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Are we all delusional?

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; posted on 26/6/2004 at 13:02 Old Post but this season has show it to be profetic Every year, like most Saints Fans, I remove logic and reason from my thoughts and project the Saints into the playoffs. It begins honestly ...

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Old 10-14-2004, 11:01 PM   #1
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Are we all delusional?

posted on 26/6/2004 at 13:02
Old Post but this season has show it to be profetic

Every year, like most Saints Fans, I remove logic and reason from my thoughts and project the Saints into the playoffs.
It begins honestly enough, blinded by hope and longing, I begin to make the Saints player better than they really are.
I think we can all agree that for the last few years the Saints were not able to put a combination of players in place to form a solid group of linebackers.
So to address this glaring need the Saints drafted Watson in the 2nd round.
Is that it? Is this rookie the answer?
Has there not been one FA available that would have made the Saints better?
I guess the Saints are saying that Trotter would not be an upgrade from the unproven group they are depending on. That actually is the beauty of unproven talent – You can project greatness on any player. The trouble with that approach is that most of the players will never live up to the projections made by coaches and fans.
What I don’t understand (I am sure some of you will be willing to help me understand) is what is the down side of signing Trotter? Do we expect him to be a team “cancerââ ‚¬??

Let the delusions begin –

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Old 10-15-2004, 07:54 AM   #2
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Are we all delusional?

I\'ve knocked the Saints too for their moves, and often lack thereof, in FA. The Saints have chosen to build their team through the draft. The logic has been that by building with young talented players, the Saints will be talented (and thus competitive) for years to come.

Like you, I have wanted to see the Saints some impact or marquee players. Two years ago I thought they need some proven talent on D. This past offseason, I thought we were a few key upgrades on D away from having the players we need to make a push. The Saints have chosen to go a different route. Their plan wasn\'t necesarily poorly thought out, it\'s just failed. The staff has failed in recognizing the short-comings and adjusting the plan. A few key pick ups that bring fire, leadership, and consistent play would go a long way for this team. Players who can make plays, especially on defense, wuold be huge also.

\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse


\"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\"
he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"
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Old 10-15-2004, 08:24 AM   #3
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Are we all delusional?

\"Are we all delusional?\"-

Default answer for all Saints fans-YES.
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Old 10-15-2004, 12:50 PM   #4
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Are we all delusional?

Who, since you and I agree on this one, here is my Devil\'s Advocate for you.

Imagine we get Trotter or Petersen and one of the second rate corners that people paid top money for. Our Defense would be better against the run and we win the game against the Cardinals.

However, that said, our defense hasn\'t been the only problem this year. As usual, the offense is hit or miss; whether this is primarily on Brooks, the coaching, or the line is up for grabs. Thus, we\'d still have a lot of trouble even with good FA picks. In fact, I bet we\'d be in about the same place - perhaps our offense would be even MORE lacidaisical (sp?) if they thought the defense could back them up some?

What say you?

"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks :cool:
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Old 10-15-2004, 12:57 PM   #5
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Are we all delusional?

I have also been very critical of the moves made by our Saints in the off-season. I have maintained that our mission to upgrade the D required a stud LB and a great CB to fill the holes that were obvious to me.

I railed against our lack of movement in FA. I argued that Fred Thomas, while being a competitor, would likely be a number 2 guy at best on any other team. AA is just plain awful.

I complained about our draft because I didn\'t feel it addressed our needs, only to be talked down to by all the statisticians who sqawk about the \"best value\" player at that point in the draft. In retrospect, it seems that only our third pick is playing significant time and he is raw, raw, raw. He may become our solution at MLB, but he is very much the rookie now.

So, am I tooting my own horn here? No way, it could just have easily turned out that all our moves (or lack thereof) just come together to put together a winning team - but my general opinion based on my experience at the time seems to have played out true.

Our off-season moves have to be viewed as a failure in all phases (FA, Draft, etc.) That is a coaching failure in all phases.

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Old 10-15-2004, 02:19 PM   #6
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Are we all delusional?

What say you?
I think the offense is not playing up, no doubt. But the problem with this team is the coaching staff and defense. While I agree with your general point, my first beef is with the coaches. Also, to say that things would have turned out the same way with a better defense is kind of stretching, IMO.

Maybe our defense keeps things tighter against Seattle and we have a chance to win our opener. SF, and St Louis don\'t go down to the wire. AZ doesn\'t turn the momentum of the game after AB fumbles in the end zone. TB can\'t work down the field and run out the clock last week. Point is, who knows. A 31st ranked defense that can\'t stop the run just isn\'t the formula for a SB/playoff team. I agree, even with better players the problem is still ultimately the coaching staff - but this argument has been made elsewhere on this board and I find it unconvincing. Simply b/c something is not the biggest problem does not mean that it should not be addressed. Cops on the street don\'t pass on arresting thieves until all of the murderers are locked up. Yeah, you focus on the murderers first, but you don\'t ignore the thieves. Same logic should apply here, but rarely seems to. In fact, if you listen to the coaching staff, you might believe that there\'s really no crime at all.

Our off-season moves have to be viewed as a failure in all phases (FA, Draft, etc.) That is a coaching failure in all phases.
I agree completely. The argument against this standpoint is that they have addressed the areas od need DT (Young), LB (Watson), CB (Craft) - but those moves have not been adequate to fill the need. There is a difference between addressing a need, and adequately addressing a need, IMO.

\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse


\"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\"
he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"
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Old 10-15-2004, 02:41 PM   #7
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Are we all delusional?

Amen, brotha. Coaching blows. We did address needs, just not spectacularly, and (coaching again) we haven\'t gotten what we need from who we have (and it is NOT obvious to me that it is a player problem).
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Old 10-15-2004, 02:56 PM   #8
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Are we all delusional?

The only problem with drafting young talent and grooming them into great players is that someone else will likely benefit from your hard work. Life in the NFL is me, me, me, now, now, now. So when you get this player to a level that they\'re excelling they become free agents and go where the most money is offered. Loyalty to a team is becoming extinct, but on the other hand, so is loyalty from the team to the player. Old school football was trying to get the most talented players and kick some arse. Now there\'s salary cap, roster limits, agents, media, endorsements, ESPN and ego\'s to contend with. To be a champion it really is a juggling act between so many different factors not to mention getting your fair share of luck to go with it. Just an observation from a humble slave to Saints Football.
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Old 10-15-2004, 03:03 PM   #9
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Real good point Cassady, however the Saints have a young nucleus of good players on both sides of the ball. If they can get a coach who will discipline them, disallow the excuses and lackadasical attitude that seems to infect this team, and either get more out of their young guys or supplement the team with some proven veteran leaders, this team, from a personnel standpoint, is not far away, IMO.
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