Roman Harper, Zach Strief among New Orleans Saints players who might be elsewhere next season

Danno · 01-22-2014, 07:48 PM

Losing Streif would be bad. Above average tackles are not easy to find are are very expensive.
You don't just let good players go year after year and stay competitive.
I hope we resign him but if not I think Harris may step in ok.

burningmetal · 01-22-2014, 08:19 PM

Everywhere I look someone is trying to make our tackles sound respectable. I'm waiting for the first example of why they deserve the benefit of the doubt.

Strief might be serviceable by the average NFL tackle, counting all of the bench players in the league. But as a starter on a team that expects to contend, he is not a viable option. Brown, on the other hand, is not serviceable by any standards. Watch film, look at stats, grades, etc. Then tell me why I should miss either one of these guys if they go. Same goes for De La Puenta.

Boutte · 01-22-2014, 08:53 PM

Watch film, yeah. All that other crap is useless. Watch Strief then watch the other tackles around the league. Strief is legitimate starting tackle and I feel confident in him.

Utah_Saint · 01-22-2014, 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

...Watch film, look at stats, grades, etc. Then tell me why I should miss either one of these guys if they go. Same goes for De La Puenta.

OK

ProFootballFocus graded Zach Strief as the 7th best tackle overall and the best right tackle in the league for the 2013 season. He ranked 7th out of 128 tackles graded. In 1062 snaps, he gave up 3 sacks, 4 hits and 26 hurries. They scored his run blocking as average -.1, his screen blocking as just below that -.5, but his pass blocking was exceptional at 21.7, third best in the league behind Joe Thomas and Trent Williams.

De la Puente graded slightly above average with a positive 4.0. He was ranked 16th out of the 64 centers graded. He had positive grades in pass blocking at 2.7 and screen blocking at 1.5. He received negative marks for run blocking, -3.7 and was one of the least penalized centers in the league.

As far as Brown goes, I can't help you, PFF gave him a pretty bad grade. His pass blocking was terrible, ranking 122 out of 128 tackles graded.

rezburna · 01-22-2014, 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by Utah_Saint

OK

ProFootballFocus graded Zach Strief as the 7th best tackle overall and the best right tackle in the league for the 2013 season. He ranked 7th out of 128 tackles graded. In 1062 snaps, he gave up 3 sacks, 4 hits and 26 hurries. They scored his run blocking as average -.1, his screen blocking as just below that -.5, but his pass blocking was exceptional at 21.7, third best in the league behind Joe Thomas and Trent Williams.

De la Puente graded slightly above average with a positive 4.0. He was ranked 16th out of the 64 centers graded. He had positive grades in pass blocking at 2.7 and screen blocking at 1.5. He received negative marks for run blocking, -3.7 and was one of the least penalized centers in the league.

As far as Brown goes, I can't help you, PFF gave him a pretty bad grade. His pass blocking was terrible, ranking 122 out of 128 tackles graded.

Find out who allowed the most hurries on the team if you don't mind my good man.

Utah_Saint · 01-22-2014, 09:28 PM

Originally Posted by rezburna

Find out who allowed the most hurries on the team if you don't mind my good man.

Of course, my friend...

The tackles,

Strief - 3 sacks, 4 hits and 26 hurries, (1062 snaps)
Brown - 7 sacks 9 hits and 33 hurries, (974 snaps)
Armstead - 3 sacks, 1 hit and 3 hurries (141 snaps)
Harris - 1 sack, 3 hits, and 7 hurries (246 snaps)

The guards,

Grubbs - 3 sacks, 5 hits, 20 hurries (1154 snaps)
Evans - 2 sacks, 4 hits, 12 hurries (999 snaps)
Lelito - 4 sacks, 0 hits, 5 hurries (162)

The Center

De La Puente - 3, sacks, 3, hits, 9 hurries (1154 snaps)

Jack Vegas · 01-22-2014, 09:33 PM

Originally Posted by Ashley

And I thought that I was the only one on here that didn't care for his service

You are both incorrect. People that dog Strief don't know football, period. he's a good player at his position and we would be stupid to let him go if his contract demands are reasonable. Now right tackle is not the most high-paid job, but he's worth 3 to 3.5 million a year. As I recall that was about was Stinchcomb was making on his last contract and Strief has played at roughly the same level.

If we don't pay it, there are at least 15 teams in the league that would be happy to steal him away.

burningmetal · 01-22-2014, 11:16 PM

Originally Posted by Utah_Saint

OK

ProFootballFocus graded Zach Strief as the 7th best tackle overall and the best right tackle in the league for the 2013 season. He ranked 7th out of 128 tackles graded. In 1062 snaps, he gave up 3 sacks, 4 hits and 26 hurries. They scored his run blocking as average -.1, his screen blocking as just below that -.5, but his pass blocking was exceptional at 21.7, third best in the league behind Joe Thomas and Trent Williams.

De la Puente graded slightly above average with a positive 4.0. He was ranked 16th out of the 64 centers graded. He had positive grades in pass blocking at 2.7 and screen blocking at 1.5. He received negative marks for run blocking, -3.7 and was one of the least penalized centers in the league.

As far as Brown goes, I can't help you, PFF gave him a pretty bad grade. His pass blocking was terrible, ranking 122 out of 128 tackles graded.

I can't tell you how much I don't care about pro football focus. I'd much rather see an actual scout's grade. But thanks for making the effort unlike most people who just say "he's good cause this guy or that guy said so". Just looking at those stats, 26 hurries is a lot. It's not all about how many sacks you give up. Right tackle is by far the easiest of the two tackle positions. Drew ran for his life all season long, and why do we suppose that is? And how many holding calls did both of our tackles get? A lot. They could not give drew any time when we played any kind of decent defensive line.

How does anyone watch this team and how far the offense dropped, and turn around and defend this offensive line. People need to get off their googled metrics scaling BS and get back to watching the game. We all saw what happened out there, and it was not pretty.

This team for years has had to devise blocking schemes to mask deficiencies at tackle and run a ton of screens (to the point of becoming predictable at times) to slow down the rush a little. Those things never show up in stat sheets.

I think we keep Strief simply because we can't replace two tackles at the same time. Armstead may or may not round into form, but in the meantime Brown has to go. So for the time being I expect Strief to stay. I'm just going by what I'd like to see, and I'd like to see a lot of upgrading on the line. I am well aware of the fact that not much is likely to change.

Cruize · 01-22-2014, 11:30 PM

1 - OT Moses
2 - FS Reynolds
3 - CB McGill
4 - WR Janis
5 - C Larsen
6 - TE Lynch

UDFA's - RB Cobb, OLB Fields, CB Evans, S Perry, FB Agnew, OG Morrell, WR Coles, C Allen, OT Feiler.

Jack Vegas · 01-23-2014, 12:38 AM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

I can't tell you how much I don't care about pro football focus. I'd much rather see an actual scout's grade. But thanks for making the effort unlike most people who just say "he's good cause this guy or that guy said so". Just looking at those stats, 26 hurries is a lot. It's not all about how many sacks you give up. Right tackle is by far the easiest of the two tackle positions. Drew ran for his life all season long, and why do we suppose that is? And how many holding calls did both of our tackles get? A lot. They could not give drew any time when we played any kind of decent defensive line.

How does anyone watch this team and how far the offense dropped, and turn around and defend this offensive line. People need to get off their googled metrics scaling BS and get back to watching the game. We all saw what happened out there, and it was not pretty.

This team for years has had to devise blocking schemes to mask deficiencies at tackle and run a ton of screens (to the point of becoming predictable at times) to slow down the rush a little. Those things never show up in stat sheets.

I think we keep Strief simply because we can't replace two tackles at the same time. Armstead may or may not round into form, but in the meantime Brown has to go. So for the time being I expect Strief to stay. I'm just going by what I'd like to see, and I'd like to see a lot of upgrading on the line. I am well aware of the fact that not much is likely to change.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...-all-pro-team/

Last week the Associated Press announced their annual All-Pro team, and after a long season it’s time we do the same.

What makes our a little different is what we have to work with. At Pro Football Focus we have four people watching every game. Two collecting player participation data, one running through analysis with broadcast footage and another using the fantastic All-22 footage provided by Game Rewind to run the rule over that. Contentious plays go to our arbitration process and all told we’ve spent roughly 30 hours on each game.

Right Tackle: Phil Loadholt (MIN)
It wasn’t a great year for right tackles, especially with Sebastian Vollmer going down. That left us with a selection that was essentially two from three. With the team agreed that what Loadholt brings in the run game should get him the first team nod, it was left between Strief and Demar Dotson, with Strief edging the votes for his sheer consistency.
Second Team: Zach Strief (NO)

So tell me, did you spend 30 hours watching every game with a 4-person panel to come up with a consensus on anybody's play? No? I didn't think so.

How about you find some credible evidence that says Strief is as subpar as you believe?

01-22-2014, 07:48 PM	#11
Danno Site Donor 2014 Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,640	Re: Roman Harper, Zach Strief among New Orleans Saints players who might be elsewhere next season Losing Streif would be bad. Above average tackles are not easy to find are are very expensive. You don't just let good players go year after year and stay competitive. I hope we resign him but if not I think Harris may step in ok. Boutte and Utah_Saint like this.

01-22-2014, 08:19 PM	#12
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,905 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Roman Harper, Zach Strief among New Orleans Saints players who might be elsewhere next season Everywhere I look someone is trying to make our tackles sound respectable. I'm waiting for the first example of why they deserve the benefit of the doubt. Strief might be serviceable by the average NFL tackle, counting all of the bench players in the league. But as a starter on a team that expects to contend, he is not a viable option. Brown, on the other hand, is not serviceable by any standards. Watch film, look at stats, grades, etc. Then tell me why I should miss either one of these guys if they go. Same goes for De La Puenta. Rugby Saint II likes this.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

01-22-2014, 08:53 PM	#13
Boutte Site Donor Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belle Chasse Posts: 1,701	Re: Roman Harper, Zach Strief among New Orleans Saints players who might be elsewhere next season Watch film, yeah. All that other crap is useless. Watch Strief then watch the other tackles around the league. Strief is legitimate starting tackle and I feel confident in him.

01-22-2014, 08:53 PM	#14
Utah_Saint Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 3,521	Re: Roman Harper, Zach Strief among New Orleans Saints players who might be elsewhere next season Originally Posted by burningmetal ...Watch film, look at stats, grades, etc. Then tell me why I should miss either one of these guys if they go. Same goes for De La Puenta. OK ProFootballFocus graded Zach Strief as the 7th best tackle overall and the best right tackle in the league for the 2013 season. He ranked 7th out of 128 tackles graded. In 1062 snaps, he gave up 3 sacks, 4 hits and 26 hurries. They scored his run blocking as average -.1, his screen blocking as just below that -.5, but his pass blocking was exceptional at 21.7, third best in the league behind Joe Thomas and Trent Williams. De la Puente graded slightly above average with a positive 4.0. He was ranked 16th out of the 64 centers graded. He had positive grades in pass blocking at 2.7 and screen blocking at 1.5. He received negative marks for run blocking, -3.7 and was one of the least penalized centers in the league. As far as Brown goes, I can't help you, PFF gave him a pretty bad grade. His pass blocking was terrible, ranking 122 out of 128 tackles graded. Danno and Boutte like this.

01-22-2014, 09:11 PM	#15
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 7,650	Re: Roman Harper, Zach Strief among New Orleans Saints players who might be elsewhere next season Originally Posted by Utah_Saint OK ProFootballFocus graded Zach Strief as the 7th best tackle overall and the best right tackle in the league for the 2013 season. He ranked 7th out of 128 tackles graded. In 1062 snaps, he gave up 3 sacks, 4 hits and 26 hurries. They scored his run blocking as average -.1, his screen blocking as just below that -.5, but his pass blocking was exceptional at 21.7, third best in the league behind Joe Thomas and Trent Williams. De la Puente graded slightly above average with a positive 4.0. He was ranked 16th out of the 64 centers graded. He had positive grades in pass blocking at 2.7 and screen blocking at 1.5. He received negative marks for run blocking, -3.7 and was one of the least penalized centers in the league. As far as Brown goes, I can't help you, PFF gave him a pretty bad grade. His pass blocking was terrible, ranking 122 out of 128 tackles graded. Find out who allowed the most hurries on the team if you don't mind my good man.

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01-22-2014, 09:28 PM	#16
Utah_Saint Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 3,521	Re: Roman Harper, Zach Strief among New Orleans Saints players who might be elsewhere next season Originally Posted by rezburna Find out who allowed the most hurries on the team if you don't mind my good man. Of course, my friend... The tackles, Strief - 3 sacks, 4 hits and 26 hurries, (1062 snaps) Brown - 7 sacks 9 hits and 33 hurries, (974 snaps) Armstead - 3 sacks, 1 hit and 3 hurries (141 snaps) Harris - 1 sack, 3 hits, and 7 hurries (246 snaps) The guards, Grubbs - 3 sacks, 5 hits, 20 hurries (1154 snaps) Evans - 2 sacks, 4 hits, 12 hurries (999 snaps) Lelito - 4 sacks, 0 hits, 5 hurries (162) The Center De La Puente - 3, sacks, 3, hits, 9 hurries (1154 snaps) Danno likes this.

01-22-2014, 09:33 PM	#17
Jack Vegas 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,254	Re: Roman Harper, Zach Strief among New Orleans Saints players who might be elsewhere next season Originally Posted by Ashley And I thought that I was the only one on here that didn't care for his service You are both incorrect. People that dog Strief don't know football, period. he's a good player at his position and we would be stupid to let him go if his contract demands are reasonable. Now right tackle is not the most high-paid job, but he's worth 3 to 3.5 million a year. As I recall that was about was Stinchcomb was making on his last contract and Strief has played at roughly the same level. If we don't pay it, there are at least 15 teams in the league that would be happy to steal him away. Danno, Boutte and Utah_Saint like this.
Jack Vegas 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,254

01-22-2014, 11:16 PM	#18
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,905 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Roman Harper, Zach Strief among New Orleans Saints players who might be elsewhere next season Originally Posted by Utah_Saint OK ProFootballFocus graded Zach Strief as the 7th best tackle overall and the best right tackle in the league for the 2013 season. He ranked 7th out of 128 tackles graded. In 1062 snaps, he gave up 3 sacks, 4 hits and 26 hurries. They scored his run blocking as average -.1, his screen blocking as just below that -.5, but his pass blocking was exceptional at 21.7, third best in the league behind Joe Thomas and Trent Williams. De la Puente graded slightly above average with a positive 4.0. He was ranked 16th out of the 64 centers graded. He had positive grades in pass blocking at 2.7 and screen blocking at 1.5. He received negative marks for run blocking, -3.7 and was one of the least penalized centers in the league. As far as Brown goes, I can't help you, PFF gave him a pretty bad grade. His pass blocking was terrible, ranking 122 out of 128 tackles graded. I can't tell you how much I don't care about pro football focus. I'd much rather see an actual scout's grade. But thanks for making the effort unlike most people who just say "he's good cause this guy or that guy said so". Just looking at those stats, 26 hurries is a lot. It's not all about how many sacks you give up. Right tackle is by far the easiest of the two tackle positions. Drew ran for his life all season long, and why do we suppose that is? And how many holding calls did both of our tackles get? A lot. They could not give drew any time when we played any kind of decent defensive line. How does anyone watch this team and how far the offense dropped, and turn around and defend this offensive line. People need to get off their googled metrics scaling BS and get back to watching the game. We all saw what happened out there, and it was not pretty. This team for years has had to devise blocking schemes to mask deficiencies at tackle and run a ton of screens (to the point of becoming predictable at times) to slow down the rush a little. Those things never show up in stat sheets. I think we keep Strief simply because we can't replace two tackles at the same time. Armstead may or may not round into form, but in the meantime Brown has to go. So for the time being I expect Strief to stay. I'm just going by what I'd like to see, and I'd like to see a lot of upgrading on the line. I am well aware of the fact that not much is likely to change.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

01-22-2014, 11:30 PM	#19
Cruize 1000 Posts + Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 4,294	Re: Roman Harper, Zach Strief among New Orleans Saints players who might be elsewhere next season 1 - OT Moses 2 - FS Reynolds 3 - CB McGill 4 - WR Janis 5 - C Larsen 6 - TE Lynch UDFA's - RB Cobb, OLB Fields, CB Evans, S Perry, FB Agnew, OG Morrell, WR Coles, C Allen, OT Feiler.
Cruize 1000 Posts + Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 4,294

01-23-2014, 12:38 AM	#20
Jack Vegas 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,254	Re: Roman Harper, Zach Strief among New Orleans Saints players who might be elsewhere next season Originally Posted by burningmetal I can't tell you how much I don't care about pro football focus. I'd much rather see an actual scout's grade. But thanks for making the effort unlike most people who just say "he's good cause this guy or that guy said so". Just looking at those stats, 26 hurries is a lot. It's not all about how many sacks you give up. Right tackle is by far the easiest of the two tackle positions. Drew ran for his life all season long, and why do we suppose that is? And how many holding calls did both of our tackles get? A lot. They could not give drew any time when we played any kind of decent defensive line. How does anyone watch this team and how far the offense dropped, and turn around and defend this offensive line. People need to get off their googled metrics scaling BS and get back to watching the game. We all saw what happened out there, and it was not pretty. This team for years has had to devise blocking schemes to mask deficiencies at tackle and run a ton of screens (to the point of becoming predictable at times) to slow down the rush a little. Those things never show up in stat sheets. I think we keep Strief simply because we can't replace two tackles at the same time. Armstead may or may not round into form, but in the meantime Brown has to go. So for the time being I expect Strief to stay. I'm just going by what I'd like to see, and I'd like to see a lot of upgrading on the line. I am well aware of the fact that not much is likely to change. https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...-all-pro-team/ Last week the Associated Press announced their annual All-Pro team, and after a long season it’s time we do the same. What makes our a little different is what we have to work with. At Pro Football Focus we have four people watching every game. Two collecting player participation data, one running through analysis with broadcast footage and another using the fantastic All-22 footage provided by Game Rewind to run the rule over that. Contentious plays go to our arbitration process and all told we’ve spent roughly 30 hours on each game. Right Tackle: Phil Loadholt (MIN) It wasn’t a great year for right tackles, especially with Sebastian Vollmer going down. That left us with a selection that was essentially two from three. With the team agreed that what Loadholt brings in the run game should get him the first team nod, it was left between Strief and Demar Dotson, with Strief edging the votes for his sheer consistency. Second Team: Zach Strief (NO) So tell me, did you spend 30 hours watching every game with a 4-person panel to come up with a consensus on anybody's play? No? I didn't think so. How about you find some credible evidence that says Strief is as subpar as you believe? Danno and TheOak like this.
Jack Vegas 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,254

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