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-   -   WHAT IF? Jimmy Graham gets WR Designatin? (http://blackandgold.com/saints/64440-what-if-jimmy-graham-gets-wr-designatin.html)

hagan714 02-22-2014 08:14 AM

WHAT IF? Jimmy Graham gets WR Designatin?
 
Question put out the B&G family.

It is reported Graham lined up as a tight end 33% of the time, “in the slot” 45% of the time, and as an outside receiver on 22% of his plays. Based on ESPN Stats

Granted there are a ton of fine hairs to split here especially in the slot. How close to the OT does he line up and on the line vs off the line of scrimmage and on and on and on. So lets say he wins here is the question

What would you do if Jimmy Graham gets the WR Designation from the NFL?

- Tag for wide receiver is projected to be 11.5 to 11.7 million, while the number for tight ends is around 6.7 million

- Contract with $11 million tender based on the average salary of guys like Calvin Johnson and Andre Johnson.


Good article on this topic at

Jimmy Graham, Dennis Pitta, and the Tight End Franchise Tag | The Big Lead

lee909 02-22-2014 08:20 AM

Re: WHAT IF? Jimmy Graham gets WR Designatin?
 
Its difficult and imo the front office should be able to get clarification how he would be tag prior to tagging him.At WR levels I would be going the non exclusive option as that is far too much. I wouldn't like to be paying him anything over 8ml a year.

Jamessr 02-22-2014 08:23 AM

Re: WHAT IF? Jimmy Graham gets WR Designatin?
 
I don't want to pay thru the nose for the guy. He isn't the "beast" he used to be and people can easily remove him from the game now. Although it takes a good DB... but it can be done.

lee909 02-22-2014 08:27 AM

Re: WHAT IF? Jimmy Graham gets WR Designatin?
 
The other way to look at that is that whatever CB is line upped with Jimmy isn't on another WR. Its up to others to make the opposition pay.

hagan714 02-22-2014 08:30 AM

Re: WHAT IF? Jimmy Graham gets WR Designatin?
 
one ten million dollar a year man is enough. look at the complication it causes with the cap. i hate to lose him but i am sure they have what if feelers out there.

ChrisXVI 02-22-2014 08:36 AM

Re: WHAT IF? Jimmy Graham gets WR Designatin?
 
Let him go. He's disappeared when we've needed him most.

Danno 02-22-2014 09:07 AM

Re: WHAT IF? Jimmy Graham gets WR Designatin?
 
We'll cave and overpay, and overpay a lot.

alleycat_126 02-22-2014 09:27 AM

Re: WHAT IF? Jimmy Graham gets WR Designatin?
 
This is a BS argument that is drummed up by the media to make and sensationalize a normal contract dispute..... LOL... If this is the case many defenders could claim the position where they could claim the best paycheck.... in the end... He is a TE.... Loomis won't overpay for his services and if they won't budge on their position the Saints will get two first round picks

biloxi-indian 02-22-2014 09:31 AM

Re: WHAT IF? Jimmy Graham gets WR Designatin?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lee909 (Post 578975)
Its difficult and imo the front office should be able to get clarification how he would be tag prior to tagging him.At WR levels I would be going the non exclusive option as that is far too much. I wouldn't like to be paying him anything over 8ml a year.

The response from the "League Office" will be to refer the Saints FO to the CBA.

Sazwa2134 02-22-2014 09:59 AM

Re: WHAT IF? Jimmy Graham gets WR Designatin?
 
We should do a non exclusive franchise and try to get two first round picks. I think that is the best move for the saints because I think if we get a good enough pick a guy like Eric Ebron would be great. He is a Vernon Davis like tight end with his great speed.

Euphoria 02-22-2014 10:16 AM

Re: WHAT IF? Jimmy Graham gets WR Designatin?
 
He won't... he will get the tweener designation.

This has been done before where a TE was able to not get the designation but he got more money to where it is almost or might as well give him that designation.

rezburna 02-22-2014 11:18 AM

Re: WHAT IF? Jimmy Graham gets WR Designatin?
 
Said it before, say it again.....if he's considered a receiver, he's not top 10 at that position. Thus, making him not worthy of the franchise tag in the first place. He's top 2 at TE. He should get about $8.5 million a year. $11 million? Lmfao!

papz 02-22-2014 11:40 AM

Re: WHAT IF? Jimmy Graham gets WR Designatin?
 
Mike Wallace isn't top 10 at his position and he got paid 60 over 5. The fact of the matter is we need Graham and regardless of what position they view him at, he's going to get paid... and we're going to pay him. Gronk gets paid 53 over 6 years and with inflation and the salary cap increase, Graham getting 60/6 is fair market value. Is he worth it? Obviously it's debatable... but it doesn't matter. We need him and he's an intricate piece to our team. Now that doesn't mean we should hand him an empty check... but if we meet half way between both tags, it should be fair for both sides.

Rell&Gold 02-22-2014 01:01 PM

Re: WHAT IF? Jimmy Graham gets WR Designatin?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamessr (Post 578976)
I don't want to pay thru the nose for the guy. He isn't the "beast" he used to be and people can easily remove him from the game now. Although it takes a good DB... but it can be done.

Or does it take him having a torn plantar fasciitis

Rell&Gold 02-22-2014 01:03 PM

Re: WHAT IF? Jimmy Graham gets WR Designatin?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rezburna (Post 579013)
Said it before, say it again.....if he's considered a receiver, he's not top 10 at that position. Thus, making him not worthy of the franchise tag in the first place. He's top 2 at TE. He should get about $8.5 million a year. $11 million? Lmfao!

His numbers clearly put him up there with any top ten reciever

Utah_Saint 02-22-2014 01:08 PM

Re: WHAT IF? Jimmy Graham gets WR Designatin?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamessr (Post 578976)
I don't want to pay thru the nose for the guy. He isn't the "beast" he used to be and people can easily remove him from the game now. Although it takes a good DB... but it can be done.


Just my opinion, but leading the league in TD receptions would show that it's NOT easy to remove him from the game and that there are very few teams that can do it.

Schmohams 02-22-2014 02:33 PM

Re: WHAT IF? Jimmy Graham gets WR Designatin?
 
Graham does not give it his all on the field. Plain and Simple, and when you do that you can't get better and you can't catch passes on the Seahawks or on the Patriots. Jimmy plays to survive, he doesn't sweat blood and tears, he doesn't run as hard as he can all the time. I say sign and trade.

alleycat_126 02-22-2014 03:41 PM

Re: WHAT IF? Jimmy Graham gets WR Designatin?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Schmohams (Post 579044)
Graham does not give it his all on the field. Plain and Simple, and when you do that you can't get better and you can't catch passes on the Seahawks or on the Patriots. Jimmy plays to survive, he doesn't sweat blood and tears, he doesn't run as hard as he can all the time. I say sign and trade.

I am all about being politically correct and not making enemies with people who want the same thing I do, but this is a horse**** take.... There hasn't been one damn Jimmy Graham complaint during his whole rookie deal campaign until now. You can't say he doesn't play with passion, or give it all on every play..... you can't say he doesn't play in pain... You can say he doesn't block well...... HE DOESN'T GET PAID TO BLOCK, HE'S NOT THE BLOCKING TE..... TONY GONZOLEZ MADE A CARRIER OF NOT BLOCKING WELL AND HIS ON HIS WAY TO CANTON All you can do is point to 3 games and say he should get paid because of these 3 games... One of the games one of the best corners in the league was on him.... And the two Seattle games they did the same thing to two other TE's in the same class as Jimmy..... Shut up, Suck it up and pay the man....

halloween 65 02-22-2014 04:23 PM

Re: WHAT IF? Jimmy Graham gets WR Designatin?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Schmohams (Post 579044)
Graham does not give it his all on the field. Plain and Simple, and when you do that you can't get better and you can't catch passes on the Seahawks or on the Patriots. Jimmy plays to survive, he doesn't sweat blood and tears, he doesn't run as hard as he can all the time. I say sign and trade.

Agree with you on all but the sign and trade, I would just let him walk, he might do well somewher else but he might not either. We could get another TE + some other posisions for that type of money and that isn't a bad thing in my book. He definitly don't sweae blood and tears and that is what is needed. I also think Brees uses him as a crutch wat to much and it hurts our play. I also think another TE (Shockey type that plays with passion) will make Graham a forgotten man in New Orleans.

rezburna 02-22-2014 05:01 PM

Re: WHAT IF? Jimmy Graham gets WR Designatin?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rell&Gold (Post 579027)
His numbers clearly put him up there with any top ten reciever

The year he plays all his snaps lined up as a WR and puts up the same numbers I'll agree.

rezburna 02-22-2014 05:03 PM

Re: WHAT IF? Jimmy Graham gets WR Designatin?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by papz (Post 579015)
Mike Wallace isn't top 10 at his position and he got paid 60 over 5. The fact of the matter is we need Graham and regardless of what position they view him at, he's going to get paid... and we're going to pay him. Gronk gets paid 53 over 6 years and with inflation and the salary cap increase, Graham getting 60/6 is fair market value. Is he worth it? Obviously it's debatable... but it doesn't matter. We need him and he's an intricate piece to our team. Now that doesn't mean we should hand him an empty check... but if we meet half way between both tags, it should be fair for both sides.

When he left the Steelers it was pretty arguable he was. But even still, for the sake of your point, lets say he wasn't. What did the Steelers do? That 4.3 forty is down there taking L's in Miami.

Utah_Saint 02-22-2014 05:15 PM

Re: WHAT IF? Jimmy Graham gets WR Designatin?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by halloween 65 (Post 579048)
I also think another TE (Shockey type that plays with passion) will make Graham a forgotten man in New Orleans.

Just so happens the Saints did have a "Shockey type"

In three years with the Saints, Shockey gained 1406 yards and 6 touchdowns.
In the last three years, Graham has gained 3507 yards and 36 touchdowns.

And when it comes to playing with "blood and sweat", in those three years, Shockey played 38 games while Graham played 47 games in the last three seasons.

exile 02-22-2014 05:43 PM

Re: WHAT IF? Jimmy Graham gets WR Designatin?
 
I'm so glad Loomis is around. He's sane. Unlike some of these comments. :mrgreen:

voodooido 02-22-2014 08:29 PM

Re: WHAT IF? Jimmy Graham gets WR Designatin?
 
If he does get 10 mil a year the saints will be screwed for the next 4 years. You can not pay Drew and a TE that much. We can do without JG, we can't make it without Drew.

blackangold 02-22-2014 08:38 PM

Re: WHAT IF? Jimmy Graham gets WR Designatin?
 
I don't get the fans with an argument of needing Graham. Is he a great football player? Yes, but ill argue we don't "need" Graham at all. Occasionally I actually think Graham being over targeted by Brees hurts our team.

Remember fellow Saints fans we have had the top offense many years before Jimmy came along. I guarantee you if Jimmy left we would still have a top 4 offense. So is Jimmy worth the money? Yes, but not to this team; we don't 'need' him.

Saintaintso 02-22-2014 10:00 PM

Re: WHAT IF? Jimmy Graham gets WR Designatin?
 
Trade him for the 8th and pick Khalil or Clowney if available ...

rezburna 02-22-2014 10:32 PM

Re: WHAT IF? Jimmy Graham gets WR Designatin?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by blackangold (Post 579064)
I don't get the fans with an argument of needing Graham. Is he a great football player? Yes, but ill argue we don't "need" Graham at all. Occasionally I actually think Graham being over targeted by Brees hurts our team.

Remember fellow Saints fans we have had the top offense many years before Jimmy came along. I guarantee you if Jimmy left we would still have a top 4 offense. So is Jimmy worth the money? Yes, but not to this team; we don't 'need' him.

Bingo.

ScottF 02-22-2014 10:40 PM

Re: WHAT IF? Jimmy Graham gets WR Designatin?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rell&Gold (Post 579027)
His numbers clearly put him up there with any top ten reciever

No, he was 15th in yards, 13 in catches. VERY big difference if you are talking franchise tag numbers

ChrisXVI 02-22-2014 10:44 PM

Re: WHAT IF? Jimmy Graham gets WR Designatin?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by blackangold (Post 579064)
I don't get the fans with an argument of needing Graham. Is he a great football player? Yes, but ill argue we don't "need" Graham at all. Occasionally I actually think Graham being over targeted by Brees hurts our team.

Remember fellow Saints fans we have had the top offense many years before Jimmy came along. I guarantee you if Jimmy left we would still have a top 4 offense. So is Jimmy worth the money? Yes, but not to this team; we don't 'need' him.


Fantastic post... Spot on. If we pay him $10 million/year or more then I will be very disappointed in Loomis.

rezburna 02-22-2014 11:08 PM

Re: WHAT IF? Jimmy Graham gets WR Designatin?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottF (Post 579076)
No, he was 15th in yards, 13 in catches. VERY big difference if you are talking franchise tag numbers

Those numbers appear to be out of the top 10. Interesting! I saw this guy, his name was Rez Burna, and he said Jimmy Graham wouldn't be top 10 at receiver.... intriguing.

halloween 65 02-23-2014 05:10 AM

Re: WHAT IF? Jimmy Graham gets WR Designatin?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Utah_Saint (Post 579053)
Just so happens the Saints did have a "Shockey type"

In three years with the Saints, Shockey gained 1406 yards and 6 touchdowns.
In the last three years, Graham has gained 3507 yards and 36 touchdowns.

And when it comes to playing with "blood and sweat", in those three years, Shockey played 38 games while Graham played 47 games in the last three seasons.

Shockey when he was with us was on the downhill slide in his career, but I'll take a Shockey in his prime before I would ever take Graham.

lee909 02-23-2014 05:18 AM

Re: WHAT IF? Jimmy Graham gets WR Designatin?
 
I'm not saying i wouldn't let Graham go as if the money isnt right i think you have too and i know that Shockey played as a more traditional TE but even in his best three years his stats are not a patch on Graham.
45 Games-2189 yards-20 TDs.

halloween 65 02-23-2014 05:39 AM

Re: WHAT IF? Jimmy Graham gets WR Designatin?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lee909 (Post 579095)
I'm not saying i wouldn't let Graham go as if the money isnt right i think you have too and i know that Shockey played as a more traditional TE but even in his best three years his stats are not a patch on Graham.
45 Games-2189 yards-20 TDs.

Yes you are right but what would the stats looked like if he was in our system the entire time. We will never know. Shockey played with heart, I just don't see that in Graham. Graham sometimes thinks he should get a flag thrown like he's still on a basketball court looking for a fowl and doesn't try to get open after that, gives up. The man towers over DB's and doesn't play pysicall, to me you can't teach that either you have it or you don't.

hagan714 02-23-2014 05:55 AM

Re: WHAT IF? Jimmy Graham gets WR Designatin?
 
smart move is tag him no matter the cost

entertain any and all offers on a trade at this point.

if no trade is out there you have to cut/trade any player you need to make it work.

wheel and deal in the draft to plug holes.

simply put Graham is too valuable of a trading chip to let walk.

now if you can not move him in 2014 you can fall back on the fact that in 2015 Drew can redo his contract and the cap will go up. so a long term deal is possible.

but the 2014 season is in the tank unless you can pull off an unbelievable draft and obtain more picks than we have now and get some solid day one starters. This is one of the best drafts in years. starts can be had into the 4th round. so if the saints go this route the draft is there to make it work. Now with 20 million tied up on offense the saints must draft OL to protect that investment. Because we will not be able to sign our FA OL. i just do not see that in the cards.

the cuts will be many and will hurt.
No FA signings
The draft will be key to salvaging the 2014 season and saving this team

TheOak 02-23-2014 06:00 AM

Re: WHAT IF? Jimmy Graham gets WR Designatin?
 
His momma called him a Tight End, imma call him a Tight End.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/23/ysabyget.jpg

halloween 65 02-23-2014 06:24 AM

Re: WHAT IF? Jimmy Graham gets WR Designatin?
 
All of you are up to early, it's my bedtime after night shift, got to go, bye!! Oh by the way that was funny.

Utah_Saint 02-23-2014 12:37 PM

Re: WHAT IF? Jimmy Graham gets WR Designatin?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottF (Post 579076)
No, he was 15th in yards, 13 in catches. VERY big difference if you are talking franchise tag numbers

Since his rookie season, he's 8th in receiving yards and number 1 in touchdowns.

TheOak 02-24-2014 08:06 AM

Re: WHAT IF? Jimmy Graham gets WR Designatin?
 
Sign and trade is not even remotely an option.

While "yes you could", you could also gnaw off your leg because you do not like the way your socks look.

Whether you Tag him in any format, or sign him to a contract he would agree to, you will get stuck with a large amount of dead money.

A tag value is guaranteed for 1 year and guaranteed money becomes dead money as soon as you trade him.

Example: Tag him for 11.7m, trade him, you now have 11.7m of dead cap and no player. Whether you get draft picks or a player for him you then have to sign who ever it is and that will cost you at least 1.7m (Vaccaro/Ingram rookie cap hit)being your total cap consumption for this lunacy to at least 13.4M...

Long term contract:
If he agrees to a Gronkowski contract, you give him 13m in guaranteed money. So when you trade him after he signs you have 13m in dead money and you still have to pay someone to replace him adding 1.5Mish and you just cost your self 14.5m in 2014 for a 1.5m player.

A TE tag would cost you 8m for a 1.5m player...

Where did all this sign then trade talk come from? Its Absolute lunacy.

Its sinking $5k in car stereo into your car then trading it in at a dealership. You are left with nothing but a bill.

TheOak 02-24-2014 11:26 AM

Re: WHAT IF? Jimmy Graham gets WR Designatin?
 
We now have 2 polls on the same topic, both containing options that would never come to fruition.

Rugby Saint II 02-24-2014 11:34 AM

Re: WHAT IF? Jimmy Graham gets WR Designatin?
 
I like Jimmy and I want to keep him, but I don't feel like we can pay him WR type of money. Drew and a few other big contracts have us limited.


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