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SycoSurfer 11-09-2004 12:04 PM

Overhaul- One fans GM perspective
I am just a fan and Im at home bored on my day off so here is my attempt at playing GM...This will be a position by position break down of what we have to work with and what I think we should do for next year.


QB-Aaron Brooks- 28 yrs old- I think a lot of people forget how bad a young QB can be. I know AB hasn’t been the greatest QB, but he has still played a lot better than plenty of QBs in the league. I would definitely start looking for a young QB to develop or a veteran who can come in and challenge AB for his job. His contract is to big to (move more than likely) and besides who wants a QB who has consistently been inconsistent. I think he can get the job done for now, but he is not by any means safe.

QB-Todd Bauman- 32 yrs old- He has never been given much of a shot to prove his worth. However, he is an aging unproven backup QB. What that means is if AB goes down we don’t know what we will get out of him. It is always nice to have a backup with experience and a young QB who is getting developed. We have neither. I think Bauman is gone and we bring in a proven veteran in his late 20s early 30s and a young QB to develop.

RB-Deuce McAllister- 25 yrs old- The bright spot on this team, he is a solid proven feature back in the prime of his career. He is good for 1500 yards and 500 rec. yards if he gets blocking. That has yet to be seen this year. However, he is what we should build around if anything.

RB-Aaron Stecker- 28 yrs old- I was surprised by how well he played when Deuce was out. He is definitely better than I was expecting. He is a good backup to have and with his return ability if needed he can help out on special teams. He is a valuable asset to the team and I hope he stays around a few years.

RB-Ki-Jana Carter- 31 yrs old- While he has been a great story battling back from injury and what not a 31 yr old back up who constantly gets cut to make room for someone else who is more needed pretty much shows you how much we care about him. It is always nice to have that safety net emergency backup who knows the system and no one else will pick up. Carter might not be on the team at the start of next year, but he might make a few appearances. I think we should look for a late round backup or a young FA to bring in and get learning the system. Deuce will not be replaced anytime soon, but it is never a bad idea to have an extra back that can get it done.

RB- Fred McAfee- 36 yrs old- Special teams ace yes and I love the guy. However, at 36 he is on his last leg. I am glad we brought him back this year we needed the spark. He has played great, but how many years does he have left?

FB-Mike Karney- 23 yrs old- Here is the other bright spot in this backfield. I don’t need to tell anyone about this guy. He has played as good as a rookie FB can play. He blocks great and plays hard. He can only get better and at 23 hopefully he gets a lot better here.

WR-Joe Horn- 32 yrs old- I don’t see us giving him a big contract. I know he has been the best WR we have had the last 3-4 years, but at 32 if we give him a big contract I think we regret that. If anything maybe a 3 year contract, but not for the kind of money he wants. I think he needs to realize there are not a lot of great 35 year old wide outs in the league. Joe might be an exception, but I don’t think we can afford to find out. We do have the cap room so we will probably give him the deal. I just don’t know if it will be worth it in the long run. He probably stays, but we need to find out what our youngster are worth.

WR-Donte’ Stallworth- 23 yrs old- At 23 he is not a bust, but he sure is a disappointment. I mean we did draft him in the first round and have yet to see consistent returns from this kid. He spoils us with 8 TDs his rookie year, but has yet to show us that promise again. Injuries have slowed his progress, but he hasn’t injured his hands has he? So, why so many drops? He really needs to work on that.

WR-Jerome Pathon- 28 yrs old- Pathon is a solid #2-3 man. He has been the only guy consistently catching balls this year. I know he has had a few drops, but less than anyone else on the team and 4 years younger than Joe Horn and not demanding a big contract I say he stays around at least 1-2 more years.

WR-Michael Lewis- 32 yrs old- He never could catch the ball so well. Now with his return numbers dropping. I think it is only a matter of time before he is out of here. While he was a good story he probably should start checking the papers for a delivery job.

WR-Talman Gardner- 24 yrs old- A young wide out who has yet to prove himself in the pros, but with our lackluster pass offense who knows what this kid is made of. We have had to much depth for him to get a chance to show us anything. Maybe with Horn and Lewis gone he shows us he is a solid #3-4 guy.

WR-Devery Henderson- 22 yrs old- All the talent and no results. Sound familiar? Henderson and Stallworth need to get together and work their asses off. If either of these 2 develop like they have the potential to we could have an amazing 1-2 punch with the speed they posses. That would make the departure of Horn an easier pill to swallow. Pathon at a #3 position and Gardner showing us what he has at the 4th spot. Might not be so bad.

TE-Boo Williams- 25 yrs old- He showed us everything we wanted out of him and still has room to learn. He was an undrafted FA WR who is now starting for us at TE. We can not expect the blocking to just happen. He needs to work at it and we need to be patient. However, if we had another decent TE who knew how to block it might not be so painful to watch.

TE-Ernie Conwell- 32 yrs old- He has never given us what we hoped for. At least I was expecting more. He makes his usual 2 mistakes a game and drops passes on a regular basis, but catches those 2 TDs a year and expects that to make up for everything. I am not satisfied and I think he is out the door. We can find someone else who can’t block and drop passes can’t we? Developing Zach Hilton would be ideal.

TE-Lamont Hall- 29 yrs old- He is back for a reason. He can block. We don’t need another TE who can’t. He has proven time and time again that he isn’t a great TE, but a solid backup who can get the job done. He will even occasionally sneak out and catch a pass or two.

LT-Wayne Gandy- 33 yrs old- Old, slow, and not playing so well… I think that says a lot. If he is under a big contract then he shouldn’t be. I mean Brooks has had no time to drop back and read the field and that kind of limits a passing attack. Stinchcomb is on the bench waiting for some playing time and I think if Gandy doesn’t play better soon we give it to him.

LT-Jon Stinchcomb- 25 yrs old- He was a 2nd round draft pick. Most 2nd round OL men are starting. OL do not need a lot of time to develop. It is the same basic concept they been using since Pee Wee Leauge get in front of the guy and push him. I understand he is behind a veteran, but if the veteran is playing as bad as Gandy is playing give the youngster a shot.

LG-Kendyl Jacox- 29 yrs old- Didn’t Jacox make the Pro Bowl as an alternate a year or two ago? What happened since then? I’m guessing he gained about 20 pounds and slowed a step. At least that’s what it looks like. I think we should have a young guy in to push him back into shape or replace him.

C-LeCharles Bentley- 25 yrs old- Bentley might be a person who could replace Jacox. Bentley is a great interior lineman, but he was a lot better at Guard. I think if a solid Center is there in the draft we take him and move Bentley back to Guard where he can maximize his potential.

RG-Montrae Holland- 24 yrs old- 4th round draft pick who is starting… I guess that makes me scratch my head at why Stinchcomb is still sitting. Holland hasn’t played well enough to not be spared his spot. However at 24 he deserves a chance to show his worth.

RG-Jamar Nesbit- 27 yrs old- Never really heard much about this guy and as a 27 yr old back up I probably never will. If he shows something in preseason or at practice that is good enough for me. However, you can never have to many good back ups on the OL.

RT-Victor Riley- 30 yrs old- Old, slow, and not playing well… I think I said that before. He was not what we were expecting when we let go of Roaf and when we lost Turley it was that much more of a glaring hole. OT is a spot we definitely need to be upgrading and hopefully we go with a semi youth movement.

RT-Spencer Folau- 31 yrs old- He has not been called on to play much with us the last 2 years and I don’t know if that is a good thing or a bad thing. He did sign a 3 year deal in March so I expect him around till that is up.


LDE-Charles Grant- 26 yrs old- One of the few bright spots on Defense, but his pass rush sometimes gets in the way of his defending the run. He has been known to over commit to a QB and run past a back. However, that will all come together with a little more game experience and I think he might have a Pro Bowl appearance waiting for him this year.

LDE-Tony Bryant- 28 yrs old- He averaged 5 sacks a year as a starter for Oakland. So having him as a back up is better than some. He is a veteran and although he isn’t a superstar it is never a bad thing to have a solid veteran.

LDT-Johnathan Sullivan- 23 yrs old- We all know this story. Kid has to much potential to cut, but he is playing pretty bad. Definitely not what we were expecting when we gave up 2 first round picks for him. I thought we were trading up to get Leftwich… He went a pick later… man I wish I was running this team.

LDT-Howard Green- 25 yrs old- FA former 6th round pick who has worked hard (yes some people on this team do) and now sees playing time on a consistent basis. I think he deserves a chance to stick around.

LDT-Rodney Leisle- 23 yrs old- A rookie who hasn’t played much, but I expect him to go to NFLE and hopefully develop nicely.

RDT-Brian Young- 27 yrs old- A solid guy who has been overlooked for his nonstop motor because the guys around him have just been horrible. He should be around for a while.

RDT- Shaun Smith- 23 yrs old- He is another young DT who hasn’t played much, but might develop nicely.

RDE-Darren Howard- 27 yrs old- He is likely gone at the end of the year. We already have a solid replacement. It is almost as if we were expecting this to happen. Will Smith has been decent for a rookie, but I think with a healthy Howard and Grant we could have a serious pass rush. Maybe we keep him and look for ways to still work Smith in.

RDE-Will Smith- 23 yrs old- Young promising DE who might be the replacement for Howard if he leaves at the end of the year. I would have liked to see him play a little better, but he hasn’t been as disappointing as some other first round draft picks.

SLB-Sedrick Hodge- 26 yrs old- His physical stats are amazing, but he has never played as well as I was hoping. I was very high on him when we drafted him. I remember getting upset when we traded down with Dallas because I thought we would miss him. Then I remember jumping up and down as we selected him. Since then I have been disappointed. He may be a solid backup and a LB with that speed is a solid special team guy… but we need to be looking for a LB in the draft.

SLB-James Allen- 25 yrs old- Allen is another LB who has potential that seems to not have developed. Blame the coaches or blame the players, but we still have another LB who just isn’t playing as good as he should be.

SLB-Roger Knight- 26 yrs old- Knight was another LB drafted in the 3rd round not by us but by the Steelers. He was cut by them and I guess we figured he was a good pick up. A young LB who can help teach our young LBs? Yeah I don’t know it doesn’t make much sense to me either… He will probably be gone next year.

MLB-Orlando Ruff- 28 yrs old- Ruff was a valuable pick up to be a solid backup. Since thrown into the starting line up he has played decent, but we need an upgrade here. Watson has been injured, but looked good in the first 4 games of the season…

MLB-Courtney Watson- 24 yrs old- Watson COULD be the answer for us at MLB, but his injury has slowed his developing process. Hopefully he gets healthy and has a solid second half the season. This will be nice to see so we can look to fill other holes in the draft and FA.

WLB-Derrick Rodgers- 33 yrs old- Rodgers has played solid, but is not a long term answer at WLB. However, he could be used to help develop a young guy brought in to take his place. He knows he can’t play forever. Why not help the team on your way out?

WLB-Colby Bockwoldt- 23 yrs old- Colby has not played much except on special teams. He is a young kid with some promise. I can see him going to NFLE and maybe coming back and fighting for a position. However, he is a 7th round draft pick and that usually means he was taken that late for a reason. A good work ethic and a team player maybe good, but not the talent you want for a WLB.

LCB-Mike McKenzie- 28 yrs old- We traded for him for a reason. He hasn’t looked great, but with a sub par pass rush you can’t expect him to cover all day. He is a shutdown corner and you never know what you will get with a draft pick.

LCB-Ashley Ambrose- 34 yrs old- Ambrose is old, slow, and definitely not playing like he used to. His experience puts him in a good place to make plays occasionally, but he gets beat to much to be on the field. His veteran leadership and advice could help out the younger corners, but we really don’t have any young corners.

LCB-Jason Craft- 28 yrs old- We tried to get Craft a few years back and we finally got him this year. I sure am glad we didn’t get him a few years ago. He has been a major disappointment. We need to be looking for some young corners who might not be as good but who have time to develop.

SS-Jay Bellamy-32 yrs old- He has been solid and one of our best players. Despite his lackluster pass coverage he makes up for that in run defense. Mel Mitchell should be on the brink of taking this position over. Bellamy may be trade bait?
SS-Mel Mitchell- 25 yrs old- Mel is a solid young guy waiting for his chance to take over at SS. I hope he gets a little more playing time towards the end of the season.

SS-Steve Gleason- 27 yrs old- Gleason is a special team stud who can play decent at either safety position. He is not a long term answer if one of the Safeties goes down, but getting rid of him would not be a good idea. His upside and special team ability make him a guy we keep around.

FS-Tebucky Jones- 30 yrs old- Tebucky hasn’t played great and we should be looking at people to bring in and compete for this position next year, if not someone to take over then a young guy who can develop for 2-3 years from now when Tebucky is gone.

RCB-Fakhir Brown- 27 yrs old- Fakhir is finally getting his chance and is playing decent. He is playing better than anyone else who had started earlier in the year. He however isn’t the shut down corner type. So we need to be looking at CB (don’t think we ever said that before have we?)

RCB-Fred Thomas- 31 yrs old- Age and size finally looks to be catching up to Freddy T. I don’t expect him back next year. He may be a decent 3rd or 4th corner but if we are paying him a high price then he needs to be let go.

RCB-Monty Montgomery- 30 yrs old- Monty is a 30 yr old back up with very limited experience (19 starts in 6 seasons) I think we should be looking for youth. I don’t expect him back.

P-Mitch Berger- 32 yrs old- He has been solid every game this year and might be representing us in the Pro Bowl. I think he should be with us for another 4-5 years at least.

PK-John Carney- 40 yrs old- On his last leg and we need to be looking for a kicker either in the off season or in the draft. Carney is consistent, but at 40 how much longer can he play?

LS-Kevin Houser- 27 yrs old- You only hear this guys name when he makes tackles covering punts… from a long snapper that is what you want. Keep him as long as he plays like he has been playing.

Practice Squad-Ben Archibald OT- 26 yrs old- Undrafted and I don’t expect him to make much of an impact.

Practice Squad-Fred Booker CB- 26 yrs old- Undrafted FA and I don’t expect him to make much of an impact either.

Practice Squad-Zach Hilton TE- 24 yrs old- Undrafted FA who looked good in preseason and hopefully develops nice in NFLE. He has the size and skills to be a solid TE.

Practice Squad-Kliff Kingsbury QB- 25 yrs old- He passed a lot in college and is the only young QB in our system. He might not develop into much, but right now he is all we have. I have no problem seeing him in NFLE and possibly on the team next year. If not I think we need to look for a young guy to bring in.

Keyuo Craver CB- Suspended- 24 yrs old- Craver could be better than what we have at corner and at 24 has the potential to be the man in the future. He just needs to handle the substance policy. Is he still with the team?

Cie Grant LB-IR 24 yrs old- A young LB who could be a solid backup.

Willie Whitehead- Physically Unable to Perform list- 31 yrs old- Whitehead is an aging veteran who has been solid, but with Will Smith around his pass rush specialist status is pretty much no longer needed. So I don’t see him being back next year..

Danno 11-09-2004 12:48 PM

Overhaul- One fans GM perspective
Great Job Syco. I agree with most of it.
I do have one question for everyone.

Other than Charles Grant, how many players have gotten significantly better since they came to New Orleans?

Has every player we picked up or drafted reached their peak before he gets here? Its a recurring theme with this staff. Very few players with unlimited potential actually develop.

I\'m curious what a quality staff could get out of athletic specimens like Hodge, Allen, Sullivan, Jones, McKenzie, Henderson, McAllister, Gardner, Stallworth, Mitchell or solid potential guys like Holland, Stinchcomb, Brown, Craft, and our lovable Boo.

I know they wouldn\'t all turn into studs, but I\'m sure many would improve more than they have so far.

WhoDat 11-09-2004 03:01 PM

Overhaul- One fans GM perspective
Now you\'re starting to sounds like me Danno! ;)


WR-Joe Horn- 32 yrs old- I don’t see us giving him a big contract. I know he has been the best WR we have had the last 3-4 years, but at 32 if we give him a big contract I think we regret that.
News flash - Joe Horn is under contract and not a FA. His cap number will be big last year. It was small this year. Even with a big number, he is probably worth it and I bet a new GM/coach chooses to keep him.

Danno 11-09-2004 03:39 PM

Overhaul- One fans GM perspective

Now you\'re starting to sounds like me Danno! ;)
Been singing that tune for quite a while now WhoDat.
You must have just started to pay attention! ;)

SycoSurfer 11-09-2004 03:53 PM

Overhaul- One fans GM perspective
I didnt know the contract numbers for every player and when I asked about them no one gave me a source. If you know one I would appreciate it.

Im not saying we will cut him, but he has been talking about a new contract and I dont think he needs it. If he is under contract then let him finish it out and then when its up let him go. He will see that noone will give him the money he wants and come back to us for a decent price. I like Joe Horn. He is one of the best players on the team, but I think he thinks he is better than he is. Right now I would keep him, but not for 3-4 years. He will be 33 at the start of next season and anything more than a 2 year contract would probably be to much.

Name me some 32-35 year old Wideouts who you think can still play...

Marvin Harrison 32 is having an off year even with Manning playing outstanding. (by off year I mean his projected receptions and yards are down) Projected 90 rec. 1132 yards down from last years 94 rec. 1272 yards in 15 games and 143 rec. 1722 yards the year before...

Rod Smith 34 has seen his production drop each of the last 3 years.

Jimmy Smith 35 who is having a decent year, but not like he had in his late 20s.

Keyshawn Johnson 32 He hasnt performed much lately.

The only WR in the 30s you can say who is playing good is Terell Owens, but he is only 30. Lets see how he is in 3 years. Besides that do you think Joe Horn is a Terrell Owens callibur WR?

Danno 11-09-2004 04:07 PM

Overhaul- One fans GM perspective
Syco I agree with you.
I\'d love to keep Horn but not at Randy Moss / Marvin Harrison type money.

I don\'t know the figures either but I\'ve heard he\'s gonna be WAY costly.

The perfect scenario is we renegotiate with him and pay him what he\'s worth. Thats a win-win. I hope he retires a Saint.


dberce1 11-09-2004 04:08 PM

Overhaul- One fans GM perspective
Very good post sir. I like to see someone take the time and effort. Touchee\'

WhoDat 11-09-2004 06:36 PM

Overhaul- One fans GM perspective

he has been talking about a new contract and I dont think he needs it.
When did he ask for more money or to renegociate. He\'s looking at a potentially huge payday next season, why would he even bring up money? I haven\'t seen anything about Joe wanting anything but a new coach and a new QB... hehehe...


I\'d love to keep Horn but not at Randy Moss / Marvin Harrison type money.
I don\'t know that I necessarily disagree with this, but it\'s interesting that some were so willing to sign a completely unproven QB to top 5 money and defend him tooth and nail when he played more like a top 15 or top 12 QB, but a guy who over the last 4 years has been ONE OF THE BEST 5 or 6 WRs in the league doesn\'t deserve to get paid top 15 money. How in th hell does that make sense??? He\'s old? SO WHAT? Is he playing like a top 10 WR? YES, LOOK AT THE STATS. Who cares if he\'s 25 or 55? If he can play like a top 10 or even 15 WR then I think he\'s worth what we\'re paying him... which coincidentally, if memory serves, is less next season in his most expensive year under contract than AB makes in an AVERAGE year. Saints fans are jacked in the head... all this losing must have finally made you guys lose your damn minds. :) kidding.

CHACHING 11-09-2004 07:31 PM

Overhaul- One fans GM perspective
WhoDat is right....Horn is only making about 7 hunred grand this year and playing with mad heart.......we gotta keep Horn as long as he\'s able to play.................I don\'t think he\'s gonna demand \"Harrison Type\" money after this year............Hope Horn and Deuce retire as Saints........(ching) :D

SycoSurfer 11-10-2004 01:28 AM

Overhaul- One fans GM perspective
posted June 2, 2003

WR Joe Horn
Wide receiver Joe Horn has officially signed a new contract, effective immediately through the 2005 season. Horn returned to practice in time for the start of the team\'s coaching sessions.
Earlier, WWL and NOPF\'s Kenny Wilkerson provided exclusive details of Horn\'s new contract, a $13.1 million three-year deal that includes a $6 million signing bonus. His base salaries will be $800,000 in 2003, $800,000 in 2004, and $4 million in 2005 with a roster bonus of $1.5 million before the 2005 season.

The new contract replaces the final two years of Horn\'s old contract, a five year deal signed before the 2000 season. Before the new deal, Horn was due in excess of $2 million in each of the final two years of his contract in base salary. The new contract adds one season to the deal, making it effective through 2005 season when Horn will be 34 years old. The increase in pay will push Horn\'s earnings into the NFL\'s Top 10 receivers, estimated in the $5 million per season range.

With a new deal in hand, Horn ended his holdout. Horn skipped the first minicamp of this offseason as well as the first minicamp of last year\'s minicamp, both in protest about his salary. Over the past three season, Horn has put together the best receiving performance in team history, and as an individual receiver outperformed both Donte Stallworth and Jerome Pathon combined in 2002.

His base salary is 800,000 this year, but 4 million next. His signing bonus depending on how we spread it out and his roster bonus push that closer to 6 or 7 million. I think we need to renegotiate if we want to keep him cause at 34 he will not be worth that kind of money. At least I dont think he will be.

[Edited on 10/11/2004 by SycoSurfer]

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