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Saints Red Zone Trips, Broken Down

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; "Broken down" literally as well as, discussed. I had some down time, so I compiled a list of Saints red zone drives from the box scores of the two games. I included some drives from inside the 30 because they ...

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Old 09-18-2013, 10:09 AM   #1
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Saints Red Zone Trips, Broken Down

"Broken down" literally as well as, discussed.

I had some down time, so I compiled a list of Saints red zone drives from the box scores of the two games. I included some drives from inside the 30 because they were close, or they seemed like important drives.

I was going to ask what people in the forum thought the problems were, but it became so glaringly obvious as I read them, that I just went ahead and highlighted them all in red. But this REALLY shows you what is going on, when you see them all together like this.

TAMPA BAY GAME

1st and 10 at TB 19 D.Brees pass incomplete short left to M.Colston (D.Goldson).
2nd and 10 at TB 19 (Shotgun) D.Brees sacked at TB 26 for -7 yards (G.McCoy).
3rd and 17 at TB 26 (Shotgun) D.Brees pass incomplete short left to D.Sproles.
4th and 17 at TB 26 (Field Goal formation) G.Hartley 44 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-J.Drescher, Holder-L.McCown.

---------------------------------------------------------

1st and 10 at TB 27 PENALTY on NO-M.Ingram, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at TB 27 - No Play.
1st and 15 at TB 32 M.Ingram left end pushed ob at TB 31 for 1 yard (M.Foster).

2nd and 14 at TB 31 (Shotgun) D.Brees pass short left to D.Sproles to TB 25 for 6 yards (D.Revis).
3rd and 8 at TB 25 (Shotgun) D.Brees pass incomplete deep left to L.Moore.
4th and 8 at TB 25 (Field Goal formation) G.Hartley 43 yard field goal is No Good, Wide Right

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1st and 10 at TB 34 (Shotgun) D.Brees pass short left to D.Sproles to TB 30 for 4 yards (D.Goldson).
2nd and 6 at TB 30 D.Brees pass deep middle to J.Graham for 30 yards, TOUCHDOWN. The Replay Assistant challenged the runner broke the plane ruling, and the play was REVERSED. D.Brees pass deep middle to J.Graham to TB 1 for 29 yards (D.Goldson).

1st and 1 at TB 1 D.Brees pass incomplete short middle. Who was Drew throwing to here? What happened? I forget.]

2nd and 1 at TB 1 M.Ingram left end to TB 2 for -1 yards (D.Goldson, M.Foster).

3rd and 2 at TB 2 P.Thomas left tackle to TB 2 for no gain (D.Revis, A.Black).

4th and 2 at TB 2 (Field Goal formation) G.Hartley 20 yard field goal is GOOD, NULLIFIED by Penalty, Center-J.Drescher, Holder-L.McCown. PENALTY on TB-L.Johnson, Defensive Offside, 1 yard, enforced at TB 2 - No Play.
4th and 1 at TB 1 M.Ingram left end to TB 1 for no gain (L.David, M.Foster). The Replay Assistant challenged the runner broke the plane ruling, and the play was Upheld.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1st and 10 at TB 29 D.Brees pass incomplete short right to J.Graham [L.David].
2nd and 10 at TB 29 (Shotgun) D.Brees pass incomplete short left to P.Thomas.
3rd and 10 at TB 29 (Shotgun) D.Brees pass short left to L.Moore to TB 14 for 15 yards (A.Black).
1st and 10 at TB 14 (Shotgun) D.Brees pass short left to P.Thomas to TB 8 for 6 yards (J.Banks).
2nd and 4 at TB 8 D.Brees pass incomplete short middle. PENALTY on NO-J.Evans, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at TB 8 - No Play.
2nd and 14 at TB 18 (Shotgun) D.Brees pass short left to P.Thomas to TB 17 for 1 yard (M.Barron, A.Clayborn).
3rd and 13 at TB 17 (Shotgun) D.Brees sacked at TB 23 for -6 yards (L.David).
4th and 19 at TB 23 (Field Goal formation) G.Hartley 41 yard field goal is GOOD

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1st and 9 at TB 9 D.Brees spiked the ball to stop the clock.
2nd and 9 at TB 9 (Field Goal formation) G.Hartley 27 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-J.Drescher, Holder-L.McCown.
I just included this one because it affects our stats in the red zone, but obviously this was a HUGE drive, and extremely efficient. Can't fault them on red zone efficiency on this one!

FALCONS GAME

2nd and 6 at NO 24 (Shotgun) D.Brees pass deep left to K.Stills to ATL 9 for 67 yards (R.McClain; R.Alford). Pass 24, YAC 43
1st and 9 at ATL 9 M.Ingram right guard to ATL 7 for 2 yards (C.Peters; A.Dent).
2nd and 7 at ATL 7 P.Thomas right guard to ATL 7 for no gain (J.Babineaux). PENALTY on NO-J.Evans, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at ATL 7 - No Play.
2nd and 17 at ATL 17 (Shotgun) D.Brees pass short right to D.Sproles to ATL 9 for 8 yards (S.Weatherspoon). PENALTY on NO-J.Evans, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at ATL 17 - No Play.

2nd and 27 at ATL 27 (Shotgun) D.Brees pass short right to D.Sproles to ATL 20 for 7 yards (W.Moore). Pass 2, YAC 5
3rd and 20 at ATL 20 D.Brees pass short middle to D.Sproles to ATL 13 for 7 yards (R.McClain). Pass 1, YAC 6
4th and 13 at ATL 13 G.Hartley 31 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-J.Drescher, Holder-L.McCown.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
1st and 10 at ATL 31 P.Thomas right tackle to ATL 26 for 5 yards (C.Peters; A.Dent).
2nd and 5 at ATL 26 D.Sproles left guard to ATL 25 for 1 yard (C.Peters).
3rd and 4 at ATL 25 (Shotgun) D.Brees pass deep middle to M.Colston for 25 yards, TOUCHDOWN. Pass 25, YAC 0 10 10
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
2nd and 12 at ATL 38 (Shotgun) D.Brees pass deep right to K.Stills to ATL 19 for 19 yards (R.McClain). Pass 19, YAC 0
1st and 10 at ATL 19 D.Sproles right guard to ATL 14 for 5 yards (T.DeCoud; S.Weatherspoon).
2nd and 5 at ATL 14 (Shotgun) D.Brees pass short right to J.Graham pushed ob at ATL 7 for 7 yards (R.McClain). Pass 4, YAC 3
Timeout #1 by NO at 06:29.
1st and 7 at ATL 7 D.Brees pass short right to J.Graham for 7 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1st and 10 at ATL 27 D.Sproles right guard to ATL 26 for 1 yard (O.Umenyiora). ATL-C.Peters was injured during the play. His return is Probable.
2nd and 9 at ATL 26 D.Brees sacked at ATL 31 for -5 yards (P.Jerry).
3rd and 14 at ATL 31 (Shotgun) D.Brees pass short right to M.Colston to ATL 12 for 19 yards (W.Moore). Pass 15, YAC 4
1st and 10 at ATL 12 M.Ingram left tackle to ATL 10 for 2 yards (W.Moore).
2nd and 8 at ATL 10 (Shotgun) D.Brees pass short left to P.Thomas to ATL 11 for -1 yards (S.Weatherspoon). Pass -3, YAC 2
3rd and 9 at ATL 11 (Shotgun) D.Brees pass short middle to L.Moore to ATL 4 for 7 yards (R.McClain). Pass 6, YAC 1

4th and 2 at ATL 4 G.Hartley 22 yard field goal is GOOD
---------------------------------------------------------------
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Last edited by SaintsBro; 09-18-2013 at 10:12 AM..
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Old 09-18-2013, 10:13 AM   #2
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Re: Saints Red Zone Trips, Broken Down

We need to throw in the red zone or run Pierre. I prefer throw like we use to. Graham goal line fade. Lance in the flats. Colston running the back of the end zone. Sproles on a out and in. Stuff like that.
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Old 09-18-2013, 10:18 AM   #3
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Re: Saints Red Zone Trips, Broken Down

Jhari's injury and Ingrams left foot. Reasons for the bulk of that.
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Old 09-18-2013, 10:27 AM   #4
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Re: Saints Red Zone Trips, Broken Down

I would like to see us run it down their throats.
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Old 09-18-2013, 11:15 AM   #5
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Re: Saints Red Zone Trips, Broken Down

Ouch. It gets even uglier, the more I look into it.

I looked at our backs, in JUST the red zone, or inside the 30. Obviously these numbers are compressed because of the short field, and ___ happens, but still.

Mark Ingram - 5 carries, for 4 yards (not counting the -5 false start penalty on him)
Pierre Thomas - 3 rushes for 5 yards. 3 catches for 7 yards.
Sproles - 3 rushes for 7 yards, 3 catches for 17.

So Ingram rushing = .8 YPC
Pierre = 1.6
Sproles = 2.3

Sproles passing = 5.6
Pierre passing = 2.3

I didn't fool with dropped passes, or which side they're rushing to, because ain't nobody got time for dat. But when you look at the sequences, or who did what, it looks like

(a) Ingram is not producing (which we already knew)
(b) Pierre is not producing as well as people think he is, when he IS given the ball in the red zone, and
(c) Sproles is being increasingly called on to bail the other two out, especially when you look at the sequencing of the plays, they will tend to go penalty/sack/Ingram, something bad happens, THEN Sproles... it's almost always going to Sproles AFTER a negative play or something bad happens. But sproles has the best yards and receptions of any of them!

No question, though, once we get inside the 15 yard line we have not been doing well at getting it into the end zone.
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Old 09-18-2013, 11:19 AM   #6
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Re: Saints Red Zone Trips, Broken Down

i love it when we are in the red zone 10 to yards out. thats drew comfort zone when passing. inside the 5 i will take 7 any day but i always expect 3
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Old 09-18-2013, 11:24 AM   #7
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Re: Saints Red Zone Trips, Broken Down

Issues with plays to the left, rushing especially, but passes also
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Old 09-18-2013, 11:24 AM   #8
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Re: Saints Red Zone Trips, Broken Down

Great breakdown. I'm looking at it different than most. Instead of pointing ALL blame on our RBs we may need to realize that our O-Line just isn't getting it done.

Also, our play calling has been a bit predictable. If you watch that goal line stop you will see that Tampa has too many free rushers for our number of blockers. From SPs comments I take it that they just guessed a perfect defense.
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Old 09-18-2013, 11:39 AM   #9
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Re: Saints Red Zone Trips, Broken Down

Originally Posted by SaintsBro View Post
Ouch. It gets even uglier, the more I look into it.

I looked at our backs, in JUST the red zone, or inside the 30. Obviously these numbers are compressed because of the short field, and ___ happens, but still.


I didn't fool with dropped passes, or which side they're rushing to, because ain't nobody got time for dat. But when you look at the sequences, or who did what, it looks like
Or didn't fool with Formation, Personnel, Play Design, Defensive Formation, successful blocks, missed blocks, and side of hash marks.


If I submitted this analysis for peer review, it would get rejected and my degree would be under suspicion. If we are going to bash, let's not ignore the data that might weaken our arguments.
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Old 09-18-2013, 11:45 AM   #10
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Re: Saints Red Zone Trips, Broken Down

Originally Posted by xan View Post
Or didn't fool with Formation, Personnel, Play Design, Defensive Formation, successful blocks, missed blocks, and side of hash marks.


If I submitted this analysis for peer review, it would get rejected and my degree would be under suspicion. If we are going to bash, let's not ignore the data that might weaken our arguments.

You do it. Be my guest.
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