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Overhaul- One fans GM perspective

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; That\'s fine, and I don\'t disagree with you at all. Horn\'s contract could stand to be restructured, but HE isn\'t demanding anything. Likewise, say what you will, but the guy has been worth every cent we\'ve paid him over the ...

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Old 11-10-2004, 09:54 AM   #11
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Overhaul- One fans GM perspective

That\'s fine, and I don\'t disagree with you at all. Horn\'s contract could stand to be restructured, but HE isn\'t demanding anything. Likewise, say what you will, but the guy has been worth every cent we\'ve paid him over the last 4.5 seasons, and as far as I can tell that hasn\'t come close to averaging out anywhere near top 5 money. Now, when he\'s finally due a payday, all the fans want to stiff him and leave him out on the street.

What frustrates me about people here seems to be the inconsistency. I\'ve often heard people on this board ream players for demanding more money and especially for holding out. Everybody runs in and talks about honoring contracts. You signed the deal, not live up to it everyone screams. However, many supported paying a total unproven top 5 QB money, and now a top 5 or 10 WR who has been getting paid a lot less than top 5 money and doing so without complaining for the last 4.5 seasons is due to have ONE season where he\'s paid top five money and everybody scoffs. What happened to all that honoring contracts stuff? In the last two seasons Joe Horn made 1.6 million in salary and probably no more than 5 mil. in all bonuses. AB makes 6 mil. a season. How can you guys be complaining about Joe? I just don\'t get it. If you think the Saints should restructure Horn\'s contract, I don\'t necessarily disagree... but IMO, Horn is one of the most valuable players on this team right now and if that means you have to pay him what you promised him to keep him, do it. Just my opinion.

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Old 11-10-2004, 11:27 AM   #12
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Overhaul- One fans GM perspective

Lets make a deal. WE are going car shopping. When you see this car (Aaron Brooks) you are interested and I give you an amazing deal on it. (So you think.) You take it for a test drive and it performs so well that you think it is the best car you have EVER had (his first seasons with us). So you want to do everything you can to keep it running for the long haul. The only thing is after its first year it needs a major tune up(Contract!) and from its past performance and promissing looking future you spend a ton of money to tune it up. However, the car never performs quite the same and you feel cheated and ripped off. You can\'t return it cause after it has been driven around town the value has tremendously dropped. Noone is gonna pay you what you have already invested in the car. So you have to keep the car performing like it is until its cheap enough to get rid of. I didnt like the Brooks deal, but a starting QB needed a better contract than what he had. Did we over pay it certainly, but nothing we can do now.

Lets look back to when we bought this other used car(Joe Horn). We got a good deal on it and it has been the best car we have had. We have already gotten a tune up for this car (Contract extension last year). Now next year the car is gonna need another tune up and a major one (some 5 million dollar contract). Should we take the chance to keep this old model car performing like it has? Sure, but we gotta know that pretty soon this car will have to be let go no matter how we like it. We can look to find another gem used car or buy a new one and take care of it. When you have an aging car you do not keep dumping tons of money into it to keep it running you save up and get a new one who comes cheaper and might perform for a few years before you have to give it a tune up.

I know players arent like cars, but you get the idea. If you see great promising performances you want to make that a constant for years to come. You get a little ahead of yourself and over pay, but its to late now and you have to just suck it up and deal with it. Horn deserves his current contract, but when it is up we will have to see what he wants. I hate the fact that AB has a giant contract but its not like he is going to restructure the deal for less money and less years. He is geting paid top bucks for the next 2-3 years. Why would he want to change the contract? We dont want to extend it. SO unless we can restructure the deal to make him easier to cut or trade we are stuck with him. I think he is better than what is out there right now, but if we can land a Drew Brees in the offseason then Brooks might be on his way out. We cant afford to keep him as a back up. However, keep Brooks unless we have a proven fall back plan. I wouldn\'t want to give Brees a giant contract cause he has only had a half of a solid year. However, if we want him we will have to pay high price and hope he performs well for the long run unlike the last car we bought at top dollar value.

[Edited on 10/11/2004 by SycoSurfer]
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Old 11-10-2004, 12:03 PM   #13
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I just don\'t agree with your logic. The difference between your analogy and actual events seems pretty clear to me. In any case, what do you suggest? Cut Horn? He\'s under contract already. If we don\'t want to pay him, others won\'t either. So you cut Horn? Then what? Who do you think the Saints are going to sign that is proven at his level and will cost less than $5 mil next season when you factor in a signing bonus and salary?

Essentially, this is no different than saying cut Brooks. Sure Bouman isn\'t the answer and I don\'t even know who our 3rd string QB is, but I\'m sure we can find somebody for less money. Sure you can, but can you find a guy at the same level for less? I dunno. WIth AB, probably. With Horn, I doubt it. Unless you find another gem, and the Saints have proven to be far less capable of that then we all originally thought.

\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse


\"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\"
he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"
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Old 11-10-2004, 12:26 PM   #14
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Overhaul- One fans GM perspective

Who I think you\'re off base on this one. Horn is due for some real money next season. Coupled with 2 seasons of injury trouble, I\'m not sure it\'s a good move to keep him, even though he has been the most consistent guy for 3+ years now.
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Old 11-10-2004, 12:39 PM   #15
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Overhaul- One fans GM perspective

With Horn, I doubt it. Unless you find another gem, and the Saints have proven to be far less capable of that then we all originally thought.
Well this is a mute point since the thing to do is bring in a real GM and let him decide whether Horn is worth keeping around for that kind of money.

I don\'t think anyone wants to cut him but I doubt he\'d make that kinda money elsewhere so its probably in his best interest to re-negotiate. If he doesn\'t re-negotiate then yes, cut him. I think a good GM could easily find a quality replacement for 5 million dollars.
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Old 11-10-2004, 05:33 PM   #16
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Overhaul- One fans GM perspective

I think you miss the point Who. I think Horn deserves his current contract which will be good through next year. Will he get it? Im not the one making the call. He deserves the big money, but ppl dont always get what they deserve. However, if in 2006 he wants a big contract at 35 yrs old I think we really have to let him go and look elsewhere. I would not cut Horn, but if we all want to keep him through out the end of his career we need to work sumthing out that keeps him for a reasonable price. You never want to over pay an aging player cause you never know how long they will stay productive.

Cut Horn? NO but he will want his current high price contract for next year. Renegotiating now would be sumthing if we wanted to keep him for say 3 more years not just next year because he will not renegotiate a contract that will pay him the money he should have been getting the last 2-3 years. So its up to a GM to decide if we want to get Horn for 2-3 more years at a decent price or let him go after next year. Horn will not be a cheap WR for anyone and if he goes FA no telling what could happen. Maybe give him another signing bonus or a roster bonus and see if we can keep him for 3 more years... just a thought.
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