New Orleans Saints - blackandgold.com

New Orleans Saints - blackandgold.com (http://blackandgold.com/community/)
-   Saints (http://blackandgold.com/saints/)
-   -   Who is to blame? (http://blackandgold.com/saints/6129-who-blame.html)

WhoDat 10-13-2004 03:03 PM

Who is to blame?
 
A certain moderator on this board has continued to criticize another for pointing the finger of blame at Jim Haslett first and foremost. I'm wondering what you guys think. Who is most to blame? How would you break up the percentages between these factors for the Saints poor play this year, and over the last few years?


Tom Benson
Mickey Loomis
Jim Haslett
Rick Venturi
Mike McCarthy
Aaron Brooks (that's just for SF)
All of the other players except AB who continue to let AB down. LOL
Luck
Injuries
Other Factors not Mentioned

Break it up and tell me what you think. Also - should Haslett have to answer for the play of his team? Should he be held responsible for Venturi, McCarthy, the player moves, and the results on Sundays?

BrooksMustGo 10-13-2004 03:05 PM

Who is to blame?
 
Oh it\'s the fans, 100%. If anyone hears a \"boo\" they fold.

saintfan 10-13-2004 03:05 PM

Who is to blame?
 
So the old poll didn\'t pan out the way you wanted so you figured you\'d start a new one. This is beneath you whodat...really man. LOL

Rick Venturi

:popcorn:

JOESAM2002 10-13-2004 03:09 PM

Who is to blame?
 
The wheels on this bus go round and round, round and round, round and round. The wheels on THIS bus go round and round. :seeingstars:

WhoDat 10-13-2004 03:18 PM

Who is to blame?
 
Hey Joe, I\'m trying to avoid it. Problem is, SF follows 08 and I around this forum like a stray dog. I just went back and looked. There have been a good number of anti-brooks and anti-haz posts on this board in the last two to three weeks. Do you know that SF has not responded to a single one that 08 or I didn\'t either start or first get involved in?

I started this thread to open discussion between OTHERS. I know SF\'s opinion. I was hoping others would chime in - but alas, he followed me to this thread as usual. I bet if 08 and I stopped posting, the man who claims to be the defender of fair assessments wouldn\'t post much. I\'m just looking to get someone else\'s opinion.

saintfan 10-13-2004 03:23 PM

Who is to blame?
 
You started this thread for \"others\", yet you open it with this:

Quote:

A certain moderator on this board has continued to criticize another for pointing the finger of blame at Jim Haslett first and foremost.
Doode, you\'re sad man. I recognize your tactics.

By the way, I started a couple that you felt the need to jump in on. I\'m not sure I see precisely what you mean? LOL ;)

[Edited on 13/10/2004 by saintfan]

Cassady37 10-13-2004 03:28 PM

Who is to blame?
 
Alright, I\'ll bite.....

Haslett-75%
Loomis-15%
Benson-10%

Haslett has had his way in whatever he has asked and this is HIS team. The coaches he has surrounded himself with has been his picks. The draft choices have been his picks and the cancers booted and kept have been his choices. Loomis is partly responsible because he is suppose to police the progress and decline of progress and make recommendations to Benson. Benson is the owner, but he can\'t be held too responsible because his bottom line is money and he continues to rake it in, win or lose.

D_it_up 10-13-2004 03:31 PM

Who is to blame?
 
Tom Benson 25% (Has kept Haslett around a season too long and got rid of Mueller)

Mickey Loomis (3% Mickey is more of a patsy than anything...he\'s just keeping the GM seat warm for when a REAL GM comes in...He just picks up the players that Haslett wants)

Jim Haslett (20% Keeps the worst coordinators in the league around, isn\'t a good motivator...needs to go back to defensive coordinator somewhere else)

Rick Venturi (10%-Let\'s face it. Defense has been atrocious with him at the helm)

Mike McCarthy (7%-One of the worst playcallers in the league, but still somehow manages to get the talent to work from time-to-time)

Aaron Brooks (5%-It\'s not his fault that Haslett doesn\'t want another QB to come in and replace him, but it is his fault that he hasn\'t improved his leadership skills)

All of the other players except AB who continue to let AB down. LOL (5%-It\'s a team effort...can\'t produce though when the coaching blows)

Luck (15%-WAYYYYYYYY too many close call games...games lost by a dropped pass, missed extra point, stupid penalties, turnovers, or defensive lapses)

Injuries (8%-Injuries have effected this team somewhat, but not the extent some believe. Darren Howard was the biggest injury we had last year)

Other Factors not Mentioned (2% ....Never taking blame for screwing another one up, Too many \"cancers\", Too many excuses that aren\'t fixed, Too many mental breakdowns in-game, etc...) Actually should be larger, but most of it goes hand in hand with the coaching.

fact-o-bake 10-13-2004 04:05 PM

Who is to blame?
 
I feel you have to blame the head coach first and foremost. If the players do poorly, it\'s either lack of talent, technique, game plan or desire. Talent is the one thing that can\'t be coached, but the head coach has a say in what kind of talent we acquire and where. The General Manager is typically the top dog in terms of signing the talented players, but it is the coach\'s responsibilty to make the best out of the tools he has to work with. As far as the saints go, the one thing they are not short on is talent.

LordOfEntropy 10-13-2004 04:29 PM

Who is to blame?
 
The coordinators get my vote. They\'re just plain awful. Perhaps McCarthy would do well as a quarterbacks coach again, but he can\'t run an offense. And Venturi... well, I don\'t think I even need to comment on him.

And Haslett is responsible... somewhate because he chose those coordinators in the first place, but even more so because he kept them in their roles after it was apparent they were getting beaten. He\'s even made comments to the media after games about being outcoached - but he\'s done nothing about it.

I put little to no blame on Loomis, as he\'s kept the cap well within control. There\'s certainly a reasonable amount of raw talent on the roster. I would preferred to have kept Meuller around, as I feel he was the difference maker for that playoff game. But after his departure, well, I believe Loomis has done reasonably well, at least well enough to not be made a scapegoat out of.

I blame Benson very little, really the only major gripe I have is the Meuller firing. Benson still pays the largest payroll in the entire NFL, does he not? He\'s shelling out the cash. I think his intentions are good, that he wants to see a champion in New Orleans before he dies.

But if he keeps Haslett-them-down-too-many-times, he\'ll never see it.


saintz08 10-13-2004 05:16 PM

Who is to blame?
 
Quote:

Problem is, SF follows 08 and I around this forum like a stray dog.
I do supposee that is why he changed his avatar to a small cartoon character on a big wheel .....Get\'s him there faster ...

WhoDat 10-13-2004 06:31 PM

Who is to blame?
 
Quote:

I do supposee that is why he changed his avatar to a small cartoon character on a big wheel .....Get\'s him there faster ...
LMAO. God that\'s funny.

Quote:

The coordinators get my vote. They\'re just plain awful. Perhaps McCarthy would do well as a quarterbacks coach again, but he can\'t run an offense. And Venturi... well, I don\'t think I even need to comment on him.

And Haslett is responsible... somewhate because he chose those coordinators in the first place, but even more so because he kept them in their roles after it was apparent they were getting beaten. He\'s even made comments to the media after games about being outcoached - but he\'s done nothing about it.
LOE - that pretty much sums up how I feel. Haslett could probably make a decent coordinator, but he\'s just a bad head coach. It didn\'t help that Zook left him, but he\'s had ample time to replace Venturi, who is quite possibly the worst coordinator in the league.

I said at the time that Zook left that it was a very big loss for the Saints. I think he had more to do with the Saints early successes than any other person except maybe Mueller. Those two, IMO, meant more to the org. than any person currently on the staff.

As far as Haslett goes, he ultimately has made most of the decisions for the last three+ years and they just always seems to be wrong. He needs to replace his D-Coordinator, but doesn\'t act. His D-line is quite good so he reshuffles it a handful of times. The team needs corners he drafts WRs. It just seems to me that the Saints will never be successful with him as HC - and whether that\'s his fault or not is really irrelevant. I wanted him gone after the second collapse in 2002. He definitely needed to be fired after last year. Maybe Benson finally gets it. Afterall, Billy did, if he can anyone can.

BlackandBlue 10-13-2004 08:15 PM

Who is to blame?
 
I blame WhoDat

bayouking318 10-13-2004 09:20 PM

Who is to blame?
 
Rick Venturi 99.9%

Let me tell you why. The only reason I can see McCarthy is not having us attacking fast and quick with touchdowns, throwing more deep passes is that our defense is so bad that the other teams will score just as fast. Trying to manage a game so our young defense will not lose compsure is wrong but having a def coordinator that can\'t lead horse to water is just plain dumb. I hear alot of people speaking highly of Venturi but what have he done beside kiss Benson a$$. The defense has drop tremendous since he been def coord. players are unmotivated to play for him. Getting rid of Venturi will be the best improvement and could be only a step forward

themightyduck 10-13-2004 09:49 PM

Who is to blame?
 
25% Rick Venturi - It\'s pretty much agreed on why he is largely responsible for the team\'s shortcomings on defense...

25% Jim Haslett - He continues to bewilder the media with his team\'s up and down performances, and his pink slip is becoming more and more realistic with every loss.

25% Mike McCarthy - Not only has he continued to define predictability, he still cannot get the most out of his players i.e. Donte Stallworth.

10% Mickey Loomis - He puts Benson\'s pocketbook first and the team second. Last offseason\'s free agent pickups were horrid. Two (Sam Gash and Germane Crowell) aren\'t even with the team, and Brian Young and Jason Craft have done little to nothing. And he even blamed himself for the team\'s suckiness for God\'s sake!

10% Saints Players - With the exception of Charles Grant, no one on this team has portrayed any sort of true leadership ability or energy. We still look like 53 players playing for the next paycheck.

5% Tom Benson - He has made enough dumb decisions since his first year to write a book on. He let Zook go without a fight, dropped Mueller only because he didn\'t like him, and has never even thought about firing our coordinators and our head coach.

Here\'s an idea for a new coaching staff, Tom: Hire the entire John Curtis High School coaching staff. :P If Curtis played the Saints tonight, I\'d put my money on Curtis.


WhoDat 10-13-2004 10:13 PM

Who is to blame?
 
Quote:

I blame WhoDat
No, it wasn\'t me, it was my agenda. The agenda is to blame! HA!

Quote:

The only reason I can see McCarthy is not having us attacking fast and quick with touchdowns, throwing more deep passes is that our defense is so bad that the other teams will score just as fast.
That\'s interesting. I think McCarthy\'s play calling is sometime brilliant, often overly predictable - but I couldn\'t ever really figure out why they used Deuce like Stephen Davis. IMO, the Saints offense should be spread and Deuce should run out of 3 and 4 WR sets like Faulk did with the Rams.

I\'m not sure how much truth there is to your statement, but it provides at least one explanation for why McCarthy calls games like he does. Unlike Venturi, I don\'t think McCarthy is just a dolt.

Limiting other teams\' possessions against our defense seems valid. I think he doesn\'t throw the deep ball b/c he has a QB who can\'t air it out very well. That\'s part of the reason I think they\'ve drafted the type of WRs who are explosive enough to turn a 7 yard slant into a 70 yard TD. Our QB is real good at throwing laser shots on short crossing patterns. Still, that\'s not nearly enough to explain why they don\'t spread it out throw it around and then utilize Deuce after the pass is established. I like it.

Saintsfan4ever 10-14-2004 12:12 AM

Who is to blame?
 
I really like Jim Haslett. I really want him to do well..... but.... sorry Jim, it just aint happenin for ya... and I can`t make any excuses for him.
Once you get below Benson and Loomis, whatever percent of blame is left over goes mainly on Haslett. And I think he knows that.

I do not want to see Jim go........what I want to see is Haslett turn this thing around. Can he do it?.... i dunno.... probably not......but hey, I`m a Saints fan, it`s in my nature to root for the underdog.

I`m not ready to give up on our season either. I wanta see these guys get their act together. Am I optimistically delusional?..maybe so... but something to note... I`ve never heard AB, Duece, Horn, Lewis, Boo, Grant, Howard or any of the players who have been around the block ever say anything negative about the coaching or the play calling.......

...has anyone heard the players comment or suggest that the blame is any thing other than their own ?

saintz08 10-14-2004 01:57 AM

Who is to blame?
 
Quote:

Oh it\'s the fans, 100%
:soleil: Saintfan did it .....

All those off season glory reports , the staff started believing them ...... ;)

[Edited on 14/10/2004 by saintz08]

saintfan 10-14-2004 08:42 AM

Who is to blame?
 
Where\'s the cops when you need \'em? Whodat? LMAO

Is this the \"Who is to blame\" thread or the \"Who is responsible\" thread?

Jim is responsible

The defense (Rick Venturi) seems, to me, to be most to blame.

bayouking318 10-14-2004 09:19 AM

Who is to blame?
 
Quote:

. I`ve never heard AB, Duece, Horn, Lewis, Boo, Grant, Howard or any of the players who have been around the block ever say anything negative about the coaching or the play calling.......

...has anyone heard the players comment or suggest that the blame is any thing other than their own ?
To answer your question ...YES... Last year Horn complain that OC didn\'t call plays that put the ball in his hands enough...Howard, I read in a magazine will not consider resigning cuz of his differences with Venturi...

I believe the only reasons we haven\'t heard anything from Boo cuz this his 1st year of notice, This Grant 3rd season and before this season is up I believe we will hear plenty from him bout Venturi.

subguy 10-14-2004 02:16 PM

Who is to blame?
 
I assume full responsibilty for all that is wrong......... :thumbsup:

Actually I think it was Colonel Mustard, in the Conservatory, with the lead pipe


[Edited on 14/10/2004 by subguy]

JOESAM2002 10-14-2004 02:25 PM

Who is to blame?
 
Me? I don\'t have a CLUE! :dance:


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:10 PM.


Copyright 1997 - 2018 - BlackandGold.com