Running Backs requiring rhythm (Ingram)
 

I see a lot of people commenting that Ingram requires more carry's to get into a rhythm... I am not buying into the logic so I decided to scour the web to see what I could find to justify or negate that claim.

What I have found is that that is a RB claim but no one can substantiate it. That logic also leads me to believe that RBs that require rhythm should not get much over 2 YPC in the first Qtr... Also even 20 carries per game is not in a row and rhythm is not created when there are gaps between runs.

It also seems that the required carries for rhythm is being misinterpreted. It is consecutive carries and not total carries in a game.

Read this article:
"The answer? Nope. With each consecutive carry a running back gets, his DVOA tends to drop. It drops so quickly and spectacularly, in fact, that by the time the fourth carry in a row rolls around, you might as well hand the ball to a rusted out refrigerator. Or Rudi Johnson."

Getting into a rhythm? Does it happen for running backs? - Shutdown Corner - NFL*Blog - Yahoo! Sports

Read this article:
"That mitigates the findings of this sort of research to an extent, but doesn't disqualify it. Running the ball with one player repeatedly to get him and your offense into a "rhythm" is only likely to put them on the sidelines."
FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Can Running Backs Get Into A Rhythm?


An Offense requires a rhythm, a QB requires a rhythm (he touches the ball every play).

Running Backs including Ingram do not require rhythm.

As I searched the only people that said running backs need rhythm are Running Backs that want more carries or fans if Reggie Bush lol.

When you constantly hand the ball to one RB repeatedly doesn't that sort of negate trying to disguise the plays so a defense doesn't know what is coming?

I have seen 15+ carries a game to get the required rhythm... ONLY the top 7-9 RB's in the game get over 17+ carries per game. and that's because they are proven RBs that earned that right.
2012 NFL Player Rushing Stats - National Football League - ESPN
2011 NFL Player Rushing Stats - National Football League - ESPN

Deuce only has over 250 carries per game in 3 of his 8 years.
Deuce McAllister NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

Pierre has never had over 150
Pierre Thomas NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

Even in Reggies case His highest Yard/carry wasn't his highest in the season he had the most carries.
Reggie Bush NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-cFl4G-aVv5...MythBusted.gif

Re: Running Backs requiring rhythm (Ingram)
 

Never bought that rhythm crap either.

I think that myth has more to do with the fact that running it beats up a defense, so continuing to pound away at them provides more opportunities for RB's to break tackles and bust open a big run.

The only thing RB's require is that their O-line open some holes, and not get pummelled by 4 defenders immediately after receiving the handoff.

Re: Running Backs requiring rhythm (Ingram)
 

I do not buy into the "rhythm" idea either, but I do believe that with more carries comes more opportunity. In my opinion, there are RBs that have a "battering" style of running that is more conducive to wearing a defense down thus allowing for a higher probability of weak tackling and a slower step from the opposing defense later in the game. I think that it is harder to see this in "today's game" as it has shifted to being more friendly to shiftier and lighter backs with hands. While I haven't looked up the list of 8-9 backs that get 15+ carries a game, after thinking about it and having a pretty decent idea of who they are, I would think that most of them are RBs that have gotten that many touches throughout most their career, and one could argue that potentially some of said RBs would not be as successful without those large amounts of carries. While I'm not a proponent of just handing a guy the ball over and over again until he falls over, I do feel like if a team decides to trade up (especially back into the first round) to draft a RB then that is a commitment to give said RB the ball a substantial amount of times. Whether it be because of injury or a crowded backfield, that has yet to happen for Ingram, and, while I love PT, Sproles, & even Cadet, I feel like a big commitment to Ingram was purported that has yet to come to fruition. I wouldn't mind seeing him get more carries this year (pending a clean bill of health) just as sort of a final test for "boom or bust". As a Saints fan, I'm hoping for boom. PT isn't getting any younger, and I hate to see us have to blow another pick at that position or hope for another late round "diamond in the rough". Props to Oak for always backing up a point of view with researched info. I'm always happy to read an Oak authored post or comment. :-)

Re: Running Backs requiring rhythm (Ingram)
 

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instanc...x/37835134.jpg

This is rhythm here...

Re: Running Backs requiring rhythm (Ingram)
 

Week 7 I believe it was - Kromer was back as the O line coach and we were playing the eagles

Thats when our Running game started getting consistent again, however one thing I will stick to saying is that we were way too predictable and we should get Ingram involved in the passing game because he has good hands and it will mix it up a little

3rd and 2 last year vs niners - Before the snap I called it "Superbowl 2 point conversion pass to lance moore" is the play coming - sure enough it was and if I knew it was coming you got to believe the defense did aswell

Our RB's need to get mixed up play calls wise and the O line need to improve at run blocking, I believe SP will get it down though

Re: Running Backs requiring rhythm (Ingram)
 

Bingo... Its how we use them, not how often we use any one in particular.

Re: Running Backs requiring rhythm (Ingram)
 

The rhythm method worked in high school. Now not so much.

Re: Running Backs requiring rhythm (Ingram)
 

Rhythm is a bad choice of words but from being a RB myself things change and develop during a game. You can also wear down the D as well. SO there is some truth to this theory just bad choice of words.

Ingram on the other hand isn't the RB I think we hoped for... maybe more of a FB type back but not the RB. He had flashes when Ivory was cutting into his carries and it looked like both of them were competitive with each other to get the carries... as soon as Ivory was hurt you might as well have benched Ingram as well.

Re: Running Backs requiring rhythm (Ingram)
 

Huh? What are you talking about?

Re: Running Backs requiring rhythm (Ingram)
 

He is saying Ingram lacks motivation.... Until his job is threatened.

Re: Running Backs requiring rhythm (Ingram)
 

Dumbest thing I've heard in days.

Re: Running Backs requiring rhythm (Ingram)
 

Just an observation...

Only time I saw him run worth a damn is when Ivory was splitting carries with him.

Re: Running Backs requiring rhythm (Ingram)
 

I agree with the "beat up" or "pounding" philosophy and not so much with the mystical "rhythm" myth.

One part of it is, there is a substantial physical and psychological difference between, constantly knowing what is going to happen next (offensive player) and constantly NOT knowing what is going to happen next (defensive player) and reacting to it. Over time, that wears on you. The psychological impact of a Steven Jackson or Frank Gore type dude, ripping through a defense, again and again, is very demoralizing to the defense and their coaches. In fact, the psychological part is almost as important as the physical in wearing out a defense. It's more than just tiring defensive people out or gassing them, it's a defensive player knowing you're failing and that you have to line up and do it all over, again and again. "All day."

If I were to think of a running back getting into a "rhythm" that's kind of what I would mean, that it's automatic or repetitive, or the other team just can't seem to stop it.

Re: Running Backs requiring rhythm (Ingram)
 

Nailed It! :p

Re: Running Backs requiring rhythm (Ingram)
 

Outstanding entry!

I haven't had a chance to read all the fine articles you added here (though I commend you for digging them up). The idea of a need for a "game rhythm" is nonsense, I take it.

Is there anything to this idea: teams that have bruiser backs create a kind of "intimidation" over the course of a game? (Likely, as has been pointed out, this depends on more than just the RB, but it is certainly more likely to be a feature of a guy like Ingram than one like Sproles.)

If yes, then the rhythm theory is really just a poor way of talking about a kind of physical intimidation.

(For the record, I'm disinclined to the intimidation theory (and that name for it), but it seems like a possible avenue for understanding the idea the rhythm people are expressing.)

[I see now that SaintsBro above is offering a similar suggestion.]

Re: Running Backs requiring rhythm (Ingram)
 

The theory is as I understand it is that the rhythm is gained by repetitive carries, a momentum for lack of a better term is built. "If" a player has that requirement then the first problem I see is that he is fairly useless in the 1st Qtr.

PT needs nothing but a little blocking and a screen play to effect a game.


It's all productivity.... YPC. A 100 yard game means nothing if the RB needs 40 carries to get there.