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OFFENSE KEEPERS

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; OFFENSE KEEPERS QB's No one. This disaster isn't Brooks fault, but its time to move on, both for his own good and the Saints fan's. A good GM could work one of those trades that benefit both teams. RB's McAllister-Renegotiate ...

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Old 11-08-2004, 11:47 AM   #1
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OFFENSE KEEPERS

OFFENSE KEEPERS
QB's
No one. This disaster isn't Brooks fault, but its time to move on, both for his own good and the Saints fan's. A good GM could work one of those trades that benefit both teams.

RB's
McAllister-Renegotiate now while his value has dropped. Buy low, sell high! I'd still listen to any and all trade options though.
Karney-Bright spot. Solid FB for years to come.

WR's
Horn-ONLY if he re-negotiates, which he should, especially with the enthusiasm a new HC will bring. NO WAY I pay him Marvin Harrison type money. I don't care how scrappy or tough he is.
Pathon-Eases the sting of Donte's inconsistency. Salary is only a bit too high. If Horn leaves he's a must keep.
Stallworth-Loomis did a good job on his cap friendly 6-year contract. A good 3rd WR as is, or good trade-bait. I think he's been handcuffed by McCarthy, as have several players on the offense. Maybe a strong disciplinarian could make him a decent #1.
Henderson-Wish I could honestly say why, other than the investment of a #2 in him.

TE-Zack Hilton. I'd definitely keep him and see how he develops. I'd probably be OK with keeping Conwell and/or Boo if they respond well to the new staff.

O-Line
Bentley, Holland, Gandy are the only ones with a sure spot. All other players on this offense are replaceable with street FA's, including Stinchcomb. I do think a new staff could bring out the best of this bunch. They may also move Stinch inside.IMHO

2005 Offensive needs- this side of the ball is in so much better shape than the defense its encouraging. No real GLARING needs, except maybe RT.
I'd look at...
Young QB to develop
Veteran FA QB to replace Brooks while a youngster develops. Like a Kitna, Brees, Griese, Brad Johnson, Warner, Ramsey (if Gibbs truley just dislikes this kid).
RT-Vickey is history. I don't know a thing about Free Agent RT's but I do know Victoria will be one very soon. How can he go from decent to soooooo bad in just one season?



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Old 11-08-2004, 12:15 PM   #2
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\'\'no glaring needs\'?????...what games are you watching...what team are you talking about?...there isn\'t one position we are solid at right now...not one...we have two good plyaers on the whole team...we have needs allright...glaring so brightly they could scorch the earth
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Old 11-08-2004, 12:22 PM   #3
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\'\'no glaring needs\'?????...what games are you watching...what team are you talking about?...there isn\'t one position we are solid at right now...not one...we have two good plyaers on the whole team...we have needs allright...glaring so brightly they could scorch the earth
I\'ll agree on the Defense that there are glaring needs.
But on offense no.

I\'m also of the opinion that bad coaching is responsible for what is happening now.

You honestly don\'t think there\'s ONE position worth keeping?

If thats so then Haslett and company are doing a FANTASTIC job.

Sorry, I don\'t buy it.
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Old 11-08-2004, 12:23 PM   #4
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OFFENSE KEEPERS

OFFENSE KEEPERS
QB\'s
No one. This disaster isn\'t Brooks fault, but its time to move on, both for his own good and the Saints fan\'s. A good GM could work one of those trades that benefit both teams.

RB\'s
McAllister-Renegotiate now while his value has dropped. Buy low, sell high! I\'d still listen to any and all trade options though.
Karney-Bright spot. Solid FB for years to come.

WR\'s
Horn-ONLY if he re-negotiates, which he should, especially with the enthusiasm a new HC will bring. NO WAY I pay him Marvin Harrison type money. I don\'t care how scrappy or tough he is.
Pathon-Eases the sting of Donte\'s inconsistency. Salary is only a bit too high. If Horn leaves he\'s a must keep.
Stallworth-Loomis did a good job on his cap friendly 6-year contract. A good 3rd WR as is, or good trade-bait. I think he\'s been handcuffed by McCarthy, as have several players on the offense. Maybe a strong disciplinarian could make him a decent #1.
Henderson-Wish I could honestly say why, other than the investment of a #2 in him.

TE-Zack Hilton. I\'d definitely keep him and see how he develops. I\'d probably be OK with keeping Conwell and/or Boo if they respond well to the new staff.

O-Line
Bentley, Holland, Gandy are the only ones with a sure spot. All other players on this offense are replaceable with street FA\'s, including Stinchcomb. I do think a new staff could bring out the best of this bunch. They may also move Stinch inside.IMHO

2005 Offensive needs- this side of the ball is in so much better shape than the defense its encouraging. No real GLARING needs, except maybe RT.
I\'d look at...
Young QB to develop
Veteran FA QB to replace Brooks while a youngster develops. Like a Kitna, Brees, Griese, Brad Johnson, Warner, Ramsey (if Gibbs truley just dislikes this kid).
RT-Vickey is history. I don\'t know a thing about Free Agent RT\'s but I do know Victoria will be one very soon. How can he go from decent to soooooo bad in just one season?


Assessment by position

Quarterback

Trade/cut Brooks and Bouman. Acquire Brees and draft a talented backup.

Running Back

Negotiate a good deal for Deuce, keep Stecker, draft a middle round RB

Tight End

Trade Williams, keep Conwell, Hall, and Hilton.

Tackle

Trade/cut Riley & Gandy. Keep Folau. Use #1 pick for the best offensive tackle we can find or pick up the best FA tackle we can find.

Guards

Keep everyone

Center

Draft a center in late round

Wide Receiver

Trade Horn (age & injury prone) Introduce an offense that Henderson can understand. Make Pathon the #2 and Stallworth #3. Use draft pick to get a decent WR in upper rounds. Keep Michael Lewis as a return man and Special Teams guy. Trade Gardner for whatever the market will get us.

Defense

Trade Sullivan for whatever we can get or kick his behind bloody to make him understand he\'s a big boy now.

Trade Darren Howard (injury prone)
Trade/cut Allen, Hodge, Rodgers, Cie Grant. Keep Ruff and Watson.
Draft stud OLB or pick up Choice FA\'s

Backfield.

Trade/Cut Jones, Ambrose,
Develop Gleason and Mel Mitchell as Safeties.
Develop Brown/Craft/Thomas/McKenzie into a rotating unit.

My two cents


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Old 11-08-2004, 12:58 PM   #5
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In response to the top post.
How has Stallworth been handcuffed? HE CANNOT CATCH A FOOTBALL! That\'s all there is too it. A number 3 receiver needs to have sure hands, so to me he\'s worthless.
We cut Zach Hilton weeks ago, so discussing him is a mute point.
Our entire O-line is suspect at this point. Every single O-lineman played crappy in pass protection yesterday.
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Old 11-08-2004, 01:04 PM   #6
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Was that just a suggestion to make devery henderson our #1 WR????? :casstet:


Danno - I don\'t know that I think our problems are at the skill positions.

Deuce is a must keep. Unless you\'re getting a top 20 NFL player in return, there simply isn\'t a deal IMO that will be worth it. A zone blocking scheme and a passing attack that sets up the run and Deuce is a 2000 yard back. You gotta keep him. Stecker is a good backup and I think he should be used more regularly in the offense.

I can understand wanting to rework Horn\'s contract, but I also think the guys is solid. A steady top-10 performer who is a gamer and gives this team an attitude. You gotta keep him, IMO, especially when there\'s a change. Despite his mouth, Horn is a consistent part of our team, and that\'s good when everything else is in turmoil. Plus, we don\'t have another WR playing at even a #2 WR level right now. We need some help here... again.

Brooks/Bouman - both probably have to go. Bouman didn\'t get the chance I\'m guessing he was promised. Brooks just isn\'t the long-term solution, and given the history here, I doubt he can succeed in NO.

To me, our problems on O start with the scheme and play calling. They are followed up by poor line play, and inconsistent TEs. Most importantly, this team is simply in chaos. The players could play much better with good coaching, IMO. But some upgrades along the line are probably necessary. A consistent QB and a better scheme would help too.

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he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"
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Old 11-08-2004, 01:11 PM   #7
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In response to the top post.
How has Stallworth been handcuffed? HE CANNOT CATCH A FOOTBALL! That\'s all there is too it.
He\'s got fewer drops than Horn. He is the fastest (official) player in the NFL. How many deep balls are thrown his way? How many WR screens? End arounds? Oh yeah we tried the end around once and it looked like the slowest developing play I\'ve witnessed since the triple-reverse we tried in intra-mural flag football.

We cut Zach Hilton weeks ago, so discussing him is a mute point.
He cleared waivers and we re-signed him to the PS.

Our entire O-line is suspect at this point. Every single O-lineman played crappy in pass protection yesterday.
So you\'d cut an all-pro Bentley? A 2nd year OG with tons of potential? A proven LT thats having a down year?
I think thats a bit of an over-reaction don\'t you?
If you think thats bad, replace them with 9 street free-agents and see what you get.

This whole team has played \"crappy\" all year. Do you think it might have more to do with coaching than anything else? You could give this staff the entire Patriots team and within 2 years we\'re back to 8-8.

'Tolerance And Apathy Are The Last Virtues Of A Dying Society'
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Old 11-08-2004, 01:17 PM   #8
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Time to play the reserves -- we know what our starters are doing -- lets see what we have to work with -- only then can we really make a decision of who goes and stays. We cannot trade or cut the whole team.
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Old 11-08-2004, 01:30 PM   #9
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I\'m also of the opinion that bad coaching is responsible for what is happening now.

You honestly don\'t think there\'s ONE position worth keeping?

If thats so then Haslett and company are doing a FANTASTIC job.
I\'m so with you on this statement. It\'s either one or the other, but it can\'t be both, people. Either we are completely void of talent on this team and the coaching has done an excellent job (which I doubt), or we have plenty of talent, but the coaching is washed up. So which is it?
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Old 11-08-2004, 03:21 PM   #10
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Danno makes a few good points, but you totally lost me on some of the things you are talking about...

Brooks might not be to blame, but we should get rid of him anyway? We might not be able to pick up anything better unless we benched him for say a Drew Brees or someone who wants to come in and compete for the job... Brooks is under contract and no one will want to pick that up so why not keep him for another year we got the cap room to keep even him as an overpaid backup... Who can we bring in to get us going? Brees and Kitna come to mind as a quick fix. At least to make things interesting...

Deuce would not want to renegotiate right now cause he knows he has had a bad season, but he still knows that he is a top 10 if not top 5 back in the league... Listening to offers for him would be stupid since he is the only sure fire solid player we have...Stecker is a solid backup and drafting a RB late might not be a bad idea, but they will have a few solid FAs out there to look at...

Joe Horn is over rated in my opinion. Best WR we have yes, but name one guy on our team who could start somewhere? Horn is not a #1 WR like we need... He is a solid guy but he is controversal and wants big money... Honestly I dont think he is worth it unless he decideds to start playing better football. He has dropped to many passes this year. Not to mention he is 32 will be 33 at the start of next season. How many good years can he have left? He should not get a big contract!

As for the other WRs the only person who seems to be able to catch consistently is Pathon and if it came down to Horn or Pathon I would rather keep Pathon who is younger and not as expensive. I will prolly get blasted for that, but like I said before my opinion. He is a professional just plays and shuts up.

Stallworth needs to be developed. Someone should be working on the kids hands. Same with Henderson if he has all the other skills...

Lewis is a solid return man? He is aging and he hasnt broken one in two years.

Lewis return stats:
\'02 14.2 yards per punt return; 25.8 yards per kick return. 3TDs
\'03 9.16 yards per punt return; 23.73 yards per kick return. 0TDs
\'04 10.35 yards per punt return; 22.45 yards per kick return. 0TDs
Notice a trend???

OL- Keep Gandy?!? He is having an off year? Dont get down on him for 1 off year... when an OLman has an off year it is usually the end of the road... He is old and not gonna bounce back to someone we can rely on for years to come. 33 years old and playing bad... I dont think we can keep him around. If we are going to rebuild we should rebuild not keep an old foundation that we will have to fix in a year or two.

Bently yes we deffinantly keep him. Holland has potential yes and maybe a new coaching staff can get it out of him, but Sullivain has potential at DL and noone is talking about keeping him... Holland needs to do sumthing to show me he deserves to be kept. As for Stinchcomb... wasnt he drafted higher than Montrae Holland? So I wouldnt be so fast to write him off either.

As for TE if we are gonna run we need to get a blocking TE. If we are gonna pass we need a TE with hands. Boo has dropped way to many passes to keep his position and Conwell drops passes, doesnt block so well and commits enough mistakes to cost us a close game all by his self. Hilton might be someone we can develope, but developing our talent hasnt been a strong point.

One thing you left out that I have a problem with is our kicker. I know he is consistent, but I was upset when we let go of a strong legged young kicker(Shayne Graham) in favor of Doug Brien and since then we havent really had anything to brag about. Carney is good yes, but he is 40? how long you think he will play? He isnt gonna get any better and if anything he will lose some leg strength. Shayne Graham by the way isnt doing so bad in Cincinati...

Once again just my opinion and willing to discuss my views with anyone... thats what this forum is for right? So go ahead and blast away on me I know you guys will have fun picking me apart...
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