins and fulfill his potential. The nerve. Actually I never responded to you, smart guy. The Jenkins comment was towards KySaintsFan. Go back and check before you start making crazy ass, off the wall assumptions, cool? There is a DIFFERENCE between an elite CB and an ELITE safety. Jenkins might could have been an elite corner, we'll never know. He, however, is NOT an elite safety. He never or hardly ever played safety in college or high school, meaning he learned a completely different position. Oh, and if you actually believe there's hardly a difference between CB and safety because they "both cover WR's and TE's", you know absolutely nothing about secondary and coverage schemes. Would appreciate it if you only call me out like that when spoken to first though, buddy. The nerve.
Views: 17796

04-26-2013, 07:23 AM	#92
kelsobob Rookie Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 10	Re: New Orleans Saints select Texas safety Kenny Vaccaro with the 15th pick Originally Posted by papz Since this obvious is a response to my post, I think it's stupid you think it's stupid. And what position is Jenkins playing now? They both have the flexibility to cover receivers and tight ends. I'm also not overly concerned about neither player's ability to get an INT. He's also been compared to All Pro Eric Weddle. Is that stupid too? Eric Weddle was a CB/FS hybrid when he was drafted. Since when was it so stupid to compare players who play the same position? Genius. Read this smarty pants. WEAKNESSES Used extensively in man coverage and around the line, must continue improving as a reliable back-half defender against the pass and last line of defense against long runs. One-speed player who lacks burst. Is not quite agile or fast enough to stick with better NFL receivers, backpedal is high and stiff, can be out-quicked in space, and loses a step running down the seam. Can get caught freelancing and watching the backfield in zone coverage, and will bite on play action. Knee injury ended his senior season in high school after three games. Can fill downhill out of control, losing his leverage on the ball carrier and missing tackles. Doesn’t always take good angles and is prone to running himself too far upfield when he’s the “force” defender. Now if you take your defensive blinders off, think about it. Does this not sound similar to Jenkins? Hell they even tackle alike. Go look at his reel. Go get a hand rag and take your aggression out somewhere else. And just in case you missed it, I'm more than okay with the Vaccaro pick and was so throughout the process. I did not compare him to Jenkins as an insult... as I think the world of Jenkins' ability. I think Vaccaro can be just as good as Jenkins when he flashed his potential a few years ago. Which means, I think Vaccaro can be an All Pro type safety. Hopefully he'll be more consistent than Jenkins and fulfill his potential. The nerve. Scouting Report Athleticism +Good size and bulk for the position. +Shows good balance and change of direction skills. +Above average quickness and acceleration. +Fluid hips and has functional strength. -Might be a high 4.5 speed guy. Zone Coverage +Fantastic instincts in zone, is always around the ball. +Reads patterns well, plays very tight to receivers in his area +Routinely gets a good break and closes quickly on the ball. +Shows the ability to cover a deep half/third as well as play underneath. -Doesn’t have great ball skills, has left a few interceptions on his plate. Man Coverage +Able to cover tight ends and slot receivers. +Excels in press, able to get a solid jam and re-route receivers. +Seems to understand leverage and will play his man into help. -Lacks elite recovery speed on deep routes. -Gets out of his backpedal too quickly at times, a bit impatient. Run Support +Solid form tackler, comfortable making a stop in space. +Able to deliver a big hit, really lays the wood. +Very effective blitzing off the edge, gets routine pressure. +Will take on fullbacks, blow up blockers, all the dirty things to help his team. +Very quick with his reads, gets to the hole quicker than blockers think he will. -Goes for the kill-shot too often – has the fundamentals, needs to use them. -Takes an occasional poor angle in pursuit. Intelligence +Shows a good understanding of the Texas “two-read” defense. +Is asked to make adjustments based on the receivers route each play. +Plays a variety of positions, including special teams. Leadership +Passionate player that has the respect of his teammates. -Had an arrest (failure to obey) during the summer before his senior season. Overview: Vaccaro is exactly the kind of versatile defensive back that NFL teams are looking for. He can bully slot receivers with his strength and change of direction skills, while covering tight ends with his size and athletic ability, as well as covering a deep half or third in zone. Vaccaro could play either free or strong safety at the next level, with the additional ability to contribute as a “star” or “money” defensive back in sub-packages. He also has excelled on special teams at Texas, which will endear him to NFL coaching staffs. Danno likes this.
kelsobob Rookie Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 10

04-26-2013, 07:36 AM	#93
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,682	Re: New Orleans Saints select Texas safety Kenny Vaccaro with the 15th pick Originally Posted by TreyThomas Actually I never responded to you, smart guy. The Jenkins comment was towards KySaintsFan. Go back and check before you start making crazy ass, off the wall assumptions, cool? Off wall assumptions? I also made the comparison and you did not quote who you were responding to. So how is it even close to being off the wall? You know what that means right. Regardless, it doesn't make a difference who you were responding too. The content remains the same. Maybe next time you want to go back and quote who you're responding to, cool? There is a DIFFERENCE between an elite CB and an ELITE safety. Jenkins might could have been an elite corner, we'll never know. He, however, is NOT an elite safety. He never or hardly ever played safety in college or high school, meaning he learned a completely different position. Okay so what? I can't compare the two because one was moved to safety and one played safety in college? Makes perfect sense. Oh, and if you actually believe there's hardly a difference between CB and safety because they "both cover WR's and TE's", you know absolutely nothing about secondary and coverage schemes. I don't believe that. So you can throw that assumption out the window. Would appreciate it if you only call me out like that when spoken to first though, buddy. The nerve. Would appreciate it if you be more specific. However it really made little difference as I thought your statement was ridiculous as is.
	Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege. All little common sense goes a long way.

04-26-2013, 07:45 AM	#94
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: New Orleans Saints select Texas safety Kenny Vaccaro with the 15th pick get his butt on the field already and lets see what we got. come on pre season lol

04-26-2013, 07:49 AM	#95
neugey Hu Dat! Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 6,592 Blog Entries: 13	Re: New Orleans Saints select Texas safety Kenny Vaccaro with the 15th pick Who Dat Hook Em Horns \m/ \m/. Welcome Kenny!

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04-26-2013, 07:51 AM	#96
Danno Site Donor 2014 Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,640	Re: New Orleans Saints select Texas safety Kenny Vaccaro with the 15th pick Originally Posted by Crusader I think Harper will stay at SS, he is a good tackler and is improving in coverage every year, yeah he struggles against the big, fast freaks at TE, but so does everybody else. Jenkins is the guy I think wil be moved around. [/B] Exactly, for a safety Harper has been very good against TE's. Papz posted the stats from 2 years ago (maybe 2010?) and Harper was graded 3rd best in the NFL at covering TE's. And that included all DB's, not just safeties. I remember chat one game and a TE burned Vilma plain as day, and someone typed "Dammit Harper!!!". WTF? And one game against Atlanta, Harper allowed 1 completion to Gonzalez for about a 4 yard gain, and a bogus PI, and all of his other 8 or 9 completions came against Greer, Robinson, Shanle, Vilma and Jenkins and after the game several were blaming Harper for it. It was amazing. Its like they watched an entirely different game. In fact, Harper took over covering Gonzo and he didn't get another completion for the rest of the 3rd and 4th quarter. Yes, Harper struggles in deep coverage just as most SS's do, but inside 15 yards he plays very well. SaintnDE likes this.

04-26-2013, 08:07 AM	#97
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,905 Blog Entries: 3	Re: New Orleans Saints select Texas safety Kenny Vaccaro with the 15th pick Originally Posted by TheOak We will trade down they said. Oak you dont understand the value in the trade down they said. We want more draft picks they said. I said after the first round you are drafting projects, not starters. I said we would draft a shovel ready starter in the first round. Really, Oak? I'm a little disappointed that you want to take credit for something of which you have no idea the end result. Have you seen how many prospects are still available, who some had going in the first? And until we see how these players' careers work out, how do you know who's going to do what? They're ALL projects, to some degree or another. I'm glad we got Vaccaro. But for myself, and others who were interested in the idea of trading back, it was all based upon who would still be available. This is not the deepest draft, as far as for what you would consider I guess non "projects", so it begged the question if we wouldn't be better served to get more picks instead having just one total in the first two rounds, if we didn't have first round talent available. In closing- not so fast, my friend. FinSaint likes this.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

04-26-2013, 08:25 AM	#98
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,682	Re: New Orleans Saints select Texas safety Kenny Vaccaro with the 15th pick We need to remember what Ryan said earlier this off season. We are going to use Harper this year to his strengths. So I'm going to assume here that we're going to blitz and use him closer to the line this season. That makes picking Vaccaro to make even more sense. Being that we don't know what Jenkins we're going to see, having two guys that can supposedly cover and patrol center field much more important. This will allow Ryan to consistently pressure quarterbacks with 6 or 7 guys yet gives us that safety net down field behind them. We're going to see a lot of variations and Vaccaro gives us a lot of flexibility. Danno and SmashMouth like this.
	Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege. All little common sense goes a long way.

04-26-2013, 08:43 AM	#99
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: New Orleans Saints select Texas safety Kenny Vaccaro with the 15th pick ok i did some home work i trust my texas alumni family and friends that are die hards as all texans are. It might not be his hands. they pointed more than once we will watch balls slip through his hands and drop to the turf. It is more a concentration issue, he seems more worried about what he is going to do after the int than making the int. his numbers should be a whole lot better. yep been on the phone. other than that they like the pick for us. putting that texas loyalty aside. just give him a few years is the overall verdict and with coaching we could be very happy
	"We may have lost the game, but you'll be hurting tomorrow." Doug Atkins

04-26-2013, 08:59 AM	#100
iceshack149 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fairbanks, AK Posts: 4,090 Blog Entries: 1	Re: New Orleans Saints select Texas safety Kenny Vaccaro with the 15th pick At first, I wasn't too overwhelmed by the pick of Vacarro but based on what players were available and the fact that he is the best at his position in this draft, I'll take it. With such a terrible defense, I had hoped that the Saints could have grabbed a player closer to the line. Also, I wonder what the NFL teams know about Floyd that we don't? Healthy throughout his college career and a solid player. Welcome aboard, Kenny!

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