Pierre Thomas is underused
 

This guy does nothing but make good plays out of bad situations. He can run the ball between the tackles as well as anybody, he never goes down easy, he can block, he's great at screens, the guy can do it all.

I want to see Ingram succeed just as much as anybody else here, but how long do you continue to pound him into the line for 2-yard gainers when you've got a Pierre Thomas sitting around getting 7 or 8 carries a game?

I am not trying to be a complainer, but it's pretty obvious who the best running back on the team is. I wanna see what PT can do with a workload like he had in 2009.

Re: Pierre Thomas is underused
 

PT 9 rush 43 yds

MI 9 rush 11 yds

Re: Pierre Thomas is underused
 

This running by committee has always been the case. I am as much of a fan of the run PT until he cant breath strategy as you are but he had the same amount of work, got the same amount of carries, yards, as now...... The real problems with running the rock are as follows....

- You gotta want to do it..... You can tell when the Saints have commited to the run because they run the running plays back, to back, to back.... I only saw a back to back running play one time today

- Mark Ingram is not as good as Mike Bell was at ( taking the lowest amount of spell carries and getting the MAX out of them. Big runs, breakaway runs, etc)

- There aren't enough carries for him to get his traditional 2 yrds per carry the entire game....

Re: Pierre Thomas is underused
 

I was surprised at how many times they ran Sprolles.

Re: Pierre Thomas is underused
 

i would be happy with a PT/Khiry tandem IMHO

Re: Pierre Thomas is underused
 

Same here. I know you gotta keep the opposition honest, but I thought they were gonna get him killed there a few times...

Re: Pierre Thomas is underused
 

I was extremely depressed by seeing Mark Ingram get the call on 4th down and inches and NOT get it, after him watching him also NOT getting it in the Packers game his rookie year, and remembering Pierre getting it on 4th and 1 on a much bigger stage in overtime in the NFC Championship game, by making a second effort and a dive full of heart.

Re: Pierre Thomas is underused
 

Give PT the ball.

(I am not trying to be a complainer, but it's pretty obvious who the best running back on the team is. I wanna see what PT can do with a workload like he had in 2009.

Re: Pierre Thomas is underused
 

I don't blame MI for his performance. PT's run formations were disguised and my cat could tell when and where run plays for MI.

I agree that PT needs to be used more. But not because MI is ineffective.

Re: Pierre Thomas is underused
 

PT is the best back we have end of story.

now if your a team that knows it will be in the playoffs it is smart to try to save him from injury so he is fresh in the playoff push. if the committee move aint killing you stick with it.

then there is the other side of the coin. Stuff Ingram down our throats every week because he was a high priced first round pick and by golly they are going to prove they did not screw the pooch when they made the trade to get him.

either way when playoff time comes i want PT healthy and as fresh as possible.

Re: Pierre Thomas is underused
 

So explain to me why it's Ingrams fault when as soon as the ball is in his hands, 2+ defenders are in his face and thats not the case for PT. I know the answer, do you?

Re: Pierre Thomas is underused
 

It doesn't matter why, and it doesn't matter whose fault it is. PT produces, Ingram does not produce. Therefore, the team would be best served by giving PT more playing time. That's just how I see it.

Re: Pierre Thomas is underused
 

Pierre is injury prone. We can't treat him like a workhorse.

Re: Pierre Thomas is underused
 

A) he's not that injury prone. Other than 2010 he's played seasons of 15, 14, 16 and 15 games. Not counting his rookie year when he wasn't on the roster until midway through the season.

B) nobody is suggesting he carry the ball 300 times. But give him 200 carries and he's a 1000 yard back. That's not much more than he got the ball in 2009 and he was still in fantastic shape for the playoffs and in fact was one of the team's best players throughout the postseason.

Re: Pierre Thomas is underused
 

Those stats don't say how many games he started and didn't finish.

Re: Pierre Thomas is underused
 

Well then you can't see the forest through the trees.

Re: Pierre Thomas is underused
 

The expression is "You can't see the forest FOR the trees", and it means that one struggles to see the big picture because he is too busy looking at small individual things. Which, in fact, is exactly what YOU are doing, and also is the exact OPPOSITE of what I am doing. I want the team's running game as a whole to be better; meanwhile you want them to change everything to cater to one guy who otherwise does not seem to fit in very well.

Besides that, you've yet to offer an explanation why they should keep using Ingram despite his obvious lack of productivity in this offense.

Don't get me wrong. I am not an Ingram hater. I have been behind him from day one. But there comes a time when you have to admit that maybe it's not going to work out for him with the Saints. There's no shame in that for either side. You just get what you can and move on, and find another person who can have success within the context of the offense rather than continuing to cram square pegs into round holes.

Re: Pierre Thomas is underused
 

OK, enlighten me then. how many? I certainly don't recall him leaving many games.

Re: Pierre Thomas is underused
 

The offense is less predictable with PT on the field. What happened in the preseason when they actually checked down to Ingram? He nearly took it to the house. All of the backs deserve to get their touches. PT has the best feel for the game and the O-Line. Sproles is great out of the backfield and is a matchup nightmare. Ingram is just trying too hard in his limited plays. He's not a role player. Thomas and Sproles are. The offense, which includes the WR's as well, is schemed to use alot of players. Ingram would be better off elsewhere and the Saints wouldn't be worse off without him. It is what it is.

Re: Pierre Thomas is underused
 

Payton swore that after PT got knocked out that we would always have plenty of running backs...........and we do.
I have come to believe that MI just doesn't fit the system.
We do need to remember that PT has had injuries that have nagged him in the past and he's not getting any younger. Trade Ingram and bring in Robinson.

Re: Pierre Thomas is underused
 

I agree that MI's opportunities seemed to fall apart as soon as he got the ball and that could be scheme or o-line issues, but I also feel like PT runs with a lower center of gravity. MI always seems to be running "tall", if you know what I mean, and he's easily knocked down. PT, Cadet, Robinson all seem to have better balance.

That's why I wanted to trade MI to Detroit last October when they were so desperate for a RB.

Re: Pierre Thomas is underused
 

There must be something we are missing.

I honestly have no idea what BUT - we've got to be missen som-em!

Re: Pierre Thomas is underused
 

http://vir4l.com/wp-content/uploads/...t_hits_dog.jpg

Re: Pierre Thomas is underused
 

Get outta my face.

Re: Pierre Thomas is underused
 

PT does not have the endurance to geaux more than 10-12 touches per game over an entire season...we know this from watching his career with the Saints...

If you've played football you know that you can win the ball with 2yd pounding runs because (a) you make the opposition respect the run, (b) you give your offensive line a chance to fire off against the defense, wearing them down (c) your not showing all your passing plays before the end of the first half...

Now, from what we saw of Ingram yesterday; he's struggling to develop chemistry and timing with the Saints blocking schemes and that is a SHARED responsibility of Ingram (65%) and Coaching (35%)...

As a professional, it is his responsibility to put in more film time and work at practice to recognize his mistakes and take corrective action; the coaches wanted this guy enough to move back into the first round and grab him and they need to do their part...

Re: Pierre Thomas is underused
 

Maybe we can trade him for steven jackson

Re: Pierre Thomas is underused
 

We know nothing of the sort. In 2009 he had the most carries of his career, rushed for nearly 800 yards at 5.4 ypc (!), never got hurt after coming back from the first 2 games and still had enough gas to be one of our best players in the playoffs. In 2008 he had the most touches of his career adding up rushes, receptions and kick returns and played in 15 games only missing the season finale.

In fact there is nothing at all to suggest PT is any more injury-prone than any other running back in the NFL. Other than the one year when he had a catastrophic injury he's never played in less than 14 games. Even Emmitt Smith had multiple seasons where he missed 2 or 3 games.

There is no reason to think PT could not handle around 200 combined touches a season when he's done it before and in fact those seasons just happen to be the most productive of his career.

Give PT and Sproles about 12 carries each and however many receptions, that's 24 carries a game. Give the remaining 5 or 6 carries to Ingram. You have to put your most productive players on the field.

Re: Pierre Thomas is underused
 

at wearing the wrong cleats

Re: Pierre Thomas is underused
 

*Prediction*
Sean Payton follows B&G recommendations and gives PT more carries.

PT gets injured.

B&G has a new thread saying getting PT hurt was stupid when we have 4 RBs.


Yodagi says all things need balance
http://cdn.motinetwork.net/demotivat...1307031814.jpg

Re: Pierre Thomas is underused
 

win and have pT fresh at playoff time i cool in my book.

Re: Pierre Thomas is underused
 

Is Ingram still playing on his rookie contract? If so could it be that the coaching staff is just trying to get their money's worth with no real intention of keeping him around once the contract expires?

I'm also in the camp that says Ingram can't hold Pierre's jock, and Pierre should be getting the lion's share of the carries. But if Ingram is playing-out a contract that won't be renewed, we may as well use him as the battering ram and keep Pierre fresh.

In other words, play Pierre as much as is required to win the game. If he can't find running lanes, then Ingram surely won't.

Re: Pierre Thomas is underused
 

yes.
Mark Ingram Contracts, Salaries, Cap Hits, & Transactions

And has one more year... sigh