Go Back   New Orleans Saints - blackandgold.com > Main > Saints
View Poll Results: What positions should the front office focus on in the 2014 NFL Draft?
Outside Linebacker 21 23.33%
Tackle (Offense) 48 53.33%
Safety 12 13.33%
Inside Linebacker 17 18.89%
Center 26 28.89%
Cornerback 29 32.22%
Wide Receiver 32 35.56%
Guard 9 10.00%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 90. You may not vote on this poll

2014 NFL Draft

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by TheOak You said cap casualty so that's why I mentioned the dead money. Can you replace both for less than 7m or get better at those positions for less than 7m? That is the million dollar question ...

Like Tree466Likes

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-25-2014, 12:04 AM   #661
LB Mentallity
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,762
Blog Entries: 40
Re: 2014 NFL Draft

Originally Posted by TheOak View Post
You said cap casualty so that's why I mentioned the dead money. Can you replace both for less than 7m or get better at those positions for less than 7m?
That is the million dollar question my freind and the key point i was making by the solution of drafting LB this year.

better to have one year of playing audition before the asking that question when next years checks start to be written

Just another way to look at the draft.

1 3rd plus a 4th and 2 sixths are cheap money. all you need is at least 1 of four to step up. thats it. makes 2015 FA that much easier.

As for the final dollar amounts of a contract it really makes no difference how you get there when are talking Drew and Byrd next year because it is very unlikely they are going anywhere. So in reality have very little to with the point of my post. then again cut drew and you get about 12 million in cap room. so i guess that is an option

this is the numbers you need to dig into and see how this are given out over the life of the contract.
  • $22 million in incentive guarantees
there in lies the difference incentive guarantees is a cutely dressed up bonus check. I use to chase the accounting down but i stopped a few years ago. nothing ever really matched up
jeanpierre likes this.

There is a "Report Post" button underneath everyone's avatar.
"We may have lost the game, but you'll be hurting tomorrow." Doug Atkins Sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought an idiot, than to open it and remove all doubt!!!!!

Last edited by hagan714; 03-25-2014 at 12:41 AM..
hagan714 is offline  
Latest Blogs
REFUND Last Blog: 12-07-2014 By: xan




Saints: A glimpse of the future Last Blog: 11-19-2014 By: lee909


Old 03-25-2014, 04:13 AM   #662
1000 Posts +
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,026
Re: 2014 NFL Draft

After looking at youtube highlights, I've come to rank the 10 receivers(including Moncrief, excluding Watkins) officially.

1.Evans....made tricky catches, could catch deep passes.
2.Beckman Jr....has speed and explosiveness, tough
3.Benjamin........has toughness, could make some difficult catches, but has agility weakness.
4.Cooks............has great speed, has a small frame, can even rush the ball. Will be seen if he needs to get tougher.
5.Richardson.....Another fast receiver, has height but like Cooks could need toughness. Only knock is playing in the Big Ten.
6.Matthews......Has more physical strength than Cooks and Richardson, but didnt see the lightning quickness of them.
7.Moncrief........I did see the toughness I just wasnt as impressed with everything else. Speed a little off and I see more of a systematic role for him.
8.Robinson.......Same traits as Moncrief, but as I said its Big Ten football.
9.Lee................Will need developing. Injury looked to affect him, just didnt see anything that wowed me.
10.Adams.........Fresno has a history of producing disappointments. Because of that and him playing against too much holes, he's most likely to flop.
WillSaints81 is offline  
Old 03-25-2014, 07:28 AM   #663
Site Donor 2014
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Bayou Cane
Posts: 6,961
Blog Entries: 13
Re: 2014 NFL Draft

Want to announce a pick at the 2014 ‎NFLDraft‬?

ENTER > 2014 NFL Draft Dream Sweepstakes


Could you see someone get up there and geaux rouge and pick who'd they'd want and not who the team would want?!?

My bet would be on a J-E-T-S fan...

Last edited by jeanpierre; 03-25-2014 at 07:31 AM..
jeanpierre is offline  
Old 03-25-2014, 07:37 AM   #664
Site Donor 2014
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Watford England
Posts: 3,742
Blog Entries: 1
Re: 2014 NFL Draft

And with the 6th pick of the draft the Atlanta Falcons select Paul Layton punter from Temple
Utah_Saint likes this.
lee909 is offline  
Old 03-25-2014, 08:50 AM   #665
10000 POST CLUB
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cypress Tx.
Posts: 16,193
Re: 2014 NFL Draft

Originally Posted by hagan714 View Post
That is the million dollar question my freind and the key point i was making by the solution of drafting LB this year.

better to have one year of playing audition before the asking that question when next years checks start to be written

Just another way to look at the draft.

1 3rd plus a 4th and 2 sixths are cheap money. all you need is at least 1 of four to step up. thats it. makes 2015 FA that much easier.

As for the final dollar amounts of a contract it really makes no difference how you get there when are talking Drew and Byrd next year because it is very unlikely they are going anywhere. So in reality have very little to with the point of my post. then again cut drew and you get about 12 million in cap room. so i guess that is an option

this is the numbers you need to dig into and see how this are given out over the life of the contract.
  • $22 million in incentive guarantees
there in lies the difference incentive guarantees is a cutely dressed up bonus check. I use to chase the accounting down but i stopped a few years ago. nothing ever really matched up

On Lofton
- Curtis Lofton is your veteran Mike Line Backer, I know the "leadership" tag is used for veteran players ad nauseam, but Lofton is the leader of the defense on the field... he is the defensive QB and play caller. You may be able to bring in a rookie that can play as well as Lofton but it will take more than a season for him to get up to speed on calling the defense. That position/roll requires a veteran. I think he should be replaced due to his play, not his contract.


On the Cap and Contracts - Back when you were chasing the details there were not websites that did it for you like spotrac and overthecap. These days it is easy if you don't interchange two terms BONUS and GUARANTEED.

Bonus - A bonus is in addition to what is in the salary column. This falls into 3 categories but is captured in 2 columns on spotrac
1. S. Bonus is signing bonus- Player gets it when he signs but it is evenly distributed through out the contract for Cap Purposes.

2. (Misc. Bonus) Categories 1 and 2 all in the Misc Column , the devil is in the bullet pointed details under the table. The two categories for bonuses are LTBE (Likely To Be Earned)and NLTBE (Not Likely To Be Earned), LTBE are counted against the cap from the start. Drew Brees being the kind of guy he is will make all the work outs so that 250k is an LTBE bonus and is counted in addition to his salary.

Guaranteed - This money is included in the Salary Column number.

Lets look at 2015 - Drew Brees base Salary is $18.7m, the Team has a three day window after the waiver period begins (5 days after the Super Bowl), to release Drew. If he is not released then more than 50% of that 18.7m becomes guaranteed, meaning if he is cut 2 weeks after the Super Bowl he will still get 11m of that 18.7m salary. This is called "Incentive Guarantee" but not because it is an incentive for Drew to meet certain goals, it is an incentive for the Saints to decide with in 3 days to 1. keep Drew Brees, 2. Release Drew Brees, 3. Restructure that contract.

To your Bullet 22m - Correct, Drews contract has 22M guaranteed in the last 2 years IF he is not released by a certain date. That is not a bonus, that just means that portion of his salary is Guaranteed. Spotrac identifies both years as over 1/2 of his salary in 2015 and 2016 become guaranteed. Over 1/2 of those salaries is roughly 11m per/year x2 = 22m.

Lofton and Byrd have actual Roster Bonus meaning they get an "addition to" bonus for being on the roster, and that is reflected in their tables.
Byrd - 2015 Roster Bonus of 6.1m
Jairus Byrd Salary Cap, Contracts, Salaries, Cap Hits, & News Profile

Lofton - 2013-14-15 He has roster bonuses
Curtis Lofton Salary Cap, Contracts, Salaries, Cap Hits, & News Profile


The piece of the puzzle you are missing is the restructuring of Drew Brees contract in 2015 which would free up 8m-10m each year with out losing your QB.

How do I think this will play out in 2015 and 2016? Drew restructured and took a paycut in 2009 and he will do it again if needed. The ultimate goal is to free up cap space with out creating any dead money.

2015 - The team keeps Drew Brees and if the cap hasn't increased enough for Loomis to do what needs to be done for the team Drew can forfeit his un-guaranteed salary around 8.5m and that creates that much cap space while still paying him $10m in salary that season.

2016 - Same as above but his salary is 11m instead of 10m...

Drew made 10m in 2013, and 11m in 2014 so the 2015 and 2015 numbers fall in line.

Now this will get very sticky if We win a Super Bowl in 2014 or 2015 and Drew is MVP in either. He may decide he is not on his way out and not give anything up... Look at it this way, if we are winning SBs then Drews contract isn't hurting us now is it?

amazin15 likes this.

If you play stupid games, you win stupid prizes.

Like and vote https://www.facebook.com/pages/Charl...44287815781246
TheOak is offline  
Old 03-25-2014, 05:42 PM   #666
LB Mentallity
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,762
Blog Entries: 40
Re: 2014 NFL Draft

What drew does in 2015 is what drew does. his numbers are what they are. same with byrd. contract are structured in such a way there is plenty flux built in. i really stopped trying to figure them out to the penny. these two players will be saints bar divine inspiration of some kind. Thats why i only mentioned them and did not include them in playing around with the issue at LB.

The piece of the puzzle you are missing is the restructuring of Drew Brees contract in 2015 which would free up 8m-10m each year with out losing your QB.
No it was not because that money if restructured has to be ear marked for now. for other more important players to sign. Jordan has to be signed and is Graham is tagged for 2014 then you have to worry about him. Ingram could shock the world and have a pro bowl season so he might be a must sign. Robertson could do the same. then what?

So it comes down to it the most obvious area of secondary spending and that at LB next year. but like drew there is a lot of would of, could of crap not worth talking about. Besides if Drew does restructure as we all believe he will do then his money can help deal with all the above issues.

So i was pointing out that ILB can handle ILB without getting a bunch of other players involved. an in house approach. This very well could be the main side show topic of the 2015 season. so i stuck within the LB corp itself. you can wait and deal with it next year or you can see if you can find some players that give you options. add to it the obvious area of need to improve the LB unit as a whole.

I prefer to see the team go into the 2015 with LB's realizing that there jobs are not secure because they are being pushed. If you lose a player on defense like we did with sproles this year it would be sweet to have a player already on the team.

Do i see us losing lofton? no i do not. but then again seeing Darren go Philli was a huge surprise. As of right now the offense has a hug whole to fill and i hate to see us with a gaping whole in the middle of the defense. we are at a point were we can address the depth issues and try to minimize the off season issues. we are not desperate for a starter but need players that can develop into starters in a bad way. either way it is a win win

I see Lofton and Hawthon both in black and gold. Say they finish contracts here wouldn't it be nice to have an upgraded LB corp ready to step in and take over. especially a third rounder vs a first. cap freindly

there is a chance in this years draft to change the ILB corp like not seen in recent years. there are some seriously good players with a high floor to start and plenty ceiling to look forward to. Quality players like these very rarely make it this deep in a draft, Only because this is a very deep year at all the other positions.

Now the money is the money and the contracts are loaded with sliding scales on every level and change every year. guaranteed un guaranteed work out whatever the lawyers break it into both of our ILB are the prime players that maybe the topic of discussion in 2015. whether it is a big deal our not is mickey job and he will handle it. heck he signed Byrd.

once again. if LB becomes the area of surprise need in 2015 it would be nice to have found a player this year that can really push for the starting job if needed. It would be a waste not to advantage of a draft like this if the cards fall right. yes if you lose a veteran player there will be enough savings in the cap to cover addition mid to late round picks.

my picks that fit that situation would be

Round 3
Christian Jones ILB/OLB Florida ST. 6031 240 4.74
Round 4
Max Bullough, ILB/OLB Michigan St 6034 249 4.78
Round 6
Howard Jones, OLB/ILB, Shepherd 6025 235 4.60

Top Free agaent
Caleb Lavey, ILB, Oklahoma St 6021 235 4.64

It has a very good chance to be a win win for the saints going into the future no matter what happens.

There is a "Report Post" button underneath everyone's avatar.
"We may have lost the game, but you'll be hurting tomorrow." Doug Atkins Sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought an idiot, than to open it and remove all doubt!!!!!

Last edited by hagan714; 03-25-2014 at 05:47 PM..
hagan714 is offline  
Old 03-25-2014, 06:48 PM   #667
1000 Posts +
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,026
Re: 2014 NFL Draft

Next up I will be analyzing my cornerbacks. But don't feel its as big of a need as first thought.
hagan714 likes this.
WillSaints81 is offline  
Old 03-25-2014, 08:49 PM   #668
1000 Posts +
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,026
Re: 2014 NFL Draft

Here are my top 11 cornerbacks after reviewing some game tapes and all.

1.Justin Gilbert...Not much needs to be said, he played in the offensive Big 12, has incredible speed and great defensive abilities.
2.Jason Verrett..Also Big 12 cb, and not as good as Gilbert, but its not that wide a gap.
3.Daqueeze Dennard..If not spelling right sorry, but he had best highlight reels........he also played against Big Ten teams. Because of that he gets moved to 3.
4.Bradley Roby.....Beware though as we know what happened with Jenkins. Roby had some great plays, had one big defensive td. He is a buckeye, a team whose players have not played best in recent memory in the pros.
5.Kyle Fuller.......He's a turnover beast, but the speed is not all that there. The most he returned was 10 yards
6.Stanley Jean-Baptiste...Another Big Ten but he played for a team who has produced defensive talent. He's not great at garnering turnovers but forcing incompletions and tacking.
7.Jaylen Watkins....Some are saying he's a safety, he was more effective to me than his teammate two spots below. The fact that he's in SEC I give a pass as given the competition he played I would say he did well for this spot.
8.Lamarcus Joyner....He had too many tacking plays and sacking the qb. Not much I saw as far as defending the pass was concerned. He was good with what limited stuff I saw, but turnovers not so much.
9.Marcus Roberson...The other UF teammate, his stuff didnt look as strong as Watkins. Didnt see much turnover production from him.
10.Bashaun Breeland....Might be too big in size for a cb, while better than where I rank him I see this guy as injury prone.
11.Pierre Desir......Other than one game where he was going off, he looked average everywhere else. And he's also in division 2. I think strong players who play motivated in division 2 are pro caliber, but this one wasn't.
MarchingOn likes this.
WillSaints81 is offline  
Old 03-25-2014, 09:12 PM   #669
Registered
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Monroe, LA
Posts: 98
Re: 2014 NFL Draft

Originally Posted by hagan714 View Post
my picks that fit that situation would be

Round 3
Christian Jones ILB/OLB Florida ST. 6031 240 4.74
Round 4
Max Bullough, ILB/OLB Michigan St 6034 249 4.78
Round 6
Howard Jones, OLB/ILB, Shepherd 6025 235 4.60

Top Free agaent
Caleb Lavey, ILB, Oklahoma St 6021 235 4.64

It has a very good chance to be a win win for the saints going into the future no matter what happens.
What if C.J. Mosley is on the board when we pick at 27?
hagan714 likes this.
amazin15 is offline  
Old 03-26-2014, 08:01 AM   #670
LB Mentallity
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,762
Blog Entries: 40
Re: 2014 NFL Draft

Originally Posted by amazin15 View Post
What if C.J. Mosley is on the board when we pick at 27?

you had to throw a monkey wrench in there. gee thanks.

been looking at that one. funny thing is he is falling in the draft due to POSSIBLE nerve damage to his leg from that knee injury. as rumors have it. if all checks out ok enough i would love the pick up.

but i would still like to see the saints go even further into the draft upgrading the LB depth with more 34 LB that can play inside and out on the edges. LB is the one area on this tea, that has not been addressed for the 34 switch.

I like 34 defense. you need a boat load of LB on the team. that is always good news for the special team coach.


here is were i would rethink the LB. it is a tough call. you got
Round 3
Christian Jones ILB/OLB Florida ST. 6031 240 4.74
definitely the well rounded LB of the two. inside outside in the slot. Jones came into the season ranked behind CJ at LB round 1/2 player. Skill set is there but FSU put him at DE and killed his rankings and development. but anytime he was put back at ILB you could see why he was so highly rated. he would call out coverage and almost always point out the right player to cover on a given play. i was very impressed with this ability above all the others this year.

Round 4
Max Bullough, ILB/OLB Michigan St 6034 249 4.78
Here is the the thumper. Pass coverage is ok but he has great instincts
Max IMO was the heart and soul of that MSU defense. Off field issues killed him. talk about nit picking. the kid really did not do anything that serious just had bad timing.

misdemeanor assault and eluding a police officer. Bullough was also charged with eluding, as well as underage possession of alcohol. It was reported that the police had to use a stun gun to subdue Linthicum.

Michigan State and Auburn Football Players Arrested | Sports in the Courts Blog

sorry i was lmao at that one. brought back memories of my youth. difference was the cops never caught me and my friend got beat with a billy club not a stun gun. cops have not changed just their weapons. they hate to run.

this wish list remains the same
Round 6
Howard Jones, OLB/ILB, Shepherd 6025 235 4.60
Inside outside quick solid pass coverage skills and should big plus on special teams from day one. level of competition is the concern.

Top Free agaent
Caleb Lavey, ILB, Oklahoma St 6021 235 4.64
Same as Jones but the upside may not be as high, but a solid all around player. under rated on the boards.

There is a "Report Post" button underneath everyone's avatar.
"We may have lost the game, but you'll be hurting tomorrow." Doug Atkins Sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought an idiot, than to open it and remove all doubt!!!!!

Last edited by hagan714; 03-26-2014 at 08:24 AM..
hagan714 is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules

LinkBacks (?)
LinkBack to this Thread: http://blackandgold.com/saints/62855-2014-nfl-draft.html
Posted By For Type Date Hits
2014 NFL Draft This thread Refback 12-15-2013 10:55 PM 21


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:10 PM.


Copyright 1997 - 2014 - BlackandGold.com
no new posts