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this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; JKool you will be proud of me for not taking the bait on the leadership importance....

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Old 12-07-2004, 08:16 PM   #181
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JKool you will be proud of me for not taking the bait on the leadership importance.
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Old 12-07-2004, 08:29 PM   #182
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\"who is better Farve or Brooks?\"
Oh brother, here we go again...

I stepped away from this Frankenstein\'s monster of a post when I thought we\'d said it all. Now we may have, officially.

- I sincerely hope Favre vs. Brooks isn\'t about to catch on again. Oh please no, not again...

- As for why we keep arguing that Brooks is bad, but so is the rest of the team, check out BMG\'s words of wisdom back on page 5 or so.

But really, all these are worthy arguments and this is a post for the ages. Fact is, we\'re still stuck with AB - regardless of the rest of our many troubles - unless someone is willing to take him off our hands. Were that to happen, we\'d still need a QB ... most of us have agreed Bouman is not the answer. I\'d like Jake Delhomme back, too (might as well go on the record as one of those guys!), but our present coaching staff, front office, etc. never asked me, and it\'s probably never going to happen. Every QB from Mike McMahon to Drew Brees has been argued here, but next year - whether we like it or not - our QB is overwhelmingly likely to be Aaron Brooks.

As someone else posted - \"He\'s got a great smile!\"


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Old 12-07-2004, 09:10 PM   #183
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I never weighed in on the Favre to Brooks comparison, but what the hey.

I think JKool is basically right, you can compare anyone you want. So when you compare the two guys what do you have?

Both are fairly mobile, big armed guys who seem to have most success when they are freelancing, bootlegs, etc. Both are pretty accomplished sandlot type players. Neither one comes across as meticulous students of the game. Both are pretty durable. Both practiced on the same field a few years back. Both throw for a lot of yards and a lot of TD\'s. Both have proven to be pretty good playing from behind (I\'m not prepared to put Brooks in John Elway type company here). Both of them have the nasty habit of just heaving the ball into coverage and costing their team the game. On paper and by the numbers, the guys are somewhat similar.

However, I think the differences are more striking and more telling.

1. The \"One Man Gang\" Factor--Favre has the capacity to carry a team on his back. During the superbowl years, Favre WAS that offense.
Brooks needs a supporting cast.

2. The Loyalty Factor--Favre\'s team reveres him. His guys would run through a brick wall for him. Even when Favre louses things up, no one minds because he\'s Brett Favre. After Favre\'s Dad died, Donald Driver pulled all the Green Bay WR\'s together and they promised each other, \"Whatever he puts in the air, we WILL catch.\"
Brooks doesn\'t seem to inspire a similar level of devotion from his team. Now I can already hear you saying, \"Who cares if they like him, they should do their friggin job and block or catch.\" But we\'ve all had jobs for bosses we liked and bosses we didn\'t. Favre seems to inspire people to go the extra mile, Brooks doesn\'t.

3. The Passion Factor--Favre seems to have fun. They guys who play with him don\'t miss this and seem to have a good time too.
Brooks seems to be doing a job. Brooks makes comments like--\"I\'m just here to do my job and then leave.\"

4. The Leadership Factor--Favre might as well operate without a head coach. The Packers are Brett Favre\'s team.
Brooks needs a head coach to call the shots. The Saints are a lot of things, but they have never been AB\'s team.

5. The Responsibility Factor--Favre takes the blame for his mistakes. He doesn\'t blame drops, protection, or route running.
Brooks seems, at best, unwilling to take blame and, at worst, gets into finger pointing.

6. The Winning Factor--Favre has won about 65% of his games or so. Usually, he has won with a weak cast around him. Can you imagine what Favre\'s numbers would be like if he\'d ever had a Joe Horn type WR? Green Bay went for a lot of years with a weak running game and then went to a weak receiving corps, a strong defense to a pourous defense. Through it all, Favre wins.
Brooks is at best mediocre with a much stronger supporting cast around him, at least on the offense.

7. The Cap Factor--Favre makes more money than god, but when the team is in cap trouble, Favre reworks his deal to give some space. His deal is so back loaded now that he\'s never going to see that money, but you never hear about money with him. Even when he came off the bench to replace an injured starter.
Brooks is probably going to give us a shot at showing whether the team comes before his check if we try to keep him this off-season. I\'m not optimistic about this. My gut feeling is that Brooks is a prima donna, but let\'s all hope I\'m wrong on this if we get stuck with him.

8. The Role Factor--Favre is a football player. That\'s all he is and all he wants to be. He doesn\'t represent anything other than the Green Bay Packers. He has no agenda other than winning games. For Favre it\'s simple, go out and win the superbowl.
Brooks seems a bit confused as to his role. From remarks he\'s made and things he does, I wonder if he gets too far into his role as a \"black\" QB, rather than just a winning QB. It seems like there\'s a chip on his shoulder about it.

Anyway, those are just some quick observations. The guys are similar on paper, but they couldn\'t be more different when it comes to intangibles.

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Old 12-07-2004, 10:17 PM   #184
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BMG, you forgot Favre is a first ballot hall of famer, Brooks doesn\'t even know where Canton is. Also, I guess you could compare anything you want, but who would listen if you compare a Mercedes to a Yugo? i.e. Favre to Brooks?
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Old 12-08-2004, 05:20 AM   #185
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Subguy, I am proud of you! However, that is usually the case.

Mutineer, I can\'t help myself, please forgive me. Not only does he have a great smile, but he may beat you with his eyes... :shockedbig: Ok, I know it is kind of lame, but I think that repetition is the key to humor...

BMG, you have become one of my favorite people, and I think that was a terrific analysis. I\'m glad we mostly agree these days (you\'d make my life hard otherwise, I\'m sure).

Whodi, you know I love ya bud. I\'m pretty sure that we more or less agree on this point. You can\'t blame me though for taking the oportunity to make the point though, can you? Also, I\'m pretty sure that you agree with my general point - competition doesn\'t OBVIOUSLY help someone.

"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks :cool:
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Old 12-08-2004, 07:39 AM   #186
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AB and Favre both play QB in the NFL...that\'s about where the comparison ends. I think it is a huge injustice to Favre to even suggest that AB is in the same category as him. Like SW said, Favre will be a first ballot hall-of-famer, Brooks won\'t even get on the ballot...unless things change soon for him. I agree with BMG that the biggest difference between the two is that Favre\'s teammates would kill for him, whereas AB\'s teammates would probably like to kill him.
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Old 12-08-2004, 10:50 AM   #187
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Kool, we definitely agree on the point, and we both seem to feel AB would wilt and pout and complain(oh he\'s done that already, my bad). lol I just didn\'t like the choice of who was used for the comparison, but the point was still valid, and we do agree on the outcome.
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Old 12-08-2004, 11:28 AM   #188
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Old 12-08-2004, 12:00 PM   #189
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Just so this topic might make it to 8 pages...

1st possession
1st down-Perfect pass to Joe Horn, DROP
2nd down-Deuce up the middle for 3
3rd down-Perfect pass to Deuce, DROP

2nd possession
1st down-Deuce to right for 2
2nd down-Pass to Deuce, DROP
3rd down-Brooks scrambles for 7.

3rd Possession
1st down-Deuce left for 3
2nd down-Deuce fumbles, another TD Carolina

Yup, I think Aaron may be part of the problem, and I\'m not being sarcastic. I remember seeing Dan Marino screaming and yelling, spit flying from his mouth, face fuming red and freaking smoke coming out of his ears when his teammates screwed up. Even walking toward the sidelines he\'s chewing Clayton/Duper/Nathan/Carter a new one. As his pathetic defense is out there stopping no one he\'s still on the sidelines jawing. They immediately re-grouped and stopped F\'ing up. It didn\'t matter if it was hall of famer Dwight Stevenson, he\'d get in their face, and they respected him, and they responded.

None of the 1st 3 possessions point directly at Brooks being the problem. But his lack of holding HIS offense accountable for such horrid play speaks to his leadership deficiencies.

That wouldn\'t be as big an issue if we had a coach or coordinator that took the role of on-field disciplinarian. But that ownership isn\'t coming from anywhere, and thats a problem. Put Brooks on a team with a solid disciplinarian (like Tuna) and I personally think his production would improve dramatically.
Just my two cents.

United We Stand,
Divided We Fall
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Old 12-08-2004, 12:21 PM   #190
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Danno, accountability is generally lacking all around from this team. AB and the coaches, the main people who should be holding offensive players accountable, do not. Deuce doesn\'t, but whoever expected he would? Even when he was going to the pro bowl he just went out there and led by example. What I do find funny is the players who take the balme for losses few as they are, are the ones busting their arses. Charles Grant, LeCharles, Brian Young. They take the blame, when players who are doing half what they are doing aren\'t. What kinda screwed up deal is that?
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