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Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; I definitely agree that the team comes first and no one player should compromise that philosophy with the exception of a franchise quarterback. We should be fine functioning w/o Graham if the organization feels that way. We'll manufacture that offense ...

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Old 02-26-2014, 03:44 PM   #71
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Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?

I definitely agree that the team comes first and no one player should compromise that philosophy with the exception of a franchise quarterback. We should be fine functioning w/o Graham if the organization feels that way. We'll manufacture that offense somewhere else like we've always been able to do. With that said, my main thing is that we don't need to. We can sign Graham and still can go after another key piece. I just can't stand the fact people are harping on this 12 million dollars THAT'S NOT HAPPENING. He may not even get 10 million dollars... though I do think that's the number.

Stop acting like the some scrub because he had a bad game against Seattle. Boo frickin' hoo... we lost to the best team in the league and Graham didn't have a good game. Get over it already. He's meant a lot to our offense these past few years and is considered an elite offensive player in this league.

Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.

All little common sense goes a long way.
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Old 02-26-2014, 11:46 PM   #72
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Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?

Originally Posted by rezburna View Post
Exactly. I wish I would've seen the machine in the playoffs. Or against New England. Or the Jets. Or Carolina. Etc..
Against the Jets he had 116 yards and two touchdowns, In the two games against Carolina he had 131 yards and 3 touchdowns.

And if he's being taken out of so many games, how did he end up with over 1200 yards for the season?

And if every one knows how to shut him out of games, how did he get 16 touchdowns? Which receivers can't get shut out? How many scores did they get?
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Old 02-27-2014, 04:15 AM   #73
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Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?

Originally Posted by TheOak View Post
I may have not been clear when i explained it previously in another thread.

Have you taken into account that "tagged" is meaningless unless Jimmy agrees to it? If he doesn't sign that tag he is not tagged. You cant stop him from walking, he either walks to another team or walks home as a holdout.

If he signs a TE tag of 6.7m or a WR tag of 11.6M, as soon as you trade him you will have no Jimmy graham but will have either 6.7m or 11.6m in dead money. A tag is guaranteed money, it does not follow the player.

Your scenario leaves you with no Jimmy Graham and your cap space went from +7m to either dead broke or 4m over the cap. Either way what do you have to sign what you traded him for?
as long as you tag him - he is it! whether he agrees or not to sign it is another issue all together but he is tagged and can not sign with another team without our blessing. but he can look for deals all day long BUT his azz is ours till 2015.

If we win and gets tagged as TE he is stuck. now you have a year to work things out while he plays or he sits home for a year which makes him damage goods across the NFL

If he gets the WR tag numbers you appeal asap. drag it through the mud if you can till after the draft. teams are allotted time to react to such a decision.

or see if a reasonable deal can be reach
or a trading partner found
or bend over and take for a year and start cutting/trading players to keep graham. Then watch the dead cap money explode. or maybe not
Or then again you can always let him walk and accept the comp pick.

pick your poison

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Old 02-27-2014, 07:51 AM   #74
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Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?

I just don't want to see our team get wrapped up "with millions of dollars" in only a couple of players. I have no doubt that if a deal can get done, Loomis will get it done.

I just don't want us cutting our nose off despite our face.

To me, Jimmy isn't worth $12 Million a year.
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Old 02-27-2014, 08:40 AM   #75
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Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?

For me the question at hand is not JG's bad games, or his great games, its his utilization and how he has become the predictable crutch in regards to our receivers.

Compare our 2009 vs our 2013 seasons: (Arguably there was a lot more talent on the 2013 team)

2009
Receptions
Colston - 70
Henderson - 51
Shockey - 48
Bush - 47
Meachem - 45
P. Thomas - 39
D. Thomas - 35


2013
Receptions
Graham - 86
Thomas - 77
Colston - 75
Sproles - 71
Moore - 37
Stills -32

Its doesn't seem like a lot but it matters. I had to go down the list to 7 players in 2009 before I found one under 35 catches, in 2013 it was only 5.

In 2009 we spread the ball around a lot to our WRs, it was noted as one of our most valuable strategies. Move to 2013 and its Jimmy graham or RBs.

In 2009 we had 4 receivers over 45 receptions (3 were WR), in 2013 we have 2 receivers over 45 (1 is a WR).

So I interpret this as one of three possibilities.
1. Jimmy by default is making us too predictable and damaging our WR corps.
2. Our WR corps. is severely lacking and we are leaning on Jimmy and RBs.
3. We are Jimmy by default, with a weak corps of WRs, and Payton is using our RBs as if this were an arena league.

What ever it is it has hurt our long ball game.
20+ yard passing attempts
2009- 62 att / Comp% 58.7
2013 - 77 att / Comp% 40.3


Some would interpret the Comp% fall off as Drews accuracy but the trend doesnt support a major fall off in his arm strength or accuracy, it supports a steady decline in our receiving corps ability to catch the ball.
*Unless you are of the mind that Drew's arm was weaker and less accurate in 2007.

Drews long ball completion % 2007-2013

2007 - 33.3%
2008 - 45.3 %
2009 - 58.7%
2010 - 52.1%
2011 - 52.1%
2012 - 48.8%
2013 - 40.3%

We lost Meachem and Henderson in 2011-2012, our WR corps. has never regained the deep thread that it had mostly due to Meachem not being as good as Henderson and Joe Morgan never being on the field (he was the replacement deep threat).

I know I sort of went way off into left field with WRs in a TE thread but I will bring it back now. Leaning on Jimmy Graham has taken the focus off of our WR corps and it has hurt our offense by making us more predictable and Sean payton became lax in the development and building of our WRs... A huge part of why we won a SB.

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Old 02-27-2014, 08:43 AM   #76
 
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Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?

Originally Posted by Utah_Saint View Post
Against the Jets he had 116 yards and two touchdowns, In the two games against Carolina he had 131 yards and 3 touchdowns.

And if he's being taken out of so many games, how did he end up with over 1200 yards for the season?

And if every one knows how to shut him out of games, how did he get 16 touchdowns? Which receivers can't get shut out? How many scores did they get?
He did indeed ... it's just that he needs to be elite against elite teams as well, such as Seattle or NE. They provided the blueprint on how to defend him after he was in beastmode early in the year. Tony Gonzales still found ways to get open and block against these same teams. Hopefully Grambeaux will figure it out this year after he irons out his contract.
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Old 02-27-2014, 09:48 AM   #77
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Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?

Originally Posted by Danno View Post
Adios muchacho. Go fail to show up in big games elsewhere you moron.

No kidding. That would ruin this franchise for the next 5-10 years. We already have so much money tied up in Drew. That would be 2 players that take up what, almost 50% of our cap space?? Lets get a pick or sign and trade. This years draft is the deepest ever in regards to WR we can get someone just as good in the draft with the extra pick to take his place. That or a TE that can actually block sometimes.
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Old 02-27-2014, 09:49 AM   #78
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Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?

Originally Posted by SapperSaint View Post
I just don't want to see our team get wrapped up "with millions of dollars" in only a couple of players. I have no doubt that if a deal can get done, Loomis will get it done.

I just don't want us cutting our nose off despite our face.

To me, Jimmy isn't worth $12 Million a year.
He isn't worth $12 million a year. Everyone, including Jimmy and his agent know that. No team will pay that kind of money. So that point is moot.

The real question is what is he worth?

1) The TE tag is somewhere are $6.5 million a year right?

2) Gronk's contract is 8 years $55 million. Technically that's about $7 million a year. But only $13 million of it is guaranteed up to 2016 (with the addition of a $10 million option bonus if the Pats decide to take him on until 2020).

3) The WR tag is $11.5 million per year.

It's pretty easy to argue that JG is the best TE in the game. But he isn't a WR. So it would seem reasonable that something that's better than Gronk's contract, but less than a premier WR contract (Megatron, Fitzgerald) is in order.

JG is going to get tagged because neither side is going to cave to the other this early in the game. So honestly until the tag, the grievance, and the appeal are all done, JG's value cannot yet be determined. It's likely that if he's tagged as TE that the average salary will be closer to $8 million. If the WR tag stands after appeal, then that's an entirely different discussion.

SFIAH
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Old 02-27-2014, 10:12 AM   #79
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Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?

Originally Posted by Utah_Saint View Post
Against the Jets he had 116 yards and two touchdowns, In the two games against Carolina he had 131 yards and 3 touchdowns.

And if he's being taken out of so many games, how did he end up with over 1200 yards for the season?

And if every one knows how to shut him out of games, how did he get 16 touchdowns? Which receivers can't get shut out? How many scores did they get?
We played Carolina twice. You got me with the Jets though.

Thing is, I like Jimmy Graham. I like what he has the potential to be. But I don't see a TE ever deserving $12 million a year. I don't even see a receiver outside of Megatron deserving that.
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Old 02-27-2014, 10:31 AM   #80
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Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?

Originally Posted by Danno View Post
Adios muchacho. Go fail to show up in big games elsewhere you moron.

I completely agree. I'd sooner give Pierre Thomas 12 million dollars a year!

Jimmy Graham and his delusional agent are making me pissed. I hope he gets tagged as a tight end. The Saints are offering to make Jimmy the highest paid tight end in the league and he has rejected that offer. I'm tired of him.
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