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WhoDat!656 08-10-2013 08:21 AM

Cutting Will Smith
 
I didn't get to watch the game, but from the comments I have read, Will Smith isn't going to make it at OLB.

Maybe he could play DE?

Would it be better for the Saints to bite the bullet and cut him? I don't remember how much his re-negotiated salary is.

Danno 08-10-2013 08:29 AM

Re: Cutting Will Smith
 
I'll pitch in.

Right now, if we only keep 4 OLB's, Will Smith is the odd man out, if the Chiefs game is any indicator of the new slimmed down version of Will Smith.

lee909 08-10-2013 08:31 AM

Re: Cutting Will Smith
 
From what i can see his cap hit is 8,502,451 and we would be hit for 7,855,902 in dead money.Not sure if this is the new deal or not.There is a one year club option next season according to the site

*edit*Looks like the pay cut was included
2013 Restructure: $6M paycut

Will Smith Contracts, Salaries, Cap Hits, & Transactions


Dont think he will be cut.He helped the team taking the paycut and this could just be a payoff while making use of him.You cant change everyone in a year

Danno 08-10-2013 08:36 AM

Re: Cutting Will Smith
 
I guess he would make a decent back-up since we're likely forced to keep him. Maybe in certain packages like maybe an extra DE on certain downs.

lee909 08-10-2013 08:39 AM

Re: Cutting Will Smith
 
He dropped from roughly 280lb to 260lb.He would be better putting it back on,especially with the loss of Coleman and backing up at DE.
Having said that to be fair to him he wont have played OLB for a long time and didnt have much time.If he still looks bad in the third game ill be more worried.

Trying to see what the dead money is on next year as it was reported he signed a two year deal and next years money is bad.

WhoDat!656 08-10-2013 08:42 AM

Re: Cutting Will Smith
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lee909 (Post 516250)
He dropped from roughly 280lb to 260lb.He would be better putting it back on,especially with the loss of Coleman and backing up at DE.
Having said that to be fair to him he wont have played OLB for a long time and didnt have much time.If he still looks bad in the third game ill be more worried.

Trying to see what the dead money is on next year as it was reported he signed a two year deal and next years money is bad.

In all fairness to the Fresh Prince, it is a new position and the first pre-season game.

lee909 08-10-2013 08:42 AM

Re: Cutting Will Smith
 
Last bit on the contract

The Saints did finally push for a paycut in 2013, but by that time the damage was done. Even in reducing his pay from $9 to $3 million Smith still has a cap charge of $8 million this season putting him around the top 15 at the position. When they do release him next season he will still carry over $2 million in cap penalties due to that 2012 restructure.

westbankdaze 08-10-2013 08:48 AM

Re: Cutting Will Smith
 
There is no way Smith is going to play LB this season. He will be a backup DE.

The LB corps is worrisome. We didn't get to see some of the guys but I am not sure we are going to see alot of improvement from Tez and galette. Neither are good in coverage so I don't see how we will get that improvement in the flats. I don't think the outcome would have been any different than what we saw last night based on all those screen passes they were throwing.

dizzle88 08-10-2013 08:51 AM

Re: Cutting Will Smith
 
Rememer when we all said theres no way Shanle gets on the field this season?

All you heard from the coaching staff is how good of a player he was - every week

I hope its not the case with will smith, bring him in as an extra lineman sure, but I'd rather have jason david play OLB than will smith

westbankdaze 08-10-2013 08:53 AM

Re: Cutting Will Smith
 
Shanle looked better as a LB than what we showed last night when the ones were on the field.

B_Dub_Saint 08-10-2013 08:57 AM

Re: Cutting Will Smith
 
Its kinda forcing him out. Everyone knows he's to slow for Olb.

halloween 65 08-10-2013 09:52 AM

Re: Cutting Will Smith
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by B_Dub_Saint (Post 516261)
Its kinda forcing him out. Everyone knows he's to slow for Olb.

And this is why I would put him on the inside, he could be very effective shedding blocks and tough against the run.

Beastmode 08-10-2013 10:33 AM

Re: Cutting Will Smith
 
The problem isn't Will, he's getting old. The problem is whoever wrote that contract. He's going to get paid either way and it goes against the cap. Makes no difference.

I say release him. At least he's not taking up a roster spot and we can get something out of the bargain bin in a couple of weeks. I would even say there are better options at backup DE which is really the only role he's suited for at this point. I thought he would be ok but unless he turns the corner hard by next game I agree, he's not playing that position.

saintsfan1976 08-10-2013 11:07 AM

Re: Cutting Will Smith
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Danno (Post 516248)
I guess he would make a decent back-up since we're likely forced to keep him. Maybe in certain packages like maybe an extra DE on certain downs.

This.

We lost the two players Ryan counted on to bring stability to his 3-4.

Will is still a valuable piece in the right scheme.

Does anyone here really think he'll be covering RBs this year??

|Mitch| 08-10-2013 11:09 AM

Re: Cutting Will Smith
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 (Post 516282)
Does anyone here really think he'll be covering RBs this year??

No; Galette and Wilson are the starters...

FinSaint 08-10-2013 04:11 PM

Re: Cutting Will Smith
 
I was a bit surprised at how slow and out of place Smith looked in the 1st preseason game - maybe I let the optimist in me talk me into believing that somehow this positional change would work out... IDK.

Anyway, I was very disappointed with how he behaved on the field and it didn't look any better during the second watch, so maybe he could move back into a "hand on the turf" position or maybe he'll improve... but at the moment I just can't see a way he could be a starter in any of the positions available to him in this defense.

CharityMike 08-10-2013 05:16 PM

Re: Cutting Will Smith
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lee909 (Post 516250)
He dropped from roughly 280lb to 260lb.

Either 20lbs is not easy to see or he has a tighter uniform. He looked fat and slow!

Beastmode 08-10-2013 05:20 PM

Re: Cutting Will Smith
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CharityMike (Post 516362)
Either 20lbs is not easy to see or he has a tighter uniform. He looked fat and slow!

He would have to get below his draft weight and that is not going to happen.

LBCutta 08-10-2013 05:41 PM

Re: Cutting Will Smith
 
Cut him. He looked terrible and slow. He'll be a liability

TheOak 08-10-2013 05:54 PM

Re: Cutting Will Smith
 
1 Attachment(s)
Attachment 7604

jeanpierre 08-10-2013 07:10 PM

Re: Cutting Will Smith
 
****TRADE****

There are plenty of teams who are going to need a Defensive End; and the fact he's in Sean Payton shape, teams will need a ProBowl 43 Defensive End...

We need 34 Outside LBers and we need Offensive Tackles, and we could always add quality depth for a Championship Run...

homerj07 08-10-2013 07:32 PM

Re: Cutting Will Smith
 
1st game just like with Stills I will wait & reserve judgement after a couple of more games.

SaintsBro 08-10-2013 09:10 PM

Re: Cutting Will Smith
 
I'm with Jeanpierre, I absolutely believe the man is trade bait. I believe this whole weird linebacking experiment is just a temporary placeholder...I think they are being patient with him until the right situation comes along to unload him.... Something will pop when we least expect it, and someone will want him. Some other team will discover they have a glaring need during preseason, word will get around that he's a Pro Bowl player caught in a situation where he's "not a good fit in the new scheme," and the phone will ring. By forcing Smith into a concocted bad situation, it gives him an "out," it makes it look to other GM's like he's on the block because of the scheme and coaching change, instead of him being on the block because he is old and/or consistently underperforms.

Danno 08-10-2013 09:47 PM

Re: Cutting Will Smith
 
Pro bowl defensive end?
Seriously?
Are y'all on drugs?

ClintSaints 08-10-2013 10:00 PM

Re: Cutting Will Smith
 
If we were going to cut Will Smith all along it would have been nice to do this a long time ago so we could have gone after some of the better OLB's in free agency.

My prediction is that he will stay.

Cruize 08-10-2013 10:54 PM

Re: Cutting Will Smith
 
He was an above average to good player at DE in his prime. He is a serviceable DE right now. He is not in any way shape or form an OLB nor will he ever be. Every OLB on the roster has more talent at OLB than he does. And that group is a long way away from having any Pro Bowlers. His salary and veteran status is the only reason he's being given a shot at a roster spot for the 2013 Saints.

|Mitch| 08-10-2013 11:11 PM

Re: Cutting Will Smith
 
With his size, he may be serviceable when not having to drop back in coverage. When his only duty is to stop the run and rush the passer. He has the size to blow up any TE's or RB's trying to block him.

But not as a full time starter...

None of our LB's looked particularly good in the passing game in that first game. Smith dinked and dunked all the way for a TD that first drive.

RaginCajun83 08-10-2013 11:18 PM

Re: Cutting Will Smith
 
I'm getting sick and tired of seeing him on the field. He should of been cut after he couldn't keep outside contain on Alex Smith, not Micheal Vick or RG III, freaking Alex Smith in 2011.

He's been holding Gallette back for what 3 years now. Time for the coaching staff to admit their mistake and cut this dead weight before his below average ability costs them a game or 2 this season. Why does this feel like 2007-2009 with Jason David all over again?

QBREES9 08-11-2013 12:02 AM

Re: Cutting Will Smith
 
Will Smith, He's not and OLB.

FinSaint 08-11-2013 02:48 AM

Re: Cutting Will Smith
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RaginCajun83 (Post 516426)
I'm getting sick and tired of seeing him on the field. He should of been cut after he couldn't keep outside contain on Alex Smith, not Micheal Vick or RG III, freaking Alex Smith in 2011.

He's been holding Gallette back for what 3 years now. Time for the coaching staff to admit their mistake and cut this dead weight before his below average ability costs them a game or 2 this season. Why does this feel like 2007-2009 with Jason David all over again?


I do agree with the spirit of your comment, but...


Smith hasn't been holding back Galette - it was the mismanagement of Galette by GW that slowed down his development towards being a NFL caliber player, a development which was slow to begin with.

Smith has been a very valuable player for the Saints and arguably one of the better 1st round picks that they've made this decade, and no other Saints' player has had as many sacks as he has during that time.

The problem isn't really Smith, but agents and the front office, and to be more specific Charles Grant's agent and the Saints FO. Once Grant was given his huge contract, which was a colossal mistake - the cards were on the table and Smith had to be given at least an equal contract monetary wise. That shortsightedness by the FO cost the Saints in the short-term with Grant's disappearing act and with Smith's longterm pricey contract, which they are still in a way paying with the re-structures and re-negotiations. So, while Smith has been a franchise DE for the Saints this past decade - especially in 2006 and 2009 - he has been and is overpaid for his services.

And I won't even talk about the comparison to Jason David. :-)

lee909 08-11-2013 04:32 AM

Re: Cutting Will Smith
 
No way is he getting cut as next to nothing would be saved in cap space.
Out of interest,say we could trade him.Would the other team have to pay his full contract or just his base salary?
His base salary is 3ml the rest is in signing various other bonuses.

jeanpierre 08-11-2013 07:17 AM

Re: Cutting Will Smith
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Danno (Post 516415)
Pro bowl defensive end?
Seriously?
Are y'all on drugs?

It's on his resume - polish that thing and get all you can...

thebdj 08-11-2013 10:02 AM

Re: Cutting Will Smith
 
Well he's not getting cut. Simply put he's a voice and a backup at worst be it across the front of the D-Line or in the OLB position. Given his cap hit, he is just too expensive to let go.

I highly doubt he is getting traded. This is a great option for us but not so good for many other teams. He doesn't really provide starting DE confidence in a 4-3 scheme to many teams does he? Having said that, another team prepared to pay up would probably get away with a conditional 27th Round Draft Pick in the 2048 draft!!!

So in my opinion, work on the basis he is staying. Keep getting him to work hard and do as much as he can in the scheme that we have as a backup. End.

Danno 08-11-2013 10:32 AM

Re: Cutting Will Smith
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 516448)
It's on his resume - polish that thing and get all you can...

It'll take a freaking boatload of polish to remove all the tarnish on that 7 year old award.

halloween 65 08-11-2013 10:36 AM

Re: Cutting Will Smith
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Danno (Post 516475)
It'll take a freaking boatload of polish to remove all the tarnish on that 7 year old award.

That was truly funny, made me laugh!!

jeanpierre 08-11-2013 11:58 AM

Re: Cutting Will Smith
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Danno (Post 516475)
It'll take a freaking boatload of polish to remove all the tarnish on that 7 year old award.

Hey, look-e-here, I've been among his harshest of critics, but it's a selling point none the less and we need depth at LB and OT; and that cap space would geaux a long way resigning Graham...

Possible Trade Partners/Candidates:

St. Louis Rams OT Roger Saffold

Tennessee Titans OLB/DE Kamerion Wimbley

Miami Dolphins DE/DT Jared Odrick

Carolina Panthers LB Chase Blackburn

Seattle Seahawks C Lemuel Jeanpierre ;)

Seattle Seahawks OLB Ty Powell

TheOak 08-11-2013 11:59 AM

Re: Cutting Will Smith
 
You guys do understand that trading a player is something that requires a willing second party? "Willing" being the point of emphasis? Normally a trade also requires having something to offer with MORE value than liability.


Will Smith cap hits 2013/2014
2013 $8.5M. 10th highest for DE
2014 $13.9M. 6th highest for DE

Will Smith is not a top 30 DE much less 10 or 6.

When you say Pro Bowl Veteran....... You do realize that other teams have sen him play right? A good many of them target him....



No need to start guessing at whether those numbers are with his restructure. Will Smith did not restructure in 2013, he just accepted a payout, those cap hits are current and accurate.


What are you guys smoking? Will Smith has no trade value, only trade debt.

lee909 08-11-2013 12:01 PM

Re: Cutting Will Smith
 
Isnt that 2014 year a club option or did that get added with the restructure?

Danno 08-11-2013 12:03 PM

Re: Cutting Will Smith
 
We have 2 options.

1. Cut him and take a huge cap hit
2. Keep him and play him in situations that play to his strengths.

The only justification for cutting him is if we have 4 players better than him on the roster right now. Judging from game 1 that may very well be true. Cutting him saves no money this year, it simply opens up a roster spot.

TheOak 08-11-2013 12:11 PM

Re: Cutting Will Smith
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lee909 (Post 516489)
Isnt that 2014 year a club option or did that get added with the restructure?

Club option.... Which means this is his last year with the Saints, but we are stuck with him. There is nothing to trade, next year he will either be a FA or we will pay through the nose to keep him.


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